win8 Is it just me or those Metro apps really sucks so bad?

[nekrosoft13]

There is not a single Metro app I found usable... yet!!

very true, no metro app will replace desktop app, they are build with simple limited interface. reminds me of recent games were they try to dumb it down in hopes more people will use it, but they end up removing so many functions that tool becomes useless.

Used Win8 for a month or so, like it in general, but most of the time I find myself still using the desktop. I like the idea and design of the Metro apps, however they seem to be annoyingly slow and user-unfriendly. For example, the Mail app can take more than half a minute to launch, while the Office 2010 Outlook takes less than half the time. Also you cannot switch out of the app while waiting for it to start. For desktop apps, if the startup time of a certain app is slow, you can just launch a browser or media player or whatever during the wait. For Metro apps, if you switch out during the startup to browser the web or something, when you switch back, it will still be at the startup screen. So you need to keep staring at the whirling circles when waiting for the Metro app's slow startup. This kind of things make the Metro apps really annoying to use IMHO.

won't get easier

Welcome to Windows 8, the soon to be most epic fail ever for desktop users.

And your not alone mate, that above is the reason most users won't go near it. Hell, a good 90% of the people I know will be sticking with Windows 7 simply because of how much of a mess 8 is for desktop users.

yap, windows 8 will go down in history as worse windows ever released.

There is not a single Metro app I found usable... yet!!

very true, no metro app will replace desktop app, they are build with simple limited interface. reminds me of recent games were they try to dumb it down in hopes more people will use it, but they end up removing so many functions that tool becomes useless.

Used Win8 for a month or so, like it in general, but most of the time I find myself still using the desktop. I like the idea and design of the Metro apps, however they seem to be annoyingly slow and user-unfriendly. For example, the Mail app can take more than half a minute to launch, while the Office 2010 Outlook takes less than half the time. Also you cannot switch out of the app while waiting for it to start. For desktop apps, if the startup time of a certain app is slow, you can just launch a browser or media player or whatever during the wait. For Metro apps, if you switch out during the startup to browser the web or something, when you switch back, it will still be at the startup screen. So you need to keep staring at the whirling circles when waiting for the Metro app's slow startup. This kind of things make the Metro apps really annoying to use IMHO.

won't get easier

Welcome to Windows 8, the soon to be most epic fail ever for desktop users.

And your not alone mate, that above is the reason most users won't go near it. Hell, a good 90% of the people I know will be sticking with Windows 7 simply because of how much of a mess 8 is for desktop users.

yap, windows 8 will go down in history as worse windows ever released.

[Colin McGregor]

Cool this is the first Windows 8 / Metro trolling post on neowin. Good job /s

[Dot Matrix]

very true, no metro app will replace desktop app, they are build with simple limited interface. reminds me of recent games were they try to dumb it down in hopes more people will use it, but they end up removing so many functions that tool becomes useless.

You couldn't be much more further from the truth. Bing, Bing Weather, Calendar, Evernote, OneNote MX, IE, MetroTwit, even Mail to an extent have all replaced desktop apps for me. Not to mention, 95% of Metro apps don't even have a desktop equivalent, yet fill in the gaps in the OS quite nicely. Then there's apps like Skype that haven't even been released yet.

[theyarecomingforyou]

You couldn't be much more further from the truth. Bing, Bing Weather, Calendar, Evernote, OneNote MX, IE, MetroTwit, even Mail to an extent have all replaced desktop apps for me.

You actually use Mail? That's one of the best examples of how poorly Metro apps integrate into a desktop workflow. I'm sure it's great for tablet but it's a terrible alternative / replacement to desktop applications like Thunderbird or Outlook.

[Dot Matrix]

You actually use Mail? That's one of the best examples of how poorly Metro apps integrate into a desktop workflow. I'm sure it's great for tablet but it's a terrible alternative / replacement to desktop applications like Thunderbird or Outlook.

Yes, If I just need to send off a quick reply, or even just quickly check a message, there's no point in switching over to the desktop from the Start Screen.

[nekrosoft13]

You actually use Mail? That's one of the best examples of how poorly Metro apps integrate into a desktop workflow. I'm sure it's great for tablet but it's a terrible alternative / replacement to desktop applications like Thunderbird or Outlook.

very true, the old windows live mail was million times better.

mail is probably the worst metro app, and i doubt it will get any better.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Why is it photoshop opens faster than most metro apps?

Its always, pointless animation, loading, then the app fades/slides in... (I'm on a ssd/not slow machine)

Which apps? Some apps show a progress wheel while they download new content from a server. That's up to the app author to decide though. Even then, I can't find any apps that take more than a second for a code launch on my Vaio Z, unless I'm on a really flakey network. On something much slower device (i.e. something like an Atom CPU) it might take 2-3 seconds to cold launch some of the bigger apps like Mail. But these devices are rarely rebooted and that's really the only time I see a cold launch anyway.

If you just don't like animations like the app launch one, you can turn them off.

You actually use Mail? That's one of the best examples of how poorly Metro apps integrate into a desktop workflow. I'm sure it's great for tablet but it's a terrible alternative / replacement to desktop applications like Thunderbird or Outlook.

On my home desktop PC I use Mail. Not at work though.

mail is probably the worst metro app, and i doubt it will get any better.

Why would you say that? It got a lot better with the recent GA update (i.e. has conversation threading, can accept meeting requests, etc).

[theyarecomingforyou]

Yes, If I just need to send off a quick reply, or even just quickly check a message, there's no point in switching over to the desktop from the Start Screen.

Why would you be on the Start Screen? It has no functionality, aside from the live tiles. It is used to launch applications, so rather than launching Mail you could simply launch a fully featured mail client.

[Dot Matrix]

Why would you be on the Start Screen? It has no functionality, aside from the live tiles. It is used to launch applications, so rather than launching Mail you could simply launch a fully featured mail client.

Because the Start Screen is Windows 8? It's where everything lives.

[Dashel]

Why would you say that? It got a lot better with the recent GA update (i.e. has conversation threading, can accept meeting requests, etc).

Where would you rate the Mail app compared to Live Essentials right now? Do you disagree that one of the pitfalls of going fullscreen is that it makes any slowdowns more apparent?

[wellofsouls]

Just a quick update on the situation, after the recent update of the stock apps (Mail, People, Messaging, Calendar, etc.) they seem to start up a lot faster now. I guess they finally fixed some compatibility issues or something, albeit cold start up after a system reboot can still take anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds, still somewhat slower than Office 2010 Outlook which generally start up under 15 seconds.

Also the "hang up on switching app" is partially solved. For example now when I start Mail and when the twirling circle appears, I can switch to other apps and it will start up alright in the background. But still if I switch out of the app before the twirling circle appears, it will still seem to hang there and after I switch back to it five minutes later, it will still at the stage where waiting for the twirling circle to appear. hmm...

And looking back through this topic, it seems plenty people here tend to just reply without ever reading and thinking a bit more before they post. :shiftyninja:

[NightScreams]

I'm more curious if developers will try having full featured applications in a similar fashion as they do on web browsers. Like Quake Live, Photo editors, File converters all of which can have full features but interfaced in a web browser. I wonder if they could use the Live tile as an interface and the actual features, plugins..etc via the cloud? since its html5 and javascript? I'm no developer but seems plausable.

Though i have a first gen Ipad and initially its apps sucked too. Now they have some nice ones. I mostly use Zinio, so hopefully they will make a metro version of that should i ever decide to get a surface.

[Frogboy Administrators]

The problem I'm having with Metro apps (besides not knowing what to call them ["Moddern"?]) is the UI guidelines for them are terrible.

The Wikipedia app is a perfect example. Every time you want to search, you have to go to the charms bar. Even on a tablet that would be obnoxious.

[Dot Matrix]

The Wikipedia app is a perfect example. Every time you want to search, you have to go to the charms bar. Even on a tablet that would be obnoxious.

It's the same with every app. That's what the Search Charm is for. That way there's no mis-matched searching in the OS. It's all in one spot.

[Frogboy Administrators]

Here's the eBay app:

Screenshot:

http://screencast.com/t/gYbmREXm

This is on a 15 inch laptop. This is not *useful* or productive to use.

[Frogboy Administrators]

It's the same with every app. That's what the Search Charm is for. That way there's no mis-matched searching in the OS. It's all in one spot.

I know. And it's still annoying.

Here's a screenshot of using the convoluted search system:

http://screencast.com/t/NEREzBu9Vk

Now, honestly, tell me that the store search results isn't obnoxious?

Getting back to the search. If you were doing ONE search, then the charms bar wouldn't be so painful. But few people do that. Multiple searches become increasingly tedious.

For example, if they wanted it to work more intelligently, they could have made it so that the default keyboard behavior was search in every app with it remembering the last app. But that's not how it works which I find mind boggling.

Let me repeat this because it bears repeating:

If you're on the Start screen and you start typing, the charms bar automatically pops up with the search field being filled in. This is GOOD. GREAT! WONERFUL!!!

But once you get into the Metro app, typing doesn't do this. So each and every time you want to search you have to first open the charms bar and then start typing. The experience is extremely jarring.

Edit: The latest Wikipedia update fixes this. But it's not the typical behavior in Metro apps. Maybe this will become standard.

[Dot Matrix]

I know. And it's still annoying.

Here's a screenshot of using the convoluted search system:

http://screencast.com/t/NEREzBu9Vk

Now, honestly, tell me that the store search results isn't obnoxious?

Getting back to the search. If you were doing ONE search, then the charms bar wouldn't be so painful. But few people do that. Multiple searches become increasingly tedious.

For example, if they wanted it to work more intelligently, they could have made it so that the default keyboard behavior was search in every app with it remembering the last app. But that's not how it works which I find mind boggling.

Let me repeat this because it bears repeating:

If you're on the Start screen and you start typing, the charms bar automatically pops up with the search field being filled in. This is GOOD. GREAT! WONERFUL!!!

But once you get into the Metro app, typing doesn't do this. So each and every time you want to search you have to first open the charms bar and then start typing. The experience is extremely jarring.

Edit: The latest Wikipedia update fixes this. But it's not the typical behavior in Metro apps. Maybe this will become standard.

Not sure what you are trying to say? You have the search field, and get to pick which app you want to search without even being in it. How is it convoluted? Sure, you don't just get to "start typing", but neither do you in any app in Windows 7, even though you can with the Start Menu.

[Frogboy Administrators]

I don't like having to bring up the hidden charms bar first. It's that extra step.

I think if they changed it to default to having typing bring up the charms bar that would be better.

For instance, the included Mail app. If you're doing a lot of searching, the charms bar becomes a real pain. It doubles the amount of effort to search. That's not a step forward.

The same is true with the included Photos app.

This is what it looks like after all:

http://screencast.com/t/DvNLqKONci

That might possibly be the worst photo interface I've ever seen.

4 previews total? If I zoom out (pinch) I get 30, which is better.

See http://screencast.com/t/DJhFHWbdi2vU to see what I mean. How do I see the file names here? How do I arrange them? Hell, how do I just sort them by date?!

It has no sorting, no grouping, no choices in views, nothing. In the tile view it doesn't even have a way to see the file name. It's an abomination.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with WinRT such that the apps have to look and feel and function so terribly. But Microsoft has done a horrendous job of providing examples of how WinRT should work.

The fact that each app works so inconsistently means that the WinRT ecosystem may end up like the DOS days where every app tries its hand at a UI.

[HawkMan]

The search charm works great, I'm not seeing the problem here. it's neither unusable or "obnoxious". it simply works, and it works good, and I can search any app from anywhere.

I don't like having to bring up the hidden charms bar first. It's that extra step.

I think if they changed it to default to having typing bring up the charms bar that would be better.

For instance, the included Mail app. If you're doing a lot of searching, the charms bar becomes a real pain. It doubles the amount of effort to search. That's not a step forward.

The same is true with the included Photos app.

This is what it looks like after all:

http://screencast.com/t/DvNLqKONci

That might possibly be the worst photo interface I've ever seen.

4 previews total? If I zoom out (pinch) I get 30, which is better.

See http://screencast.com/t/DJhFHWbdi2vU to see what I mean. How do I see the file names here? How do I arrange them? Hell, how do I just sort them by date?!

It has no sorting, no grouping, no choices in views, nothing. In the tile view it doesn't even have a way to see the file name. It's an abomination.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with WinRT such that the apps have to look and feel and function so terribly. But Microsoft has done a horrendous job of providing examples of how WinRT should work.

You're having a use case issue here, you're complaining that the photo "viewer" doesn't work like a photo management app. want to manage photo's use the library functions in explorer

The fact that each app works so inconsistently means that the WinRT ecosystem may end up like the DOS days where every app tries its hand at a UI.

Eh well, except no, this is exactly the opposite of what we're seeing with Metro/Modern, We're seeing consistency across all kinds of different apps and vendors, more s than iOS and such.

[Dashel]

I agree Frogboy, for me it all comes back to the goofy charms gesture via mouse. Its terribly implemented.

I love that the often repeated solution to any RT issues is to 'go back to the desktop'...Plus, all of the features Frog listed should be a part of any image viewer, since as you mention, even Explorer provides these basic abilities.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Because the Start Screen is Windows 8? It's where everything lives.

You completely missed my point, which is that the Start Screen doesn't have any functionality outside of launching apps - you wouldn't be using it unless that was specifically what you wanted to do. Therefore you might as well launch a fully featured mail client rather than Mail. That was in response to your earlier statement where you said "there's no point in switching over to the desktop from the Start Screen". Whatever you do you have to switch over to a different application.

If you were referring to the consistency of the user experience then that's a different matter but functionality and practicality should take precedence over design. Mail is a good solution for tablet users but I don't see why people would choose to use it on a desktop system, just like I don't see why anybody would even consider using Music on a desktop system. Metro apps run on desktop systems but they weren't designed for them, despite all the protestations to the contrary - they are a backwards step from the software already available on the desktop.

[encarta]

...

You're using it wrong. /sarcasm ;)

[HawkMan]

You completely missed my point, which is that the Start Screen doesn't have any functionality outside of launching apps - you wouldn't be using it unless that was specifically what you wanted to do. Therefore you might as well launch a fully featured mail client rather than Mail. That was in response to your earlier statement where you said "there's no point in switching over to the desktop from the Start Screen". Whatever you do you have to switch over to a different application.

If you were referring to the consistency of the user experience then that's a different matter but functionality and practicality should take precedence over design. Mail is a good solution for tablet users but I don't see why people would choose to use it on a desktop system, just like I don't see why anybody would even consider using Music on a desktop system. Metro apps run on desktop systems but they weren't designed for them, despite all the protestations to the contrary - they are a backwards step from the software already available on the desktop.

What's wrong with music on a desktop ? personally I don't use my local library much, but when I do, I use the Music app, unless I need to clean up my tag, then I use Foobar with a huge multi view allowing me to view music by folders and different tag sortings at the same time.

But most of them time the music I play are streamed int he background through Spotify, WIMP or Screamer Radio. all(except Screamer that doesn't do full screen) are run in full screen, and are just seen when I hit play. after that, I just use the keyboard play/pause and skip.

[Dot Matrix]

I don't like having to bring up the hidden charms bar first. It's that extra step.

You act like that is such a chore... Maybe you should switch back to using a UI that has all the controls on screen? Don't come complaining then when your real estate becomes ****. I really don't understand why invoking Charms is such a chore for people. On a desktop system, all it takes is a flick of the wrist or a small key combo press...

Metro apps run on desktop systems but they weren't designed for them, despite all the protestations to the contrary - they are a backwards step from the software already available on the desktop.

I use a handful on the desktop. Love the chromeless UX they present. There's also those - like Calendar - that fill in missing functionality in the Windows OS. I love that I can make an appointment on my phone and have it sync to my desktops.

[Stoffel]

WTF happened with all the Windows Games

I got an update for most of them, and initially I was happy because all the daily challenges are unlocked now,

But if you play mine sweeper, after every 4 or 5 games in challenges mode you now get a 30sec video ad that you can't ignore

I don't mind ads on the side but 30 sec full screen is to much

Sort it out MS