Shooting at Wisconsin Sikh temple

[DocM]

And changing the laws will have zero effect on teen gangsta's because they and other criminals don't get guns through legal channels.

As to automatic weapons etc., because of year of production restrictions etc. they are so expensive very few people legally own them - mostly 3-5%'ers. Anyone else that has one is again getting one illegally.

[DocM]

A lot of those guns are stolen from people who bought them legally.

Only a few percent of the whole. A lot of firearms come into the US fom Europe, Asia and elsewhere. Gunrunning is alive and well here too.

These people doing the mass shootings are buying the guns themselves legally, so your point doesn't really go along with reality.

It goes perfectly with my oft-stated point that our mandatory psychiatric reporting standards need serious tightening up.

Saying getting rid of guns wont help at all, is just silly and very ignorant of you.

It's based on really-real-world facts; there are over 300 million firearms in the US and a huge number of them are of pre-1968 manufacture, which means a great many have no serial numbers or sales records and therefore no way to track ownership. Even then, a lot of post-1968 weapons required no paperwork trail when they're re-sold, so they too are in the wind. If you expect those to just disappear because some bureaucrats say they should, you're delusional.

BTW, i already know its stupid of me to even try to argue with a old man with a signature full of guns.

Your accurate self-description noted.

[Azies]

Only a few percent of the whole. A lot of firearms come into the US fom Europe, Asia and elsewhere. Gunrunning is alive and well here too.

It goes perfectly with my oft-stated point that our mandatory psychiatric reporting standards need serious tightening up.

It's based on really-real-world facts; there are over 300 million firearms in the US and a huge number of them are of pre-1968 manufacture, which means no serial numbers and no way to track ownership. Even then, a lot of post-1968 weapons required no paperwork trail when they're re-sold, so they too are in the wind. If you expect those to just disappear because some bureaucrats say they should, you're delusional.

Your accurate self-description noted.

Just shut up now, at this point I would be surprised if gun laws were looked at, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, it's too late now.

[DocM]

Just shut up now, at this point I would be surprised if gun laws were looked at, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, it's too late now.

Before your edit you said "Just keep your mouth shut"

I have ZERO intention of shutting up EITHER WAY you state it. If you don't like what I have to say, either come up with a valid counterpoint or stuff it.

BTW: the FBI is now investigating this as an act of domestic terrorism, whatever that means.

[Guest nicconics]

another 60 page topic with the anti's vs the pro's? LETS SEE WHO WINS. GO

[Noir Angel]

2 gun massacres in a month. Yeah, America clearly has no issues with gun violence.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

It's good to see guns protecting more lives... oh wait. :whistle:

How do you like the change? Blame everything on Guns. I thought that the Human Race has evolved above the mentality of an Ape but I guess I was wrong.

[Guest nicconics]

And changing the laws will have zero effect on teen gangsta's because they and other criminals don't get guns through legal channels.

As to automatic weapons etc., because of year of production restrictions etc. they are so expensive very few people legally own them - mostly 3-5%'ers. Anyone else that has one is again getting one illegally.

Why even waste your breath DoC? Just ignore these pointless threads where all they are trying to do is get a rise out of people. No one on this board can do absolutly anything in regards to ownership, so why bother talking either way?

[Azies]

Before your edit you said "Just keep your mouth shut"

I have ZERO intention of shutting up EITHER WAY you state it. If you don't like what I have to say, either come up with a valid counterpoint or stuff it.

BTW: the FBI is now investigating this as an act of domestic terrorism, whatever that means.

It means that most likely someone of your same political background, murdered these people cause they thought they were Muslim. I won't keep my mouth shut, better enjoy buying guns now, cause it won't be long before people are done with this bull**** and put an end to it.

[compl3x]

It goes perfectly with my oft-stated point that our mandatory psychiatric reporting standards need serious tightening up.

Why bother with that, didn't you say earlier: "And crazies who want to kill will find a way to do it." - crazies will get guns illegally and go and shoot up a school or shopping centre. Gun runners aren't going to tick off a mental health check list before they sell someone a weapon.

What would be the standards to refuse someone the sale of a weapon? I'll assume any kind of violent psychotic episode would rule out legal gun ownership. Schizophrenia would probably be on the list. Bipolar, depression, anxiety? Millions of Americans are medicated for those reasons, so I guess they might be refused sale aswell.

Frankly, I agree with you that regulation won't do much. America has gone way past the point of no return when it comes to gun regulation. Couple that with a form of paranoia about the government seen nowhere else in the Western World and you're never going to get gun reform. It's a lefty pipe-dream.

[Azies]

Why bother with that, didn't you say earlier: "And crazies who want to kill will find a way to do it." - crazies will get guns illegally and go and shoot up a school or shopping centre. Gun runners aren't going to tick off a mental health check list before they sell someone a weapon.

What would be the standards to refuse someone the sale of a weapon? I'll assume any kind of violent psychotic episode would rule out legal gun ownership. Schizophrenia would probably be on the list. Bipolar, depression, anxiety? Millions of Americans are medicated for those reasons, so I guess they might be refused sale aswell.

Frankly, I agree with you that regulation won't do much. America has gone way past the point of no return when it comes to gun regulation. Couple that with a form of paranoia about the government seen nowhere else in the Western World and you're never going to get gun reform. It's a lefty pipe-dream.

I hope something is done, the gun discussion in this nation needs to take place, it's not a matter of principle anymore, something needs to be done.

[compl3x]

I hope something is done, the gun discussion in this nation needs to take place, it's not a matter of principle anymore, something needs to be done.

Gun culture is as much a part of America as baseball, Big Macs, and Mom's apple pie. You're never going to put that genie back in the bottle.

Call me a crusty, grumpy, 25 year old cynic, but I think that hope of yours is misplaced. :crazy:

[DocM]

>

What would be the standards to refuse someone the sale of a weapon? I'll assume any kind of violent psychotic episode would rule out legal gun ownership. Schizophrenia would probably be on the list. Bipolar, depression, anxiety? Millions of Americans are medicated for those reasons, so I guess they might be refused sale as well.

>

Not that it's perfect, it's far from it, but the California Mental Health Firearms Prohibition (California Welfare and Institutions Code, sections 8100-8108) is a jumping off point. These exclusions are commonly known as a 5150 exclusion, but that's only one of the provisions.

[compl3x]

Not that it's perfect, it's far from it, but the California Mental Health Firearms Prohibition (California Welfare and Institutions Code, sections 8100-8108) is a jumping off point. These exclusions are commonly known as a 5150 exclusion, but that's only one of the provisions.

But isn't your whole argument against gun control that it is largely ineffective because black markets for firearms exist and are exploited by criminals all the time?

Is this just a token gesture by a pro-gun person? Not being a smartass. Sincere question.

[jakem1]

Personally I couldn't care less if Americans want to own guns and murder one another. It's the incessant fake hand-wringing, the insincere sympathy for victims and the constant media spectacle in America every time something like this happens that I find boring.

If you need a gun to pretend that you're not a frightened little man then knock yourself out but don't complain when someone gets shot. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame.

[Aethec]

The U.S. have a long-standing tradition of ignoring common sense and science and just clinging to "simple" arguments (to stay politically correct..). Unless this mentality changes, nothing will ever change.

[thejohnnyq]

Not aware of a lot of knife massacres.

What liberty would really be impacted on sensible gun regulation? Your right to own high powered, automatic weapons? Why do people even own them? Why not flame throwers and rocket propelled grenade launchers, too? Automatic weapons have no practical use in civilized society, so why not allow other forms of arms which are also impractical and downright dangerous?

No, really, I'm curious. Someone care to enlighten me?

First off, automatic weapons require special license and permits. you just can't get them. How in the hell do you or anyone one connect these type of weapons to this type of issue? Honestly what have you been taught, do you believe everything you read about guns on the internet?

Here is a guide that most people believe :

It is domestic terrorism, just as the Move Attacks on the Fire Fighters and Cops in Philly in the 80's or any wacko that intended to cause harm.

[DocM]

But isn't your whole argument against gun control that it is largely ineffective because black markets for firearms exist and are exploited by criminals all the time?

Is this just a token gesture by a pro-gun person? Not being a smartass. Sincere question.

The fact is that the vast majority of rampage killers have a psychiatric history that wasn't reported to the ATF (firearms regulatory body) so they could be put on the instant background check services they run for dealers and those states & municipalities that require them for purchases.. Because of this they were able to legally buy weapons. This was true of the Va. Tech, Arizona and the Aurora shooters.

No, this wouldn't stop them from buying illegally, but we can't control that so we control what we can. No excuse for doing otherwise. That and you never know - people with such disorganized thinking could well not figure out how to go any further.

[Krome]

Personally I couldn't care less if Americans want to own guns and murder one another. It's the incessant fake hand-wringing, the insincere sympathy for victims and the constant media spectacle in America every time something like this happens that I find boring.

If you need a gun to pretend that you're not a frightened little man then knock yourself out but don't complain when someone gets shot. You've got nobody but yourselves to blame.

If you have a gun already, I'd stay away from you. :) If I own a gun shop, I'd never sell you any gun.

[Yogurtmaster]

It's good to see guns protecting more lives... oh wait. :whistle:

On September 11th, 2001 box cutters were used to take over a plane so it could be used as a weapon and that weapon killed more than 3000 people.

Eliminate guns all you want but it won't stop people from doing what they want to do.

It's not the guns that are the problem, but the people.

[jakem1]

If you have a gun already, I'd stay away from you. :) If I own a gun shop, I'd never sell you any gun.

Don't worry, I have zero interest in owning a gun :)

[compl3x]

First off, automatic weapons require special license and permits. you just can't get them. How in the hell do you or anyone one connect these type of weapons to this type of issue? Honestly what have you been taught, do you believe everything you read about guns on the internet?

Here is a guide that most people believe :

It is domestic terrorism, just as the Move Attacks on the Fire Fighters and Cops in Philly in the 80's or any wacko that intended to cause harm.

Wasn't an AR15 used in the Aurora massacre? OK, you got me. Automatic, semi-automatic, I'm not a gun expert. My mistake for not using proper terminology.

Still doesn' really answer the question of why anyone needs one or wants one.

The fact is that the vast majority of rampage killers have a psychiatric history that wasn't reported to the ATF (firearms regulatory body) so they could be put on the instant background check services they run for dealers and those states & municipalities that require them for purchases.. Because of this they were able to legally buy weapons. This was true of the Va. Tech, Arizona and the Aurora shooters.

Something that is useless if you have an individual who has an undiagnosed psychiatric disorder. Which I imagine a lot of people do.

And if you don't have a uniform laws across the country couldn't someone just go to a neighbouring state which don't require background checks and procure firearms?

[guru]

It's good to see guns protecting more lives... oh wait. :whistle:

7 people dead and the first reply you left wing nuts turns this into yet another guns related thread :| .. maybe, its time for an official gun thread or something. atleast, that'll limit all the frothing to one thread.

[nominak]

On September 11th, 2001 box cutters were used to take over a plane so it could be used as a weapon and that weapon killed more than 3000 people.

No. What killed 3000 people were

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_757

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767#767-200

Those killed 3000 people. Not a god damn box cutter. Have some respect for those people at least and get it right ffs.

7 people dead and the first reply you left wing nuts turns this into yet another guns related thread :| .. maybe, its time for an official gun thread or something. atleast, that'll limit all the frothing to one thread.

Shooting at Wisconsin Sikh

Another gun related thread.... in regards to another... GUN RELATED INCIDENT? Go figure. :rolleyes:

[Rippleman]

Yea, like a knife never killed anyone -- http://www.news.com....v-1226441838914

that's called deflecting...