win8 Can you install Windows 8 upgrade on a totally empty (ie new) drive?

[Noir Angel]

Then stop beating about the bush and give me an answer, why are multiple people posting that they had that problem with the upgrade media but not the MSDN disk? I'm not buying the argument that these people are lying without reason, so instead of running off and reporting me to the staff, give me a plausible explanation. I'm prepared to listen, I'm just looking for something a bit more compelling than "they're liars".

[Shane Nokes]

I gave you the factual answer as it exists in reality. I've tried repeatedly to give you an answer, but you refuse to listen.

I've told you what would make the difference in those cases, but you refuse to accept it...once again I have to appeal to them to mediate this. :(

[Noir Angel]

You haven't given me anything that approaches an answer, you just keep repeating that the key determines what they can do not the media. Which doesn't in any way explain what I'm hearing people say about the MSDN disks. If what you were telling me was true that phenomena wouldn't be reported, but it is. I haven't done anything wrong, I'm just asking for an explanation, and the fact that you're trying to have me censored for asking a question is frankly pretty sad. I'm breaking no rules here, I'm simply asking why some people are having trouble with the downloadable disk that they aren't with the MSDN disk, a question that isn't answered by saying "they're the same disk" :/

[Shane Nokes]

You haven't given me anything that approaches an answer, you just keep repeating that the key determines what they can do not the media. Which doesn't in any way explain what I'm hearing people say about the MSDN disks. If what you were telling me was true that phenomena wouldn't be reported, but it is. I haven't done anything wrong, I'm just asking for an explanation, and the fact that you're trying to have me censored for asking a question is frankly pretty sad. I'm breaking no rules here, I'm simply asking why some people are having trouble with the downloadable disk that they aren't with the MSDN disk, a question that isn't answered by saying "they're the same disk" :/

I have given you the real genuine answer on this. The key determines the behavior. The discs are the same.

An upgrade key will NOT activate without a prior valid license having been present,

That's the problem though...you're not listening to the answer I'm giving you and that's why we keep going around in circles and why I refuse to take part in this silliness any further.

[Stoffel]

Hmm that is a bit unusual then since as far as I know Honduras should be (not saying is as a definite) supported. The local MS Support group would probably have more information regarding any issues that may be happening.

Sorry that I don't have more info at the moment. :(

I'm trying to find an email address on the MS site to ask for some help but that seems impossible to? They give you heaps of phone numbers but calling from here is kinda expensive

[Noir Angel]

I'm listening to your answer and I understand it perfectly, what you are essentially saying is that these people are lying. I just don't consider that to be an actual answer.

[threetonesun]

I'm confused, is there no Windows 8 retail version any more? They somehow manage to make their licensing worse every time they release an OS. :|

[Shane Nokes]

I'm trying to find an email address on the MS site to ask for some help but that seems impossible to? They give you heaps of phone numbers but calling from here is kinda expensive

Here's the official support site you would need:

http://support.microsoft.com/contactus/?ws=support&SegNo=2&ln=es-es

I do know they have twitter & chat support. Chat support would probably be your best option at the moment. :)

I'm listening to your answer and I understand it perfectly, what you are essentially saying is that these people are lying. I just don't consider that to be an actual answer.

I'm not saying anyone is lying. I'm saying that some of them might be trying to do a bare drive install and that's what is failing. As long as there is a valid prior OS license it will work.

Anyone who has done any sort of license hacks or modifications or such will likely run into issues.

I answered you one last time, but I'm not answering any further. If you choose to believe random person xyz on the net over someone who has worked there on campus that's your decision to make.

I will answer everyone else from here on out...as I have fully addressed your questions and am tired of repeating myself.

I'm confused, is there no Windows 8 retail version any more? They somehow manage to make their licensing worse every time they release an OS. :|

So here's how that works.

The versions you're seeing in the stores with the nice boxes are all upgrade copies.

Anyone who is wanting to do a full install needs to buy the System Builder copy, which doesn't come in the fancy box.

So you can still grab a full install license that way, and the pricing on it is good. :)

[threetonesun]

So here's how that works.

The versions you're seeing in the stores with the nice boxes are all upgrade copies.

Anyone who is wanting to do a full install needs to buy the System Builder copy, which doesn't come in the fancy box.

So you can still grab a full install license that way, and the pricing on it is good. :)

System builder = tied to a motherboard, right? Is there no version with a transferable license at this point?

[o2558804rtrtrcom]

Check this reply.

http://www.neowin.ne...#entry595274309

[Shane Nokes]

System builder = tied to a motherboard, right? Is there no version with a transferable license at this point?

There's actually a new license for Personal Use for System Builder Licenses. :)

Here's the full details:

http://personaluselicense.windows.com/en-US/default.aspx

Here's the pertinent part for you:

Can I transfer the software to another computer or user? You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. To make that transfer, you must transfer the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to that other person, without retaining any copies of the software. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Anytime you transfer the software to a new computer, you must remove the software from the prior computer. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between computers. You may transfer Get Genuine Windows software, Pro Pack or Media Center Pack software only together with the licensed computer.

[xanonline]

It still violates the license terms if you read them carefully. Anyone can toss them a key that they picked up from somewhere on the internet. The reason for the upgrade is to allow it to make sure the license is actually activated on that machine & currently valid.

Keys get blacklisted you know, so just finding a random one on the internet and being able to use it like that it isn't likely.

[Shane Nokes]

Check this reply.

http://www.neowin.ne...#entry595274309

Hello, thank you for that. That's a much more detailed version of what I posted earlier. :)

[xanonline]

Well drat, was looking to replace my mechanical drives in my laptop with SSD drives, guess I will have to install Windows 7 on the new empty SSD then Windows 8. That sucks.

...and what's the problem with that? A few extra minutes of waiting? Not exactly the end of the world.

[Shane Nokes]

Keys get blacklisted you know, so just finding a random one on the internet and being able to use it like that it isn't likely.

Generally that's the case with VL & OEM Keys and such, but not as common with retail keys.

Using a random one for install I agree, but using a random one just to give to someone to verify that it's a working key? Much more likely...which is why the license terms specifically state that you need to have a copy of the OS already installed on the drive in order to do the upgrade.

Any other method is a violation of the licensing terms.

[threetonesun]

Gracias, I was looking on Newegg and they still had the old Windows 7 terms listed. This way is slightly less of a kick in the balls for Mac who want to run Pro. :laugh:

[Dashel]

Javik, I think the short answer is that most people don't have access to the media in question (MSDN/Technet) without already having another valid 'full' key somewhere.

[The Dark Knight]

According to this article, you can. :)

http://www.davejunia.com/2012/10/windows-8-pro-upgrade-experience/

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Javik, I think the short answer is that most people don't have access to the media in question (MSDN/Technet) without already having another valid 'full' key somewhere.

except for the fact that the windows 8 pro MSDN/Technet ISOs have been on torrent sites since they were released

[Stoffel]

Shane, I found my problem, I'm trying to run the Upgrade assistant from Windows 8 Enterprise Evaluation Edition

That's when I get the message that it's not available in my country, if I run it from my girlfriends computer, which has Win7 on it, it runs just fine

Strange error message though

[Joni_78]

That's what I was referring to when I said that it used to be the disc that determined the install type. There used to actually be upgrade/full install discs...and as long as you knew what you were doing you could use an install key to do a full install.

This is no longer the case since the key itself determines what happens. :)

This is my last time stating this, and it is fact not supposition. So please do not keep posting your doubts over and over again.

The KEY determines the install type, not the media.

The difference is who still has a base OS install that is eligible for upgrade vs those who do not. NOTHING prevents a clean install using those keys as long as there is still a base OS installed. You can reboot and do a completely clean install with the upgrade discs...as long as there is a base OS still present on the HD...you can even wipe the HD once it verifies an eligible license is present.

That's not how it works with Upgrade Assistant. I got Retail disc from TechNet, I installed it and activated with the key I got from upgrade assistant. I installed on a NEW empty SSD, that computer had no other drives.

What seems to determine if it activates it succesfully is one registry key. When doing a clean install, by default that registry key is 0 when installing from Retail disc and activates ok, if installed from upgrade media that key is 1 by default and your activation fails. Changing that key to 0 when installed on upgrade media activates it without errors.

I think that the keys that come trough upgrade assistant are actually full retail keys, not upgrade. Upgrade media that it downloads, limits if it can be used as a clean install or not. Dunno why they did the upgrade assistant like this.

But it's true that usually it has worked as you stated, this is just how upgrade assistant works, it gives retail keys and it is limited as upgrade on media.

[Shane Nokes]

According to this article, you can. :)

http://www.davejunia.com/2012/10/windows-8-pro-upgrade-experience/

Actually that's not what that article says at all. That article details an upgrade from a hard drive that has a modified Win7 install.

So that doesn't answer the question. I already provided the correct answer.

[The Dark Knight]

Actually that's not what that article says at all. That article details an upgrade from a hard drive that has a modified Win7 install.

So that doesn't answer the question. I already provided the correct answer.

Oh ok, my bad. Didn't read all the posts in this thread!

[Shane Nokes]

Shane, I found my problem, I'm trying to run the Upgrade assistant from Windows 8 Enterprise Evaluation Edition

That's when I get the message that it's not available in my country, if I run it from my girlfriends computer, which has Win7 on it, it runs just fine

Strange error message though

Ah. That would explain why you got an error message. I agree that the one you received is strange though...glad you got it sorted. :)

[The Dark Knight]

this is just how upgrade assistant works, it gives retail keys and it is limited as upgrade on media.

So if I were to use a Retail ISO downloaded from Technet /MSDN with a key bought from the Upgrade Assistant Wizard, it would allow me to do a clean installation on a formatted /brand new HDD?