Doctor: Heaven is real


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aviator189

So, what if it was some average individual rather than a respected neurourgeon who taught at harvard who said something like this??

Would it have gotten this much exposure or ended up on newsweek?

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theyarecomingforyou

No, the point is valid. You cannot be omnipotent and omniscient with free will. Knowing everything means that the destiny of every living organism is already mapped out.

That's not true. If such a God were to live outside of the constraints of time then they would be able to see the 'future' of a person and could do so without having any impact upon their free will. This concept was explored in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Further, omnipotence does not interfere with free will provided that a God does not interfere in the actions of an individual but just their surroundings - for instance, said God could not make a person love another person but they could prevent an earthquake or prevent a person from dying of AIDS. It's perfectly possible for a God to be omnipotent but refuse to use that power, much like I could physically drown a baby but I never would.

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FightAndLive

I don't think that god can see fer sure what will happen(as much people go back on forth on God's cognitive abilities being seperate from pre-destination), instead as science is proving people are more susceptible to certain sins than others. For example lets say god made someone thats very emotional, there are certain things that emotional people will do, and if you can see the whole picture like god can you feasibly create a model of how things will look in the future based on how people will probably act, based on their susceptiblity.

This leads into the question "whether or not people are than responsible for their sins", and God says many times that's not for us to decide, which is why the catholic church doesn't teach that Hitler is in hell. What does this mean for heaven? I think that humanity has over complicated the bigger picture, mostly because of all the magical visuals that are in the bible, that were overly portrayed during the Renascence era. What if heaven is on earth? What if heaven is just another planet?

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Growled

I have yet to come across an afterlife experience, where a person visited hell.

There reportedly have been cases of it but it's rare.

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The Rev

I have yet to come across an afterlife experience, where a person visited hell.

There's this magical new world called Youtube.... Not sure if you've heard of it.

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rfirth

Could an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that even he could not lift it? If he could lift the rock, then it seems that the being could cease to be omnipotent, as the rock was not heavy enough; if he could not, it seems that the being was not omnipotent to begin with.

The answer "well yeah, but God doesn't want to do that so it doesn't matter" is not a sufficient.

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a.mcdear

If he had ever taken DMT in his lifetime, he wouldn't be so quick to correlate his experience with "proof" of heaven.

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Calum

If the proof was there to get how would you prove it?

That's up to the person making the claim to sort out. The burden of proof is on that person, and they must figure out how to get that proof, considering they're the person making the claim.

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-Deleted-

These stories always make me chuckle. If he claims to be a man of Science then I'm sorry there is no place for Religion. If you believe Science and are into as much as this guy clearly is it just makes it so much harder to believe in God/Heaven and hocus pocus...As a Science lover myself I find it ridiculous that people can hold both in such high lights, Science disproves Noah's Ark, The great flood, Adam and Eve, and did i forget to mention the "TALKING SNAKE"...

On topic about the "heaven experience"...I read somewhere from a few sources that a naturally occurring drug inside our heads which is commonly known as DMT is released in massive numbers when you die, or obviously have this sort of trauma. This man was hallucinating thanks to this DMt basically making him trip...If he took DMT now he would most likely have the exact or just as vivid experience.

I've heard most users of DMT visit alien species, God/'s and even feel they know the meaning of life after the trip. DMT is strong than any type of ACID but only last for a short time, which means people tend to remember exactly what happened during the trip.

If you're in doubt look at the sources and research on DMT...It basically answers everything this man is claiming to have seen/felt.

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FightAndLive

That's up to the person making the claim to sort out. The burden of proof is on that person, and they must figure out how to get that proof, considering they're the person making the claim.

there are people that think the moon isn't real, what level of certaintenty is required for something to be true varies from person to person. What would you consider proof of heaven?

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Praetor

Come up with an experiment in which:

  1. The results can be reproduced consistently.
  2. The results can be reproduced in a controlled environment, and cannot be falsified through other evidence (i.e. brain scans indicating dream activity) or experiments (i.e. testing the drugs used on the test subjects)
  3. Resulting testimony from test subjects matches the original hypothesis.
  4. The initial theory can be modified as necessary when new evidence is presented.

There's an ongoing experiment in a certain hospital in America (can't remember the name, sorry; saw that in a documentary in the Discovery Channel a couple of months ago) where there's some hidden cards in the operations rooms (near the ceiling); they did that because they had some patients experienced out-of-the-body phenomena while on a operation. Since those patients reported they were floating and remembering what the medical crew said, the hospital is trying to prove that, if it's a real experience and not a product of them brains, they should see what those cards are.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_%28ancestor_of_Noah%29

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FightAndLive

I think that study proved that each person saw the picture frame that was turned upside down on a shelf high up facing towards the ceiling.

Last I heard they were checking all the data for tampering, eg ensuring non of the hospital staff mentioned something about what the pic was before the science team asked the patient about there experience.

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francescob

We saw a talking bush becoming president, what other proof of God existence do you need?

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Praetor

We saw a talking bush becoming president, what other proof of God existence do you need?

lol

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hdca18

His experience appears to be legitimate and fits with the experience described by others who have claimed to pass the life-death threshold and return. For those who think it is dreaming, no neocortex function = no dreaming. It means absolutely zero electrical impulse going to this area of the brain, therefore the brain cannot produce any impulses, images, sounds, etc.

Given that this experience came from a well known scientifically proficient and highly respected medical official, it gives the formerly thought notion of life-after-death and heaven more credibility.

Science still lacks in explaining many phenomena in this world. The pursuit of science will ultimately lead us to places where the only things left to interpret will be spiritual in nature.

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Yogurtmaster

Come up with an experiment in which:

  1. The results can be reproduced consistently.
  2. The results can be reproduced in a controlled environment, and cannot be falsified through other evidence (i.e. brain scans indicating dream activity) or experiments (i.e. testing the drugs used on the test subjects)
  3. Resulting testimony from test subjects matches the original hypothesis.
  4. The initial theory can be modified as necessary when new evidence is presented.

Great, you can give us the scientific method, that is used in the NATURAL world. Can you give me the same thing outside of the natural world? LOL

That is like going to a medical doctor to get work done on your car.

There is more proof than natural scientific proof. Eyewitness proof can be used in courts every day. You guys have been brainwashed into thinking the scientific method fits everything.

It's for NATURAL SCIENCE in the NATURAL world. Just because you can't prove it using the scientific method does not mean it does not exist. That is very limited thinking and very closed minded.

It's okay to be skeptical and question, but it's not okay to close everything off in your mind when it doesn't fit your method.

If you are an intellectual, you know that it's not okay to ignore everything that doesn't fit your world view.

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TPreston

His experience appears to be legitimate and fits with the experience described by others who have claimed to pass the life-death threshold and return. For those who think it is dreaming, no neocortex function = no dreaming. It means absolutely zero electrical impulse going to this area of the brain, therefore the brain cannot produce any impulses, images, sounds, etc.

Given that this experience came from a well known scientifically proficient and highly respected medical official, it gives the formerly thought notion of life-after-death and heaven more credibility.

Science still lacks in explaining many phenomena in this world. The pursuit of science will ultimately lead us to places where the only things left to interpret will be spiritual in nature.

Argument from ignorance and appeal to authority fallacy's all combined in a single post, Nice :rolleyes:

Great, you can give us the scientific method, that is used in the NATURAL world. Can you give me the same thing outside of the natural world? LOL

That is like going to a medical doctor to get work done on your car.

There is more proof than natural scientific proof. Eyewitness proof can be used in courts every day. You guys have been brainwashed into thinking the scientific method fits everything.

It's for NATURAL SCIENCE in the NATURAL world. Just because you can't prove it using the scientific method does not mean it does not exist. That is very limited thinking and very closed minded.

It's okay to be skeptical and question, but it's not okay to close everything off in your mind when it doesn't fit your method.

If you are an intellectual, you know that it's not okay to ignore everything that doesn't fit your world view.

First you have to prove that there is something other than the natural world, Second That means the muslim I posted just proved islam :rofl:

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Yogurtmaster

Argument from ignorance and appeal to authority fallacy's all combined in a single post, Nice :rolleyes:

First you have to prove that there is something other than the natural world, Second That means the muslim I posted just proved islam :rofl:

Can you accept anything else but the scientific method as proof?

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Praetor

Science still lacks in explaining many phenomena in this world. The pursuit of science will ultimately lead us to places where the only things left to interpret will be spiritual in nature.

Very true; the documentary Fight Science on The National Geographic http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/episodes/fight-science/ had a very cool moment; they were trying to, scientifically, show the Chi in a Martial Arts fighter; although they couldn't been able to measure the Chi, the very fact that what that Martial Arts fighter did was scientifically unexplainable.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEOSkqGUK-M <- that video.

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FightAndLive

How would you prove there is a magical realm what if say it's a different dimension and matter can't cross over? What if we are in a virtual world how would you take something real into some place fake?

There are alot of good reason why scientifically we can't prove there is a heaven or hell.

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TPreston

Can you accept anything else but the scientific method as proof?

Not to be a grammar Nazi but the scientific method doesn't prove anything in itself. Anyway yes if a new method of discerning truth from fiction was discovered not jut lowering the bar so jesus can limp on in (Which would also prove islam)

There are alot of good reason why scientifically we can't prove there is a heaven or hell.

And this claim is indistinguishable from any other non-falsifiable claim

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Praetor

How would you prove there is a magical realm what if say it's a different dimension and matter can't cross over? What if we are in a virtual world how would you take something real into some place fake?

There are alot of good reason why scientifically we can't prove there is a heaven or hell.

well i could prove to you, but then i had to kill you :)

it seems this days people are becoming more and more viewing science as an absolutism, like a religion, forgetting that there's many things science cannot explain. Positivism anyone? :laugh:

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TPreston

well i could prove to you, but then i had to kill you :)

it seems this days people are either becoming more and more viewing science as an absolutism, like a religion, forgetting that there's many things science cannot explain. Positivism anyone? :laugh:

And what do you suggest as a solution, Simply accept every non-falsifiable claim ?

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FightAndLive

well i could prove to you, but then i had to kill you :)

it seems this days people are becoming more and more viewing science as an absolutism, like a religion, forgetting that there's many things science cannot explain. Positivism anyone? :laugh:

jokes on you, I'm not going to come back and tell you **** :)

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