valve Valve cranks up Linux gaming, makes it faster than Windows

[CentralDogma]

I'd like to see what "thenetavenger" has to say about this. He always claims on the front pages that Direct3D is superior to OpenGL. I guess this goes to show he couldn't be more wrong.

Linux and OpenGL are more than capable at competing against Microsoft's Direct3D. In fact, from every test I've seen, Doom3 also runs faster using OpenGL too. Not only that, but developers can target a much broader set of platforms with OpenGL (Linux, OS X, Android, iOS, and more).

I can't speak for thenetavenger, but several years ago I read an article about how OpenGL had botched their recent release and had fallen far behind DirectX in terms of features and performance (at least in gaming). This might be the article, I'm not sure. I haven't kept up with news about DirectX and OpenGL, but if it's a similar circumstance then it was then, OpenGL is in sore trouble.

AHHAHAHAH Come on dude, get real. Win 8 is no ****ing different than Win 7. It just has a slightly different GUI. Big ****ing deal. The underlying guts of the OS are even more streamlined than 7.

:s

Actually there's a known issue with DPC latency. Granted, this was a preview release, but if not fixed, this would mean big performance issues with Windows 8.

[threetonesun]

It amuses me that people are assuming that they're doing it just because they want to pick on poor little Microsoft. Has anyone considered that they actually see a genuine future with gaming on Linux?

Linux and OSX, since any gains made in OpenGL should be applicable there as well.

I think it's more MS picking on Steam, myself.

[Daedroth]

It amuses me that people are assuming that they're doing it just because they want to pick on poor little Microsoft. Has anyone considered that they actually see a genuine future with gaming on Linux?

Valve would have needed the push/reason to invest the man-hours to get Valve not only working, but working well on Linux. Since Microsoft have punted towards a tablet-friendly operating system, Valve have decided to open up the open-source market.

However, there's still a lot more to do, to get people to switch to Linux. Most PC games still are Windows only, such as MMOs, EA games, etc.

[threetonesun]

However, there's still a lot more to do, to get people to switch to Linux. Most PC games still are Windows only, such as MMOs, EA games, etc.

Games aren't even the biggest issue (a lot of them run under WINE already), getting an office suite and everything else people expect out of Windows on Linux is the bigger step.

But a dedicated media/gaming device running Steam on Linux would be a much easier sell.

[Dashel]

The other side of course is that many PC gamers feel sold out by MS in their bid for a console. The signal to noise between n00bstick ports and good native titles is at an all time high. If Valve paves the way, indy devs will follow. The games I want are rarely the current crop of AAA titles anyway. In fact, without Blizzard and Valve, 'PC gaming' might have died. So when they start talking, I try and listen.

When you start designing for a closed hardware system, its easy for the software/OS to follow suit. Worse, some prefer it that way.

Wine still doesn't cut it, productivity is a whole other ballgame.

[Daedroth]

Games aren't even the biggest issue (a lot of them run under WINE already), getting an office suite and everything else people expect out of Windows on Linux is the bigger step.

But a dedicated media/gaming device running Steam on Linux would be a much easier sell.

How well do games such as Bioshock, Crysis 2, Dragon Age 2, even games like Guild Wars play under WINE? It's been a long time since I've used Linux as a home operating system.

[Max Norris]

How well do games such as Bioshock, Crysis 2, Dragon Age 2, even games like Guild Wars play under WINE? It's been a long time since I've used Linux as a home operating system.

Depends on the game. Some run fairly well.. some are iffy (runs but with caveats), some not at all.

[what]

As long as they'll keep developing games for Windows machines, I could care less.

So why don't you?

[ichi]

Valve/Gabe is scared that the MS Store is going to cut into there Steam profits. That's what all this BS is about. Linux will never take off as a "gaming" OS.

So what about the Ubuntu Software Center then? It's basically also a software store.

I think Valve should just announce their Linux based console instead of trolling Windows every other day or providing fodder to anti-Microsoft-anything-they-kill-kittens trolls like simplezz

Releasing numbers about a game giving far higher FPS on Linux than on Windows is trolling now?

[ahhell]

The other side of course is that many PC gamers feel sold out by MS in their bid for a console. The signal to noise between n00bstick ports and good native titles is at an all time high. If Valve paves the way, indy devs will follow. The games I want are rarely the current crop of AAA titles anyway. In fact, without Blizzard and Valve, 'PC gaming' might have died. So when they start talking, I try and listen.

So MS is to blame for the gaming industry (primarily the big AAA devs/publishers) pumping out console ports?

Wow.

Do actually believe any of the crap that you just said? :|

[tsupersonic]

This I could get behind. I have zero interest in a Linux desktop; like it on a few of my servers but flat out hate the desktop software. A "Steam box" however would be something I'd possibly buy, plus they get to hand-pick what goes in so no rolling the dice with drivers/performance/etc.

I would just prefer if they made a console - if any company can pull it off, it's Valve. The major advantage is everyone is running the same hardware, so you can optimize all the games for that specific OS/hardware, gives everyone a common ground (rather than a plethora of PC hardware configurations).

[Dot Matrix]

Well since i'm no win8 enthusiast, all I can do is take your word for it at this point.

The desktop/classic x64 UX is still the same as Windows 7. You can install apps without having to use the store.

[spaceelf]

Seems to me like Valve has been vocally disappointed with MS since Vista. That they branched out into OSX already means they already know OpenGL code pretty well.

I'm seriously hoping they can get their graphics code up to date under OGL since they obviously can't be arsed to do it the other way.

All my DX10/11 games run great, and yes there's a performance hit when you add new features. Go figure.

[Dashel]

Valve isn't going to n00b out on a console.

ahhell, MS simply took everything it could from the PC community and leveraged it, its buying power, and developer muscle to make the XBox successful.

They took PC first titles and delayed them for years intentionally to get PC gamers to buy XBoxes while allowing Windows to languish. They poached their own userbase. If they took a beautiful open gaming ecosystem and closed it off for their own purposes, why should I believe they won't do the same to the Windows ecosystem at large?

Halo is a perfect example. Took a PC title, XBoxed it, created ****ty port. Then went to the publishers and said 'Hey, look how easy it is to develop for two different markets'.

It was Valve and Valve alone that stepped in and gave PC-centric devs a reason to stay.

[Daedroth]

As long as they'll keep developing games for Windows machines, I could care less.

Therefore you care, even just a little?

[Vice]

Valve would have needed the push/reason to invest the man-hours to get Valve not only working, but working well on Linux. Since Microsoft have punted towards a tablet-friendly operating system, Valve have decided to open up the open-source market.

However, there's still a lot more to do, to get people to switch to Linux. Most PC games still are Windows only, such as MMOs, EA games, etc.

Although most MMO's are Windows only, the biggest and most important one for most MMO players isn't (World of Warcrack).

There are actually quite a lot of good games on OS X. The new Deus X game, Some Call of Duty games, Diablo 3, Trine 2, Minecraft. And of course OS X has almost all the indie games that have become extremely popular recently.

Now obviously I'm not saying OS X is a good platform for gamers. The overwhelming majority of personal computer games are targeting Windows and I would never suggest any gamer buy a Mac (unless they felt like dual booting and have no option for upgrades) But if you already have a Mac then the market has improved over the years for you, it isn't devolving and with Steam on the Mac offering over 100 titles and since Apple launching the Mac App Store it has only continued to get better at a higher rate.

Maybe in a decade from now we can enjoy the same games regardless of our platform, that would be really nice and would benefit us as consumers because the more the ecosystems are the same the more their producers will add unique value to differentiate their platform from another.

I welcome Valves movement to Linux even though I use Windows on my PC because I can see further afield that it is a good thing for us. Some of you didn't even read the article which is a bit sad because had you done so you would have seen the part where they were able to increase Windows OpenGL performance to higher levels than DirectX by doing some tweaks to the OpenGL featured on Windows. And they are working with NVIDIA AMD and Intel to bring improvements to their drivers which will benefit all platforms and increase performance for all games. They are also investigating ways to improve the performance of their titles on DirectX by cutting down on the latency now that they know there is a problem to be solved and higher levels of performance are obtainable.

Valve has done more for PC gaming in the past decade than Microsoft has. I actually believe that if Steam didn't exist we wouldn't have some of the great games we do and I think many publishers would have turned to console only releases to fight piracy. Valves compelling distribution platform has helped to add value to games with almost no expense (steamworks etc) that has made loyal paying customers out of pirates. 4 Million active daily users of steam can't be wrong!

[threetonesun]

They took PC first titles and delayed them for years intentionally to get PC gamers to buy XBoxes while allowing Windows to languish. They poached their own userbase. If they took a beautiful open gaming ecosystem and closed it off for their own purposes, why should I believe they won't do the same to the Windows ecosystem at large?

Yup. I'll say it again, come next Xbox, MS will be selling games in their download only store, taking a cut of the sale price, and saying there's some PC / tablet / phone functionality built in. Play Halo 12 on your Xbox, and get Halo Shoot n' Stuff for your tablet which feeds stats back into Halo 12, and check on all your friends on your Windows 8 phone. And they'll get EA to buy into this system in a second.

They built the Xbox Live ecosystem and got everyone to join, and now their going to milk that cow as hard as they can.

[BajiRav]

Releasing numbers about a game giving far higher FPS on Linux than on Windows is trolling now?

On its own? No. Coupled with their recent stance that "Windows 8 is a catastrophe" (with no reason give as to why)? Yes.

[BajiRav]

It amuses me that people are assuming that they're doing it just because they want to pick on poor little Microsoft. Has anyone considered that they actually see a genuine future with gaming on Linux?

Suddenly, after all these years with no significant change in Linux market share? They will have more market if they went the OS X way (or included OS X). I think this is purely a Steam box play and nothing more.

Valve isn't going to n00b out on a console.

ahhell, MS simply took everything it could from the PC community and leveraged it, its buying power, and developer muscle to make the XBox successful.

They took PC first titles and delayed them for years intentionally to get PC gamers to buy XBoxes while allowing Windows to languish. They poached their own userbase. If they took a beautiful open gaming ecosystem and closed it off for their own purposes, why should I believe they won't do the same to the Windows ecosystem at large?

Halo is a perfect example. Took a PC title, XBoxed it, created ****ty port. Then went to the publishers and said 'Hey, look how easy it is to develop for two different markets'.

It was Valve and Valve alone that stepped in and gave PC-centric devs a reason to stay.

I agree with most of your post except the Halo part. Halo was never a PC/Windows-first title. (it was a Mac game in development but as most iPeople tell me Macs are not PCs. :p)

[Noir Angel]

Valve would have needed the push/reason to invest the man-hours to get Valve not only working, but working well on Linux. Since Microsoft have punted towards a tablet-friendly operating system, Valve have decided to open up the open-source market.

However, there's still a lot more to do, to get people to switch to Linux. Most PC games still are Windows only, such as MMOs, EA games, etc.

Sure, but it's a really good start. I for one welcome the idea of having real choice for gaming, given the direction Microsoft are taking with Windows I'm not going to be sad about having more options on my plate. Sure, there won't be a great exodus of users, but it's a step in the right direction.

Multi platform gaming would be great for all consumers, the fact that so many Neowin members seem to be against it is interesting to say the least.

[McKay]

Whoah, Linux has an app store, that's a "catastrophe" for steam ;-)

[George P Global Moderator]

Yup. I'll say it again, come next Xbox, MS will be selling games in their download only store, taking a cut of the sale price, and saying there's some PC / tablet / phone functionality built in. Play Halo 12 on your Xbox, and get Halo Shoot n' Stuff for your tablet which feeds stats back into Halo 12, and check on all your friends on your Windows 8 phone. And they'll get EA to buy into this system in a second.

They built the Xbox Live ecosystem and got everyone to join, and now their going to milk that cow as hard as they can.

How is cross-platform connectivity or however you want to think of it a bad thing now? Because it comes from MS's store? Is that the single reason this is a problem for people or something? Doesn't steam offer much the same with their Windows and OSX versions and also the connection to the PS3? Honestly some of you, it seems because MS is going to do more of what steam does already it's totally wrong and is going to screw us all over! Look out the sky is falling!

[Max Norris]

Multi platform gaming would be great for all consumers, the fact that so many Neowin members seem to be against it is interesting to say the least.

Personally not againt it, I'm all for people running whatever they want (as long as they don't preach their choice as the only choice.) Just don't see it making any real impact, just going to come and go. But hey if I'm wrong that's great, not that it makes a bit of difference to me either way.. pretty unrealistic if anyone expects the major developers to just drop their biggest desktop market, not going to happen.

[Tuishimi]

Can one even discern 270 FPS vs. 315FPS?!

[ichi]

On its own? No. Coupled with their recent stance that "Windows 8 is a catastrophe" (with no reason give as to why)? Yes.

Coupled? Hard numbers are hardly trolling, no matter what you couple them with.

I don't know what's their exact problem with Windows8, but if it was the Windows Store alone they would be having the same problem with Ubuntu since Canonical has been running an app store called Software Center for quite some time now.

Can one even discern 270 FPS vs. 315FPS?!

No, but if you run the game on an older machine and happen to get about 250 less FPS you sure will.

And anyway the interesting bit is not that "omg-linux-beats-windows" but rather than Linux and OpenGL have always been portrayed as inferior gaming platforms compared to Windows and Direct3D, and those tests seem to point that it does actually perform great (and still NVidia and AMD haven't actually got their hands dirty with driver optimization, so you could expect results getting even better).