Two female police officers killed in Manchester by gunman

[theyarecomingforyou]

I can give you a dozen links showing that the UK is one of the most dangerous places in the western world and most certainly the most dangerous of all western European countries. People act as if there is little crime but studies prove otherwise. Claiming that gun bans made the country a safer place. Really? The statistics don't prove that. It looks like violent crime is still up.

You used an exaggerated and misleading report by the Daily Mail - a tabloid newspaper that is similar in journalistic quality to Fox News. The murder rate in the UK is a quarter of that of the US and below that of European countries like Greece, Finland, Belgium, Luxembourg and the like; it is only 0.1 per 100,000 greater than France and 0.2 more than Germany. South Africa has a murder rate that is 27 times greater than the UK. If you'd have used respected sources you'd have realised that.

You are a scared individual. You don't like people carrying guns because you are scared of what people might do, the same with knives. I see the reason now why you are want guns banned because you have an irrational fear of guns and dangerous things.

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously? Rather than engage in a serious, intellectual debate you instead resort to petty insults. Other people have pointed out exactly the same thing. If you want me to sink to your level then I'd argue that it's you that is the "scared individual" because you feel the need to arm yourself to the teeth just to go about your daily life. But I didn't come into the topic to exchange childish remarks with other users, so I'd rather just go back to ignoring you.

[soldier1st]

The 2 cops would have lived if they were armed but for some stupid reason, they were unarmed. It is foolish to go into any situation without backup and or some way of protecting yourself.

[KingCracker]

You used an exaggerated and misleading report by the Daily Mail - a tabloid newspaper that is similar in journalistic quality to Fox News. The murder rate in the UK is a quarter of that of the US and below that of European countries like Greece, Finland, Belgium, Luxembourg and the like; it is only 0.1 per 100,000 greater than France and 0.2 more than Germany. South Africa has a murder rate that is 27 times greater than the UK. If you'd have used respected sources you'd have realised that.

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously? Rather than engage in a serious, intellectual debate you instead resort to petty insults. Other people have pointed out exactly the same thing. If you want me to sink to your level then I'd argue that it's you that is the "scared individual" because you feel the need to arm yourself to the teeth just to go about your daily life. But I didn't come into the topic to exchange childish remarks with other users, so I'd rather just go back to ignoring you.

http://www.telegraph...-of-Europe.html

http://www.guardian....kcrime.scotland

http://www.telegraph...itas-study.html

http://www.standard....pe-6746864.html

http://www.independe...us-2042216.html

Deny all you want. I give links you give nothing. I can make up statistics to but nah I use links to back up my claim. How many more links do you want? Or are all of those links wrong and just made up?

[TheLegendOfMart]

^ Where I think you have the most intelligent response to my post, I still disagree with not having guns for police. I respect your POV. Thank you for having intelligence to realize that I was saying how stupid it was for Unarmed cops to be going toward gun fire.

They responded to a report of a burglary not shots being fired, even at the slightest hint that the criminal has a weapon the armed response units get called out who carry sub machine guns, handguns, shotguns, tasers.

[Haggis Veteran]

The 2 cops would have lived if they were armed but for some stupid reason, they were unarmed. It is foolish to go into any situation without backup and or some way of protecting yourself.

They were unarmed because it was a call to a routine burglary

I was discussing this with my wife last night i feel that police in the uk should be armed when out on patrol

but as she says you get some police that think they are above the law and are a danger with a baton let alone a firearm

[FloatingFatMan]

They were unarmed because it was a call to a routine burglary

I was discussing this with my wife last night i feel that police in the uk should be armed when out on patrol

but as she says you get some police that think they are above the law and are a danger with a baton let alone a firearm

The general consensus among police themselves, is that general arming would lead to an escalation of arming on both sides, and that they themselves don't WANT to be armed.

Also, every time a cop is shot, this question is raised again, but addressing this issue must NOT be done when emotions are high after such a tragic incident. That's the best way to guarantee REALLY bad legislation, such as most of the anti-terror garbage we have to put up with (and the US anti-terror stuff too, which is even worse!)

[Haggis Veteran]

yeah completely agree

thing is most police here dont even have non lethal firearms for example tasers

These guys are out on the street putting up with the maniacs and idiots (YES AIMED AT A GROUP OF PEOPLE LOL) on a daily basis and have a crappy baton to protect themselves

[Azusa]

The general consensus among police themselves, is that general arming would lead to an escalation of arming on both sides, and that they themselves don't WANT to be armed.

they always claim there would be an arms race if they did arm themselves but what do they think happens with rival gangs?

You have to admit our police force has gotten stupid over the years and organizations like the IPCC aren't helping.

[FloatingFatMan]

You have to admit our police force has gotten stupid over the years and organizations like the IPCC aren't helping.

I don't have to admit that at all, actually. In fact, I quite strongly deny it.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Also, every time a cop is shot, this question is raised again, but addressing this issue must NOT be done when emotions are high after such a tragic incident. That's the best way to guarantee REALLY bad legislation, such as most of the anti-terror garbage we have to put up with (and the US anti-terror stuff too, which is even worse!)

Exactly. Unfortunately people like Lord Tebbit are trying to hijack this tragedy and play on people's emotions in order to bring back the death penalty for killing police officers. The US has demonstrated that the death penalty is not a deterrent and it has no place in a civilised society.

You have to admit our police force has gotten stupid over the years and organizations like the IPCC aren't helping.

I don't think that's true at all. The IPCC serves an essential role, as you don't want a situation in the US where police officers are able to gun down suspects without any consequences or proper investigation. That's not to say there aren't issues with the way policing is handled - for instance, I believe the police force became very politicised under the Labour government thanks to people like Sir Ian Blair; we had the scandal 13yrs ago when our police force was exposed for being institutionally racist; and we had the excessive force used during the G20 protests - but certainly I haven't seen anything to support the accusation that the police force has become "stupid".

[Azusa]

I don't think that's true at all. The IPCC serves an essential role, as you don't want a situation in the US where police officers are able to gun down suspects without any consequences or proper investigation. That's not to say there aren't issues with the way policing is handled - for instance, I believe the police force became very politicised under the Labour government thanks to people like Sir Ian Blair; we had the scandal 13yrs ago when our police force was exposed for being institutionally racist; and we had the excessive force used during the G20 protests - but certainly I haven't seen anything to support the accusation that the police force has become "stupid".

I didn't say the IPCC isn't needed i said they weren't helping.

[thechronic]

I walked by where the shootings happened and miraculously the whole area is back to some form of normality. There was a mother teaching her kid to ride a bike on the street. Hundreds of police about though.

[Jazirian]

The 2 cops would have lived if they were armed but for some stupid reason, they were unarmed.

You're talking rubbish. Everything I have heard suggests that they were ambushed, shot and hit by a grenade. How would giving these two police women guns have saved their lives?

[saltysaltybk]

We're gonna need bigger guns