Isn't Windows 8 the start of something great?

[SekaiStory]

I've noticed there are many hate threads on Windows 8, with people downright disrespecting the OS. As an app developer for the Windows Runtime and daily user of the Release Preview with mouse and keyboard I want to do the opposite in this post and tell you why I love Windows 8.

UI

Windows 8 is all about change and that change is the Metro environment. While Metro is certainly touch-first, it works well with mouse/keyboard, and some apps look absolutely great.

Many people seem to hate how Microsoft crammed the ?Tablet UI? in our throats but I find it a clever move. No OS has changed how apps essentially worked on traditional PCs (windowed, resize buttons, dull controls, static icons,?). With the Metro UI, people will have to learn a lot of new gimmicks. Many people desperately want that start menu back, or want the Metro environment shut off. I don?t get them. People should embrace change if it?s for the better and give things a chance. I had trouble using the Developer Preview, but I?m blasting through the Release Preview now getting things done faster and loving some Metro style apps.

This day and age everything that?s different seems to be regarded as bad. I see friends automatically installing Firefox/Chrome without them being aware of IE9, I see friends going to Google instead of Bing. When I ask them why, they reply something along the lines of ?Internet Explorer sucks, Bing sucks?, without them knowing about any of the features. People are having similar reactions with Windows 8, not knowing what it is. The only thing they know is that a tablet running Windows 8 crashed during the Surface announcement, because that YouTube video went viral on Reddit or some other site. Microsoft isn?t cool, it?s disregarded and won?t be given a fair chance unless it has an Apple or Google logo. Microsoft barely makes it into the news and when it does it talks about ?Microsoft announced (x), trying to catch up to [apple product here]?, together with a lot of footage from the Apple product, and few of Microsoft.

I fear that it?s too late to change anything about that impression, partly because Microsoft hasn?t been very forthcoming to the general audience of Windows 8, and their corporate identity isn?t exactly inspiring.

On the note of the UI, it?s certainly premature but together with the pre-installed apps it?s pretty powerful. For now. Microsoft can?t wait another 3 years to update the framework or add features, but I think they know that. I?d love to see an improved file picker/save dialog, 2 snapped apps for large screens, a decent Metro desktop, and some improvements to built-in apps.

In my dreams, and this will never happen, I?d like better blending between desktop apps and metro apps. I?d love to see desktop apps being chromeless and appearing in the multitasking bar on the left, with the ability to close them by dragging them down. The taskbar and desktop mode should be removed and desktop apps just run on top of Metro apps.

I really love how people will be able to buy a PC, and thanks to the built-in apps/Flash be ready within minutes to get great experience (without needing to download an email client or Flash installer)

Back-end

As a developer who invested many hours in learning WPF and Silverlight for Windows Phone, I?m having a blast developing for Windows 8. I?m able to port lots of my code. WinRT neatly integrates with C# and feels really great to use. The APIs feel familiar and expose some great functionality like easily roam settings or set up data sharing. The templates are handy and often a good starting point. Rich online documentation is also super handy.

Hands-down, WinRT might be the coolest platform EVER. It feels like home if you?re familiar with WPF/Silverlight/XAML, is super powerful and really extensible, making me believe business apps (like Photoshop, 3DSMax, Office) can be rewritten to a Metro app. What surprised me most is how much online information is available, from tutorials to guidelines, blog posts to case studies to an entire collection of sample apps. Together with the Windows Store and possibly having the largest customer base on day 1 makes WinRT the coolest framework.

I?m seeing lots of badly written software out there, often with a crappy UI, others rely on Access/Win32 as environment/API. Many people [unlike us] don?t have lots of IT knowledge but have to learn awkward gimmicks or awkward UIs to get around. PCs are generally still hard to use for some and that?s why they?re transitioning to tablets. I think Windows 8 is, like iOS, easy to use and bringing the UI to PCs as primary interface might result in something great in the future. It?s on all levels better, easier, faster and more powerful than what iOS or Android has to offer today, and I really hope Metro becomes mainstream.

Bottom line about Apps is that there won?t be any bloatware-quality apps, and they will finally look good. The technologies Microsoft carefully crafted over the years can finally be put to use by a broad audience.

People don?t like change, some people don?t like the Windows 7 taskbar or Vista settings re-organization and want the classic Windows XP way back. Metro is a much more major change and many people will hate it and will have a hard time using it at first. I believe that eventually they?ll adapt and get a better, richer and faster experience. I really hope Metro style apps and ways of working become more refined and (in the longterm) mainstream (with less to no desktop apps anymore).

Windows 8 is a bold risk and even though the above is possible, I have my doubts and hate things as well. I?m wondering whether it will be marketed right so people will get to know it and the Intel vs ARM differences. I?m wondering whether OEMs will trash it with bloatware. I?m wondering whether Microsoft can flush out the remaining bugs, improve apps and get their identity and logo straight for Windows 8. (Official website shows classic Windows flag instead of window, Surface website has 2 Microsoft logos). I wonder whether Microsoft gets around the issue of updating their OS and framework)

Nevertheless I see Windows 8 as a phase, it?s the beginning of a new Windows, the beginning of a new era of PCs thanks to bringing this UI to the mainstream audience. It?s more than an iPad in every single way, and with a good form factor it can be a tablet device. I feel like I?m witnessing the release of the SNES, the iPhone. I feel like Windows 8 is going to change a lot of things, and I can?t wait to see if people will adapt and embrace it.

I really don?t get how people can outright say ?I hate it?, and sometimes not even give it a chance, while Microsoft clearly explained their reasons for doing certain things in their blog posts on the Start Screen and File Explorer. I really hope that those people will give it another shot and ultimately use desktop and Metro apps concurrently.

It?s 3AM so I?m going to stop writing and post this thread. It came out to be even lower than my lowest expectations (been thinking about this since the D9 announcement and I suck at writing). I?m no Microsoft fanboy, just a user who uses and loves some of Microsoft products and someone who feels like Windows 8 is a risk in the right direction.

Bear with my grammar and thanks for reading, do you also think Windows 8 is a step (or risk) in the right direction?

[+Warwagon MVC]

I'm Not a fanboy, I like somethings about Apple and dislike others. Same goes or Microsoft and Google. So It's not that i'm against Microsoft I just dislike Metro

Now you do make a good point and one that I have agreed with from the start. From a developer standpoint being able to write once and compile for many is fantastic . I'm just not crazy on the Bla looking UI's. Sure 3D studio max could be made for Metro, but what I've seen thus far of the metro UI, it would be one ugly looking application and 2 steps backwards .

[Dot Matrix]

Great read, and I agree! Windows 8, Office 2013, and Skydrive are the beginnings of a Microsoft come back. They're finally unifying their products and services in ways that no other competitor has done, which clearly has Apple nervous enough to lash out at.

Indeed these next few years will be quite interesting, but I love where it is going!

[trag3dy]

So those of us who dislike it should just forget all our reasons why we came to the conclusions we did and just use it because you don't understand why we came to the conclusions we did. That's about all I got out of the OP.

I don't need to keep using the metro start screen to know I don't like an obnoxious full screen menu with bright tacky colors and headache inducing animations. That is never going to change.

[cork1958]

Not a fanboy either, but I see Windows 8 as the next Vista, for the most part. You points are all good for some one who doesn't mind change and a learning curve, but most regular people don't want that and that definitely is no reason for any business to upgrade!

[Hum]

Not for me :laugh:

[The King of GnG]

No, Windows 8 isn't even a start of something, just two steps backward in the computer UIs evolution: the MetroUI-powered Windows Phone isn't selling at all, so it's pretty clear to me that, regardless of its value, nobody wants to deal with the new interface Microsoft is trying so hard to push up our throat.

P.S.I'm a Windows Phone user, I like Metro on my smartphone, I will never welcome it on my PCs.

[Motoko.]

This is the first version of Windows people are resenting, numerously. (millennium was an exception but didn't really change much, awareness of issues was also not that high att)

[Sadelwo]

This is the first version of Windows people are resenting, numerously.

And this vocal group are the die hard techies. Introduce Windows 8 to the average user (girlfriend, mom, uncle Fred) show them the new ways of navigating, present Windows 8 neutrally as the new OS and see the reaction. For me average folk love it. Average people will only hate Windows 8 without trying it because their "techy" friend tells them to. Much like what happened to Vista.

[mzta cody]

Some people will just never get over the fact that individuals have subjective reasons for liking or disliking things. Reasons that may not lend themselves well to some sort of reasoned deconstruction, or be swayed by facts, figures, charts, or graphs.

Generally people who cannot accept this fact tend to have little capacity for empathy, embroiled as they are in dispassionate code or the latest hardware. That is to say simply, they don't have the capacity or the concern to see or feel things as another might. With this type, only their perspective matters, and no one else's. My way or the highway.

By the way, how does one "disrespect" an operating system?

[dangel]

And this vocal group are the die hard techies. Introduce Windows 8 to the average user (girlfriend, mom, uncle Fred) show them the new ways of navigating, present Windows 8 neutrally as the new OS and see the reaction. For me average folk love it. Average people will only hate Windows 8 without trying it because their "techy" friend tells them to. Much like what happened to Vista.

I agree - the wife instantly liked it even after i'd warned her it'd be quite different. She's had zero trouble using it which surprised me and I suspect even my parents will take to it OK. The metro apps plugging into her email, photos and social data were a massive hit - she literally went "cool". I suppose they are, they look good and the whole way they work together with the live tiles is impressive.

[Fourjays Veteran]

I think it could have been great. I loved the original Metro UI paradigm, but to me Microsoft have managed to lose what it was about somewhere along the line. Perhaps too many compromises to make it work on both tablets and desktops... I can't help but feel it would have been better if it was "responsive" like many web designs are becoming now. That is, the general UI is the same, but it "morphs" according to form factor.

I'm not giving up on Metro as an idea - I'll see where we are at come Windows 9 (it is early days afterall) - but as it stands it comes across as a bit of a mess to me.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

Many people desperately want that start menu back, or want the Metro environment shut off. I don?t get them. People should embrace change if it?s for the better and give things a chance.

There's the key point in this argument, though. Embrace change if it is a change for the better. Who is to say what is better? You might consider the start screen to be an improvement over the start menu, others will disagree. You might find yourself to be more productive in Windows 8 than previous versions, and others might feel the opposite.

This is why these threads keep coming around. Someone wants to write their opinion on the subject thinking that they can change everyone's mind. At the end of the day it's all subjective, and you telling me that Windows 8 is more productive for you doesn't change the fact that I feel the opposite when it comes to my productivity levels.

[x-byte]

Sure 3D studio max could be made for Metro, but what I've seen thus far of the metro UI, it would be one ugly looking application and 2 steps backwards .

What would be the point in that? Metro apps is software designed for one solution. It is very limited, compared to desktop apps.

[GrayW]

do you also think Windows 8 is a step (or risk) in the right direction?

That was a really interesting read compared to all the other "It's ****" "It's amazing" threads, thank you!

I don't personally like the interface how it is, it feels like something that's getting in my way. I do however think it is certainly a step in the right direction.

[The King of GnG]

For me average folk love it. Average people will only hate Windows 8 without trying it because their "techy" friend tells them to. Much like what happened to Vista.

Lol, if this is true Microsoft is ****ing doomed :-P Guess what? Techies are early adopters of new technologies, not wives, husbands, grandmothers, parents, siblings, dogs, cats, pets or whatever you have in your household. The iPhone became a mass phenomenon AFTER the apple fanatics broke their bank accounts to purchase the phone....

[dangel]

Lol, if this is true Microsoft is ****ing doomed :-P Guess what? Techies are early adopters of new technologies, not wives, husbands, grandmothers, parents, siblings, dogs, cats, pets or whatever you have in your household. The iPhone became a mass phenomenon AFTER the apple fanatics broke their bank accounts to purchase the phone....

Not really. People will get Windows 8 the same way the vast majority always do - with a new PC. The number of upgrades always pales in comparison, even when the original OS is horrible (XP->7 for example). It's part of the reason why the rumoured 'dropping' of retail versions makes a lot of sense for the company (and for us too since they were always overpriced). Upgrades are non trivial for most users - even now when Windows is really easy to install it's still beyond the average user.

As a "techie" i'll get asked if it's ok etc and personally, so far, I'd say there's nothing to fear - it's a tighter better featured version of 7 with a rather divisive new UI which I don't find a hindrance even at my advanced age ;)

[xWhiplash]

Not really. People will get Windows 8 the same way the vast majority always do - with a new PC. The number of upgrades always pales in comparison, even when the original OS is horrible (XP->7 for example). It's part of the reason why the rumoured 'dropping' of retail versions makes a lot of sense for the company (and for us too since they were always overpriced). Upgrades are non trivial for most users - even now when Windows is really easy to install it's still beyond the average user.

As a "techie" i'll get asked if it's ok etc and personally, so far, I'd say there's nothing to fear - it's a tighter better featured version of 7 with a rather divisive new UI which I don't find a hindrance even at my advanced age ;)

You are on a technology forum. You are not part of the normal population like my grandma.

Sure casual users might be able to use Windows8 fine. But people are going to have serious issues using WIndows 8 Metro at home and Windows XP at work. I have to deal with people complaining that their Windows XP is not working because it cannot do the Windows Snap feature.

[threetonesun]

This is the first version of Windows people are resenting, numerously. (millennium was an exception but didn't really change much, awareness of issues was also not that high att)

BS... I've used every version of Windows, and ME was a giant **** show of epic proportions, mostly because it was dropped on computers without people being aware, and it's main feature was that it could BSOD in record time. With no explanation or support from MS, either, and many people had the option to use 2000 or ME at the time, which was like choosing between a pick-up truck or a dead horse, but since MS played the "oh, ME is better for home use" up, too many people went with it.

And, it wasn't even the worst of the Windows OSs. Vista was a complete disaster... I tried running it once years after it came out (during the Windows 7 beta), and hardware support for the PC I had built was the worst I've ever seen out of an OS (and that includes some random Linux distros).

Windows 8? It's actually pretty nice. And that's coming from someone who mostly uses Macs.

[xWhiplash]

I would rate Windows 8 about a 6.5/10. I open quite a bit of stuff and I get headaches going back and forth between the Start Screen and my Desktop.

I would rather go back to Windows 95 if I had a choice. This is the first OS I will not be upgrading to.

XP: I was young, so I got it within the first few months of release.

Vista: I bought two copies the week it was available in a local store.

7: I bought three copies, one within the first week of availability in the Microsoft Store, then another for my Mac. The last one I bought was for my brother.

I was excited about every OS up until now. Go ahead and tell me to "deal with change" all you want. I will deal with it by having Microsoft lose a customer.

[Dot Matrix]

My Mom took to it, but with an "eh" kinda reaction, she figured it out on her own, after a few minutes of exploring. Even though her reaction was lackluster there was no HATE, HATE, HATE, WHERE'S MY START MENU!!!!!!! Her favorite part though, were the live tiles. Specifically, the weather, mail, and MSNBC News apps I have installed.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

I would rate Windows 8 about a 6.5/10. I open quite a bit of stuff and I get headaches going back and forth between the Start Screen and my Desktop.

I would rather go back to Windows 95 if I had a choice. This is the first OS I will not be upgrading to.

XP: I was young, so I got it within the first few months of release.

Vista: I bought two copies the week it was available in a local store.

7: I bought three copies, one within the first week of availability in the Microsoft Store, then another for my Mac. The last one I bought was for my brother.

I was excited about every OS up until now. Go ahead and tell me to "deal with change" all you want. I will deal with it by having Microsoft lose a customer.

I agree with every word of this. WONT be upgrading. First thing I did when I downloaded to see what the fuss was about was click the desktop tile and never went back to Metro UI - for the desktop, it simply doesnt work as well as I thought it would. Mutlitasking is horrible (exit one app to load another full screen... WTF??)

Yep... Windows 8 = Windows ME.

[xWhiplash]

I agree with every word of this. WONT be upgrading. First thing I did when I downloaded to see what the fuss was about was click the desktop tile and never went back to Metro UI - for the desktop, it simply doesnt work as well as I thought it would. Mutlitasking is horrible (exit one app to load another full screen... WTF??)

Yep... Windows 8 = Windows ME.

Luckily, I was too young and we did not purchase Windows ME. So I went from Windows 95 to XP :)

[PGHammer]

Great read, and I agree! Windows 8, Office 2013, and Skydrive are the beginnings of a Microsoft come back. They're finally unifying their products and services in ways that no other competitor has done, which clearly has Apple nervous enough to lash out at.

Indeed these next few years will be quite interesting, but I love where it is going!

First off - SkyDrive. While it's been available, it didn't integrate well with the rest of the operating system (Windows 7); however, third-party cloud integration tools (from anybody) have similar issues - it isn't unique to SkyDrive. Now, thanks to Windows 8 itself, improvements to SkyDrive on the back-end, and better mesh with application frameworks (especially Office), SkyDrive storage is almost indistinguishable from local storage.

Next - Windows 8 itself. I had my doubts about Windows 8 ever since I first saw the Metro UI, and I was, in fact, seriously concerned about backward compatibility with Win32 applications and games. To repeat what I said before; I - WAS - WRONG. In fact, I've never been so happy to BE wrong. Yes - it supports touch better than Windows 7; however, it also has better KEYBOARD support than Windows 7. (Kind of an odd thing for a supposedly touch-biased OS to get right.) I haven't used the touch support; however, I'm leveraging the keyboard in a way I haven't been able to do since Windows 2000 Professional. I'm not THAT addicted to mousing around, thank you very much.

Now - Office365 2.0 and Office 2013. The original Office365 was based on Office 2010 (which was a safe choice), and I was initially expecting Office 2013 to be minor improvements considering how much new ground 2010 alone broke. Again, I was wrong. Majorly wrong. Office 2013/365 2.0 is breaking yet more new ground - I haven't seen back-to-back Office releases for Windows break new ground before to this degree.

1. While a local install of 2013 is faster than a C2R install of O365 2.0, even O365 2.0 is faster than locally-installed 2010, let alone O365 1.0. The cloud is no longer an afterthought at Microsoft.

2. I commented before on the improved SkyDrive.

3. Theming in all of Office is consistent, and is now user-based - not version-based. Your Office is now *exactly that*.

And we're not even close to done.

[dangel]

You are on a technology forum. You are not part of the normal population like my grandma.

I'm pretty sure I didn't claim to be 'normal' - I said what my view would be when asked by the 'normal' people. I'm well aware what users are like on average - and how many call IE "google" because I set it as their homepage..