F1 World Championship 2013 Thread

[theyarecomingforyou]

I know a guy at work pays for an "HD" pack which means he gets Sky F1 without having to pay for sports but I'm not entirely sure what that is.

You just need to pay for HD channels. We don't have any of the regular sports channels but we have F1. It's actually pretty reasonable, because Sky could have forced people to pay for the sports package.

[philcruicks]

You just need to pay for HD channels. We don't have any of the regular sports channels but we have F1. It's actually pretty reasonable, because Sky could have forced people to pay for the sports package.

Na its changed....well at least that option isn't there http://www.sky.com/shop/

if you just choose the basic "The origional" package you get HD channels with it...I don't think you can buy not HD Sky anymore....but there is no mention of F1 coming with anything other than sports...the only mention of an HD pack is one you can tack onto sports to get all the Sky Sports channels in HD...

[Haggis Veteran]

You just need to pay for HD channels. We don't have any of the regular sports channels but we have F1. It's actually pretty reasonable, because Sky could have forced people to pay for the sports package.

 

 

also to get the HD channels is only ?5 a month hardly pocket emptying

[Skiver Veteran]

also to get the HD channels is only ?5 a month hardly pocket emptying

unless your on Virgin Media :(

[Daedroth]

You just need to pay for HD channels. We don't have any of the regular sports channels but we have F1. It's actually pretty reasonable, because Sky could have forced people to pay for the sports package.

That has changed. If you're a new Sky TV customer, you HAVE to buy the Sky Sports HD package to receive Sky Sports F1. That would only buy the HD channels for Sports only. To view the entertainment HD channels, I'd have to buy the Entertainment Extra+ package. I know this, because I enquired only a few weeks ago. So it would cost me ?37 per month, plus the cost of line rental and broadband that I already have with Sky.

 

Meaning I'm stuck with the BBCs poor live coverage, and the worse highlights for those races that aren't live. Don't get me wrong, the coverage Sky give is excellent, but I cannot justify spending so much per month.

[MightyJordan]

Quick heads-up about Sky: the prices will be going up again in September. Found out this morning through the post on the latest bill. saying the sports package will be going up ?1 a month (as well as an extra ?1.50 a month for the entertainment packages, and ?1 a month for Sky Multiroom).

[MightyJordan]

The FIA has announced teams will be allowed to run their race drivers in the forthcoming Young Drivers? Test as F1 seeks a solution to the tyre problems which affected yesterday?s British Grand Prix.

 

FIA president Jean todt said: ?Our priority is to ensure safety for all in Formula One and we believe the incidents at Silverstone represent a genuine safety concern for the drivers.?

 

?We have thus taken the decision to alter the Young Driver Test to allow teams to use drivers they deem fit to carry out tyre development work in a bid to solve the problems we saw at the British Grand Prix.

 

?I believe it is fitting to carry out this work at the circuit upon which the issues were manifested.?

 

The test takes places on July 17th to 19th, after this weekend?s German Grand Prix. However the FIA added the length of the test may be extended by one day.

 

The FIA intends to allow drivers ?who have competed in more than two F1 World Championship events provided it is clear that the purpose of them doing this is to test tyres for Pirelli?.

 

The sport?s governing body it has ?asked Pirelli for an assurance that there will be no repetition of the tyre problems at this weekend?s German Grand Prix or at subsequent grand prix [sic].?

 

In order to accommodate the change to the testing plan the FIA requires the agreement of teams to amend article 22.4h (i) of the Sporting Regulations and article 12.6.3 of the Technical Regulations. These govern the dates on which testing may take place and changes to tyre specifications.

 

The FIA added Mercedes has agreed not to participate in the test following the ruling handed down by the International Tribunal last month.

 

Red Bull had previously announced Antonio Felix da Costa and Carlos Sainz Jnr would drive for them at the test.

 

 

 

So now, the Young Drivers' Test is essentially an in-season test before the new rules get implemented next year.

[Noir Angel]

Under the circumstances a reasonable decision IMO. It looks for the short term that a return to the 2012 tyres will be happening, they will do extremely well to have them ready for next weekend's GP

[123456789A]

Under the circumstances a reasonable decision IMO. It looks for the short term that a return to the 2012 tyres will be happening, they will do extremely well to have them ready for next weekend's GP

 

 

I think Alonso should just show up this week with a set of Michelins on his Ferrari.

[Noir Angel]

It's hard to imagine it making his car go much slower :P

[Skiver Veteran]

Damage on Perez's car due to the tyre...

 

 

 

This made me laugh...

 

[Guest]

Damage on Perez's car due to the tyre...

 

 

 

 

This made me laugh...

 

That's awesome  :D

[MightyJordan]

Kevlar belt tyres for Germany, new tyres for Hungary

Pirelli have confirmed they will use their prototype tyres for this weekend?s German Grand Prix following the series of failures seen at Silverstone.

 

F1?s official tyre supplier previously tried to introduce the revised constructions following the delaminations which occured at the Spanish Grand Prix. But the move was blocked by Ferrari, Lotus and Force India, who claimed the change would make it harder for them to be competitive.

 

The tyres, which use Kevlar belts instead of steel ones, have been tested by the teams during practice at the last two races. But both days? running were affected by rain, limiting the opportunity teams had to evaluate them properly.

 

In light of the failures seen at Silverstone, which Pirelli blame on multiple factors, Kevlar-belted rear tyres will be used at the German Grand Prix. The front tyres will remain unchanged.

 

At the following race in Hungary Pirelli will introduce a new range of tyres which will combine the structure, construction and belts used in 2012 with the compounds used on the 2013 tyres.

 

The revised tyres will be tested at Silverstone on July 17th to 19th. This was originally designated as a Young Drivers Test until the FIA ruled yesterday that race drivers could participate in it for the purpose of tyre testing.

 

Lewis Hamilton, Felipe Massa, Sergio Perez, Jean-Eric Vergne and Esteban Gutierrez all suffered tyre failures during the British Grand Prix. Nico Rosberg and Fernando Alonso were among those who narrowly avoided similar failures and some drivers were showered with debris when tyres exploded at high speed.

[Eddo89]

The guys that had their punctures:

-Hamiton

-Perez

-Massa

-Vergne

 

I really am not too sure about Vergne as a driver, I get the impression he is quite quick but isn't all that consistent. But the first 2 are notorious over aggressive drivers and Massa is a serial kerb cutter (if you think back to Monaco a couple years back).  I didn't even remember Gutierrez having his tyre blown but being a newbie to the scene, my guess he will have more than a couple less-than-ideal-cornering that likely involved some kerb. And didn't Hamilton and Massa already had a tyre failure already this season?

 

My point is, it is very likely drivers had contributed to their downfall in this regard due to how they drive, not necessarily their fault. Some drivers are more aggressive with their tyres, some take wide lines etc, they just didn't get the luck in this instance. These tyres had been used a while, they are known to degrade, but we haven't seen them blowing up every few laps like we had in Silverstone. The race track must be part of the reason, you don't have 4 or 5 tyre explosions in one race but not in any other race, and I believe it happened to both the medium and hard compound. As for Pirelli, debris are everywhere in F1, you simply can't have tyres bursting every time there are sharp things on the floor from contact, unless you ban Grosjean and Perez from racing. They are hindered by the lack of testing, but there are minimum expectations which is to that it is safe to race on. Horner is generally over the top with his rhetoric but he is right, Alonso could had been killed or seriously injured; like Massa in Monza when he slammed into parts fallen off Barrichello's car. 

 

Between Hamitlon furiously blaming the tyres, Silverstone erecting a wall of defense, Pirelli whinging, Horner busy point fingers, there is not a lot of responsibility and clear thinking going on here. Because likely, they all are a cause for the problem in some way. 

 

 

The Kevlar belt is a no brainer at this point. There surely no way it can get any worse than the current ones, the Kevlar was deemed good enough for Pirelli to test so it surely (hope I didn't jinx it) it won't be worse than the current set. 

[MightyJordan]

I think Sniff Petrol's summed it up well in one line from their parody of the Pirelli statement: "We were asked to make s**t tyres. Stop f***ing complaining when the tyres are indeed s**t."

 

 

Meanwhile...

 

Whiting: F1 cars will be "two to three seconds slower" in 2014

FIA race director Charlie Whiting expects F1 cars to lap more slowly next year despite having slightly more power.

 

?I think lap times will probably be two to three seconds slower than they are currently,? Whiting told the JA on F1 podcast.

 

Formula One engines will be downsized from the current V8 units next year: ?We?ve got the new power train coming: a 1.6-litre V6 with all sorts of energy saving and energy converting devices which will, I think, bring the power to a little over what we have right now.?

 

?But it?s very, very complex and the torque management will be very complicated.?

 

?I think the efficiency is the key thing,? he added. ?Just to be absolutely clear, though, you won?t see cars running out of fuel because there?s no limit on the amount of fuel a team can put in the car. There?s a limit to how much they can use during the race.?

 

?There are significant changes to the wing designs in order to reduce the drag,? said Whiting. ?The drag is the thing that had to be reduced to make the fuel consumption work and as you know the cornerstone for this new power unit is only using 100 kilos of fuel for the race.?

 

?And there?s also a fuel flow limit which will be verified and check by the FIA fuel flow meter which all cars will fit inside their fuel tanks.?

 

Whiting also pointed out that the new penalty points system being introduced next year could mean drivers facing race bans in one season due to infractions committed the previous year:

 

?Drivers will be awarded points, or penalised, depending on the severity of the incident. The table we have at the moment drivers are given one, two or three points depending on the severity of the incident concerned. If they accumulate 12 points in a 12-month period they will lose their licence for one race. And this will be a 12-month period so if you get three points in June, say, they will last until the following June, then they'll come off your licence.?

[2xSilverKnight]

I hate those new regulations and the ****ty V6 engine. It doesn't even sound like a F1 now. The sound of the engine is going to change a lot, since it's going to be 1,6l v6 turbo. Bring back development on v8 or v10 engines for gods sakes. I know why they are doing it, but it's not just Formula 1 anymore.

 

And the tyres this year is a ****ing joke, there is no racing anymore, they are just conserving their tires and fuel.

 

Not going to the grand prix next year. **** them

[Daedroth]

I hate those new regulations and the ****ty V6 engine. It doesn't even sound like a F1 now. The sound of the engine is going to change a lot, since it's going to be 1,6l v6 turbo. Bring back development on v8 or v10 engines for gods sakes. I know why they are doing it, but it's not just Formula 1 anymore.

 

And the tyres this year is a ****ing joke, there is no racing anymore, they are just conserving their tires and fuel.

 

Not going to the grand prix next year. **** them

That's probably been said every time the engines have changed over the last 63 years. Guess what, it's still here.

[2xSilverKnight]

 

to continue, I think it?s impossible to point the finger to one party. Pirelli DID suggest going back to previous specifications, but the teams refused, and no wonder. Changing the conditions midway through the season is wrong.

But it?s also wrong to provide tyres that don?t last. And that was what Pirelli was entitled to do. And they failed.

But if the situation is extreme (like we saw at Silverstone), then the whole parties should realize: enough is enough. It?s impossible to race like this.

And that?s where the FIA comes into. They are the ones that failed the most. In the first place, they failed to react, pushing the boundaries of the ridicule again and again. The extreme degradation, the artificial racing, the delaminations, the Mercedes tests? and now Silverstone, halfway into the season, FINALLY, they tightened their belts and went for it.

Secondly, they failed to make a decision. They let Pirelli and the teams blame one another endlessly until we got to this point.

There?s a lot of issues in this. Teams exploiting everything available to the extreme (as they are entitled to do? if there?s not a clear rule or policing). Pirelly being asked to do something that?s hard to do in itself, being penalized in doing so (it?s not good for the brand at all) and being locked into a position where changes are criticized aswell and they cannot test the changes on a real situation. And FIA, for failing to control it all in time.

It?s time to stop the nonsense, stop the crossed accusations, admit what went wrong and move on quickly. And after that, everyone involved should be careful not to bring stupid accusations again if things are not going their way?

Because this is getting seriously annoying.

 

I agree completly with this guy

FIA is failing so hard right now. And next year ridiculous v6 engine is another fail

That's probably been said every time the engines have changed over the last 63 years. Guess what, it's still here.

 

Now is different. They are restricting the engines wayyyy too much.

[JoeC]

Just responding purely to the point about "Hamilton, Massa etc. hammer their tyres more, it's no surprise they get the failures" comment - no tyre should ever fail in that way in F1, it's simply too dangerous. You can absolutely expect to get less laps off your tyres if you rag on them like the more aggressive drivers do, but that should be all you see; your performance drops off and you're forced to pit because of the time difference. If the entire tyre itself disintegrates and a big lump of rubber goes flying through the air, something is badly wrong.

 

And I absolutely appreciate just how hard Pirelli's job is with this, saying "we want top quality tyres that don't last very long" is really setting them up for a massive fall at some point. As it turns out, that fall was Silverstone.

[Daedroth]

I agree completly with this guy

FIA is failing so hard right now. And next year ridiculous v6 engine is another fail

 

Now is different. They are restricting the engines wayyyy too much.

As we have seen, manufacturers are leaving due to the costs of the sport, and because of the lack of environmental enhancement. If Formula 1 stays with bigger beefier engines, it isn't going to attract manufacturers.

[MightyJordan]

As we have seen, manufacturers are leaving due to the costs of the sport, and because of the lack of environmental enhancement. If Formula 1 stays with bigger beefier engines, it isn't going to attract manufacturers.

 

Very true; the new V6 turbo engines for are the main reason why Honda's returning to F1 in 2015 (and hopefully getting McLaren out of their current rut, too).

[Skiver Veteran]

 

Very true; the new V6 turbo engines for are the main reason why Honda's returning to F1 in 2015 (and hopefully getting McLaren out of their current rut, too).

Mercedes current V8's haven't changed for years, its regulated in the rules and was complained about by Renault that Mercedes was known to produce more grunt despite them conforming to the same rules and that Renault did. Renault even wanted to make changes to cope with them. McLaren's downward sprial has nothing to do with the engines otherwise Merc and Force India would be in trouble too.

 

[simonlang]

It's hard to imagine it making his car go much slower :p

it's more about the driver than the car i am afraid. till his tire blownup massa was doing just fine with the f138 last weekend. 

[Noir Angel]

it's more about the driver than the car i am afraid. till his tire blownup massa was doing just fine with the f138 last weekend. 

 

Which is why Alonso has outqualified him at every turn this season, and scored nearly twice as many points?

 

The drivers are not to blame, designers build the car.

[theyarecomingforyou]

The guys that had their punctures:

-Hamiton

-Perez

-Massa

-Vergne

 

I really am not too sure about Vergne as a driver, I get the impression he is quite quick but isn't all that consistent. But the first 2 are notorious over aggressive drivers and Massa is a serial kerb cutter (if you think back to Monaco a couple years back).  I didn't even remember Gutierrez having his tyre blown but being a newbie to the scene, my guess he will have more than a couple less-than-ideal-cornering that likely involved some kerb. And didn't Hamilton and Massa already had a tyre failure already this season?

 

My point is, it is very likely drivers had contributed to their downfall in this regard due to how they drive, not necessarily their fault. Some drivers are more aggressive with their tyres, some take wide lines etc, they just didn't get the luck in this instance.

Except that ignores the fact that Vettel's tyres were about to go, Gutierrez's front left tyre failed and both Rosberg and Alonso had failures but were close to the pits when they happened - that means more than a third of all drivers were affected. In other words it had nothing to do with drivers being hard on their tyres (heck, Vergne had fresh tyres on) and everything to do with the tyres not being fit for purpose. As Christian Horner said, Alonso is lucky to be alive after narrowly missing the debris from Perez's exploded tyre. Even if your assertion were correct?which I have demonstrated is not the case?it is dangerous to have tyres explode like that. We're lucky that no drivers or spectators were injured or killed.

 

The race was very nearly red-flagged and realistically it should have been. Pirelli deserves the blame for this - yes the company has a tough design brief but that's what it's paid for and safety always has to come first.