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You could try a couple of things:

1. Install Windows Live Mail on your desktop (I use it for my default email program), then you will not have that above problem. Also, it will sync with your Mail app seamlessly.

2. Or go to "Default Programs" and choose "Mail" app as your default program, and click "set this program as default" then clock "OK." This might work, but I am not sure.

1. I don't want to install Live Mail and don't want to use it. Ever. I want to use the metro one.

2. That was the first thing i tried (the error msg suggest you to do so) but that didn't changed anything.

Is there a free start menu out there? all tough I don't like the idea installing a 3rd party app just for that.

Just to make things clear, I'm not bashing windows 8 (yet)

Just wanted to know if i'm the only one feeling that those tiles are pure hype and will die sometime soon on pcs.

Why would i want to open something full screen (unless its a movie \ picture\ game) when i'm on my computer. I don't get it.

The metro part is aimed at tablets... So you are definitely not alone... Install a start menu replacement and you should be good to go... except for things where you have no choice since some pc settings are only available on metro... and removed from the control panel...

Even though they have a new start screen, I still don't see the reason why they had to remove / Hide the "Start Button", that's just stupid. Unless you are on a tablet, and then it makes total sense..........I see what I did there!

Not sure what you mean, it's on the Charms Bar.

I've been using it for a week now and I still feel pretty much lost.

I miss the start menu! All I did there is used the search and click My Computer but I keep going to the corner of the screen searching for it.

Metro is ..idk, not for me. Why the apps takes a few seconds to load? Sure, every application we use takes a few seconds to load but with metro the stupid splash screen stops me from doing any thing else. It's like metro takes me to a completely other place in windows with its full screen etc' and i don't like it. Makes me feel disconnected.

How much time it took you to adjust to windows 8?

Dude if it's so hard for you to adjust to win8 then go back to win7 LOL

Embracing change can be a good thing. A lot of people fail to realize though that embracing change for the sake of change is generally a bad idea. This is one of those times where it's bad.

Thank you for this very specific example of how change is bad. :rofl:

There's very little "change" in Windows 8. It's a reorganization or some elements, and if you use more than one OS, it shouldn't really appear all that different.

You know those Windows 8 tutorials with their instructions: "click or tap the picture above"

Why are you talking with me about taping? I'm on a pc! That annoys me.

You'd expect Microsoft to implement

If (machine==pc) then tap=NO;[/CODE]

There are PCs with touchscreens.

Embracing change can be a good thing. A lot of people fail to realize though that embracing change for the sake of change is generally a bad idea. This is one of those times where it's bad.

I keep hearing that argument myself, and I still laugh at it. I adapted to the changes made with Vista, I adapted to (and love) the superbar

I hate Windows 8. But that's fine, I'll get used to it, as we all will.

To the people saying "Why didn't they give us a choice". It's simple. They want to get rid of the desktop UI completely. This is the start of the transition to a life after start. Had to start somewhere.

  • 5 months later...

After removing Windows 8 yesterday and going back to Windows 7 I felt like updating this thread.

I hate it! I figured that out pretty fast but needed to hate it in such extent to backup all my stuff and re install Windows 7

* Metro - The all idea seems stupid to me. Every thing is so big like it was customized for the visually impaired

* UAC - Disable it and loose Metro (that's fine) plus you'll get all kind of strange behaviors when it's completely off

* Slow Internet - People might argue on that one but the fact is that torrents were really really slow on my Windows 8 machine. Gone back to 7, Maximum bandwidth all over right out of the box.

I'm sure that a lot of people are happy with their machine, but right now 7 feels like home.

I hate Windows 8. But that's fine, I'll get used to it, as we all will.

To the people saying "Why didn't they give us a choice". It's simple. They want to get rid of the desktop UI completely. This is the start of the transition to a life after start. Had to start somewhere.

Getting rid of the Start menu didn't get rid of the desktop UI one iota.

I can tell you exactly how many Win32 DESKTOP applications actually CARE that the Start menu is gone, even though ALL of their installers refer to it - exactly none.

Users care about the Start menu; applications, and their installers, do not.

Taskbar pinning is still there - the Superbar is still there. Neither feature depends on the Start menu.

Here's another surprise - Win32 games care not a whit about the Start menu, either. (Again, all the installers refer to it - the games themselves could care less.)

The Start menu is like Program Manager (or even File Manager) from the days of Windows 3.x/NT 3.x - a dead duck.

Surprisingly, Windows 7 (not 8) was the beginning of the end for the Start menu - exactly how many new features, or improvements, did the Start menu get with 7? (And how much had the Start menu been complained about - since XP alone?)

Shasoosh - was this a desktop or portable that you had installed Windows 8 on? Which bitness? And what torrent client?

The user, the late user, was only partly correct. He *was* obsolete. But so is the Operating System, the entity he worshiped. Any Operating system, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Start buttons, Program Managers and Reversi (except in Nebraska), that operating system is obsolete. A case to be filed under "M" for Metro - in The Twilight Zone.

  • Like 1

@PGHammer It's a desktop.

Regarding the torrent client, I tried them all but mainly Vuze and uTorrent, I had 6 month to play around with it and I always felt that something is off (60%-70% of the speed I should be getting). After a while I've realized that I'm spending more and more time on Lion (I'm dual booting) which is kinda ok because in the past 6 month I've developed at home a lot more than I used to :).

On Lion I got the same speed I'm use to so I knew the connection isn't the problem.

Could not agree with OP more and that is EXACTLY why Winodws 8 sucks for so many every day users!!

Having to install a 3rd party app for the stupid start menu is absolutely idiotic!!

I've adjusted to Windows 8 some what, considering I don't have it on any of my 8 computers, but from working on other people's brand new systems, I've got the hang of it. Have worked on several Windows 8 machines just long enough to down grade them to Windows 7 mostly!!

I definitely WILL NOT be upgrading any of my machines any time soon, so here's to hoping Windows 7 last as long, or longer than XP!!

If you're looking for a free replacement for the Start Button, I'd recommend ClassicShell. I haven't had any problems with it when I use Windows 8 (which is maybe once an hour a week... I still will go into Windows 7 as that's where all my work is really done.)

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

This!

@PGHammer It's a desktop.

Regarding the torrent client, I tried them all but mainly Vuze and uTorrent, I had 6 month to play around with it and I always felt that something is off (60%-70% of the speed I should be getting). After a while I've realized that I'm spending more and more time on Lion (I'm dual booting) which is kinda ok because in the past 6 month I've developed at home a lot more than I used to :).

On Lion I got the same speed I'm use to so I knew the connection isn't the problem.

Vuze is very VERY Java-dependent - if you have an out-of-date Java version, it can cause issues with Vuze. I prefer Vuze to uTorrent (even in Windows 8) because it has faster transfer rates; however, the Java dependence is a major security headache. (Transmission, another common P2P client between OS X and Windows, has the same Java-dependency issues as Vuze.) What version of Java were you using?

Could not agree with OP more and that is EXACTLY why Winodws 8 sucks for so many every day users!!

Having to install a 3rd party app for the stupid start menu is absolutely idiotic!!

I've adjusted to Windows 8 some what, considering I don't have it on any of my 8 computers, but from working on other people's brand new systems, I've got the hang of it. Have worked on several Windows 8 machines just long enough to down grade them to Windows 7 mostly!!

I definitely WILL NOT be upgrading any of my machines any time soon, so here's to hoping Windows 7 last as long, or longer than XP!!

That is why I said it is a USER issue.

I can get why users are dependent on the Start menu - after all, it had been around for seventeen years.

However, when you start trying to say that it is anything else, watch the theories have holes blown completely through them.

I have no beef to users not liking Windows 8 for user-related issues. However, I have MUCH beef when they start trying to blow smoke up my butt and say it is something else.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • On the topic of being locked out of a service. Recently two different friends of mine got locked out of their Google accounts. Both were hack attempts and one of them is waiting 30 days before he can get back in. He had backup codes and MFA but not a passkey. It was a browser token hack. Anyhow he has to wait 30 days for the dispute or whatever to end. The other person only had a password and is screwed losing all of the email, docs and years of photos. Google won’t help her at all. Her fault because she had no backup/recovery setup. Enable passkeys if possible. Also do NOT use browser based password managers. If using a cloud service make sure it is one you can fully sync to one of your devices so you can back it up. Like a PC or Mac with some backup drive plugged into it. Google is the worst to use IMHO. You can’t sync your photos at all. You have to use the “Take Out” service which is manual and takes days. That service strips the meta data from your photos. Also Google Docs synced to a device are useless without a Google accounts. MS Office/Libre Office is not going to open a link to a Google doc to a dead account.
    • Why you need to take back control of your synced passwords and how to go about doing that by Paul Hill Credit: Pixabay Last month, when Google decided to introduce daily and weekly caps for Gemini, it reignited an anxiety of mine, that you can’t really depend on service providers to maintain features forever, and it got me looking into free software (as in freedom) in other areas too. One app I quickly came across was KeePassXC on desktop and KeePassDX on Android as an alternative to password manager lock-in within the Chrome or Firefox ecosystems. I personally like to switch around with browsers, and using either password manager is inconvenient, so something like KeePassXC was interesting to me. The main issue with it now is syncing; I was not sure how to do that. After a bit of research, I came across Syncthing, a tool I was vaguely familiar with but had never used because it seemed complicated. However, I was completely wrong, and honestly, I think everyone should use it if they use multiple devices. It essentially lets you share folders peer to peer across all of your devices, no cloud services that you don’t control necessary! And it was fairly simple to set up, if not a bit clunky. Since setting it up, I’ve also started using Syncthing to back up other apps too, so don’t think it’s limited to just saving password databases. You can use it for pretty much anything you use Dropbox or Google Drive for. Before continuing to talk about those apps a bit more, let’s walk back a bit and talk about browser sync. Ever since the late 2000s and early 2010s, really, since we have been using smartphones, browser sync has been a necessity of life. I don’t know about you, but I have hundreds of passwords saved. For the most part, they’re all unique, so I don’t remember them and rely on software to manage them for me. Until recently, I’ve relied on password managers in Chrome and Firefox, but what I always found annoying was that it can be hard to transfer them between browsers. Sure, on Windows it is simple enough, but on Linux, exporting bookmarks has been temperamental. It works OK nowadays, but not too long ago, Chrome required you to enable exporting passwords in chrome://flags. The situation is even worse on mobile; there is no exporting or importing of passwords of any kind. You literally have to do it on a desktop, which is incredibly annoying in our mobile-first world. Sync also lets us take out bookmarks, history, tabs, and autofill data easily. To enable sync, it’s just a matter of signing into the browser once, and it handles the rest. It’s nice and easy. Obviously, all this has some issues, including those I’ve outlined above about it being hard to transfer data between browsers, but also things such as account suspension, lost account passwords, and other lock-in mechanisms, such as passkeys, being tied to a specific browser. On a sidenote, I have just removed all of my passkeys because they can make it harder to move browsers. I think the biggest threat to your synced passwords, especially if doing this with Google, is having your account suspended. I don’t ever expect mine to be suspended, but you do hear horror stories on Reddit where people lose access to their Google accounts. Imagine if you have hundreds of passwords, then suddenly lose access to them because Google froze your account, what would you do? So yes, it can be nice to use these syncing services for their convenience, but they also have risks. You may have seen me going on about free software quite a bit in my editorials. It’s essentially a concept championed by the Free Software Foundation. It’s software under particular licenses that grant you four freedoms: run the program for any purpose (0), study and change the source code (1), redistribute copies to others (2), and the freedom to distribute modified copies to others (3). For example, if there is an app I use and one day it gets abandoned by the developer, I can keep running it or even clone the software and continue developing it. Look at the myriad of cool services Google has run over the years before killing them. You can’t take the source code for those because they are proprietary, for the most part. Both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so I get the freedoms listed above. In my use case where I’m syncing a database full of my passwords, I also get proper ownership over my data, there is no losing access to the database due to a frozen account, I can access the code of the tools I’m using, and I can get support from real people online if I run into issues, rather than having to consult a vague help page from an opaque company. With the KeePassXC password manager, you create a .kdbx file, which is what will be synced between devices. KeePassXC has cross-platform apps and also has browser extensions so that the browser can fetch passwords from the database once it is unlocked. Meanwhile, Syncthing is a peer-to-peer file sync tool where you can select folders to sync between your devices. Just pop files in the folders you choose, and then they will be available across your other devices whenever they come online. Syncthing is resilient as it works over both LAN and the internet and only ever sends content between your devices, never to a third-party server somewhere else. By combining these two pieces of software, you can essentially replicate the browser sync functionality. I have had a weird, conflicting issue where a new file is appearing, but it doesn’t seem to be impacting my main password database, which is updating between devices just fine. If you want to get a setup similar to what I have, you will need to go here to download KeePassXC for your computer. Once you have that, you will need to download your passwords from your web browser to a CSV file. In Chrome, you can type chrome://password-manager/settings into the URL bar, and you should see an option to download your passwords under Export Passwords. This will give you the CSV file you need for importing into KeePassXC. If you use a different browser, just use a search engine and type “browser-name export passwords” and muddle along. In KeePassXC, you’ll want to press Import File from the home screen, select the CSV file, and create a new database from it. On one of the screens of the wizard, there will be a Title field with a drop-down selected to none. Change this to Title and continue. You’ll select a name for the database, the encryption level (the defaults are fine), and then you will pick a password. I would choose four unrelated words that are easy for you to remember, as you’ll be typing them fairly often to access your passwords. When you have all your passwords in your new database, you will want to set up the browser extension so that your browser can fetch passwords from KeePassXC. Rather than explain how to do that here, refer to KeePassXC’s guide on how to set it up properly. Once you’ve got that set up, you want to install KeePassDX on Android. You can grab it on the F-Droid store and the Google Play Store. For iPhone users, there are other .kdbx-supporting apps, but I haven’t tried any of them, so have a look around and use what suits you. Once you have that done, you will want to install Syncthing on your computer and find a third-party app for your mobile device. On Android, I use an app called BasicSync; there are also options for iOS, but again, I’ve not tried these. Once you’ve got SyncThing, you’ll want to set it up and connect all of your devices together and share a folder between your gadgets. PCWorld has a good tutorial on setting up a synchronized file between your devices using SyncThing. Once you’ve set it up, congrats, you’ll never have to touch that stuff again except for adding or removing devices. I’ll be honest, I didn’t particularly like setting up Syncthing. It didn’t take me a massive amount of time, but I think I had to check online because I found it a bit confusing. That said, I’ve had it running for several weeks now and never need to touch the Syncthing settings, so that’s very nice. I also mentioned a conflicting file. I’m not sure why this is appearing, but the main .kdbx file seems to be updating and syncing just fine. What’s nice is that both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so they won’t just vanish one day; you can take the code and fork the project or use a range of alternative implementations that others have made. It’s also nice that it works over LAN, so even if your ISP is having problems, your passwords will still sync. One area where you will want to be a bit more careful with this setup is if you only have one device. I am OK because I have a computer and two phones, all synced up. If you just have one device, you will probably want to store a backup of your .kdbx file somewhere else. Obviously, you’ll also want to remember your password really well, too. If you get locked out, it's game over. Overall, if you want to take back control of your computing from big tech, taking control of your passwords is an important part of this. You don’t need to immediately clear out your browser’s password manager; try running KeePassXC and the password manager concurrently for a while to see if you run into any problems. If you do try this out, let us know some other creative ways to use Syncthing. I haven’t really come up with a solution about what to do with my bookmarks, for example.
    • If the price was a dollar, someone would complain "Why isn't it free?" If it was free, someone would complain they weren't being paid to play it.
    • That lens of history will burn if you hold it at the right angle... Warn users too late: Shame, Microsoft! That extremely minor update to an obscure Control Panel widget required 2 years of warning. Warn users too early: Shame, Microsoft! We've got better things to do. Pipeline and process be damned, we'll just always be disappointed, eh?
    • Microsoft Paint used to be my favorite Windows app as a kid, and it's still pretty good by Usama Jawad I have been using Windows since the early 2000s, when I was around 10 years old or so. I vaguely remember playing around with Windows 98 and Windows 2000, but that may have been on school PCs which had old operating systems installed. My main OS on the home PC, and the one I recall spending most time with, was Windows XP. At that time, I used the home PC to create Word and PowerPoint documents for school, but a lot of the time, I simply used it to play games. My dad would bring game discs which we would try and install on the PC, sometimes unsuccessfully, and sometimes, we would rely on flash games in the browser, like Bubble Trouble on Miniclip. However, the problem with the latter approach was the internet speed. On a good day, our dial-up internet would offer us speeds of 56 kbps, but on most days, it was closer to 33 kbps. This did not facilitate online gaming as I would often have to wait minutes for a game to load or "draw" on the screen, and trying to download pirated games wasn't simple either. I remember getting tired of waiting for online games to load and just downloading simulator games from the Big Fish Games website instead, only to be disappointed after finding out that I was just being given access to trial versions of the title, and I needed to fork out money to pay for the full version. All of this is to say that it wasn't very easy to find entertainment options on the home PC when I was a kid, due to a number of reasons, mostly outside of my control. This situation pushed me towards a rather unconventional ally: Microsoft Paint. Whenever the internet wasn't working as good as I expected, I would simply spin up Paint and draw complete rubbish on the canvas. Of course, that wasn't always the intention, but it usually happened when I messed up drawing a straight line or something, and then I would give up on that particular piece and simply draw a random collection of objects. Microsoft Paint was extremely accessible and easy to use. Even if you weren't an artist, you could quickly understand the tools at your disposal and how to leverage them on a canvas. The absolute breadth on offer ensured that each painting was truly unique, as you could utilize various combinations of tools like the pencil, paint, spray paint, and more to truly personalize your creation. Since I wasn't particularly good at drawing both on digital screen or a physical screen, I remember that my main style of art would be to insert a bunch of randomly intersecting lines and then fill them with random colors through the paint can. I have trying to replicate that art style in the latest version of Paint below, and as you can see, it's truly Pablo Picasso-esque. The human imagination truly knows no bounds Microsoft Paint kept me occupied for hours and was my best friend when video games on the home PC were inaccessible for one reason or the other. There was no academic or professional reason for which I would need to use Paint, but I still loved using it in my personal time, even if what I created wasn't worth being shown to anyone. It was simply fun. Fast-forward to today, and the situation is mostly the same. Now that I am almost 29 years old, and I still have no reason to use Microsoft Paint in a professional capacity. In fact, I don't even use it in a personal capacity, except to dabble with it from time to time, just to see if core functionalities are still intact. And I'm happy to say that I think Microsoft Paint still offers the same accessibility and inviting experience that it did to me a couple of decades ago, even though its UX has been refreshed and it's been integrated with Copilot features. Interestingly, things could have been a lot different, had Microsoft had its way. Microsoft Paint was marked for deprecation with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update in 2017, and even began displaying a product retirement alert, urging customers to shift to Paint 3D instead. Fortunately, after consumer backlash, Microsoft reversed course on this decision, and Paint continues to be a native app inside Windows installations that can also be updated quite frequently through the Microsoft Store. Instead, Paint 3D ended up on the chopping block, which is for the better, I think. I have intermittently played around with Microsoft's refreshed Paint experience in the past few years, and I do think it has received worthwhile upgrades. the UI and the UX has been modernized while retaining core functionality, and the app is still fairly easy to use. It doesn't meet any of my use-cases, but I've never really had any use-cases ever, as described previously. Of course, the elephant in the room is the Copilot integration. Personally, I believe that this is one place where Copilot does make sense, environmental concerns aside. I know that a lot of creatives use AI to generate images, and while some may be using professional alternatives, Paint still offers a decent casual experience, with the power of Copilot. Of course, you do need to have a valid Microsoft 365 Copilot license and available credits to use it, but even if you don't, you still get the big Copilot button in the toolbar, unfortunately. All in all, I am glad that Microsoft Paint continues to be a native feature in Windows 11, and a piece of software that has evolved to meet modern needs without cutting off its own roots. It's just an iconic piece of Windows history that was an essential part of my childhood, and while I don't use it anymore, I'm just glad it is still there.
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