Restore Start menu but limit it to Pro edition

[c.grz]

So that is the attitude now? Again, why do people protest? Should you go tell those people to just "accept" that they get 50% less money (or whatever they are protesting) and more work? Why do we have product reviews?

We have our right to be annoyed with MS and we can fight the decision if we want to. If enough people feel this way, MS better put things back.

Protesting that you're not getting paid what you're worth and protesting that a company has removed a function in one of their products is not the same thing.

We understand that you're annoyed with MS and that you want to fight the decision; but why? Because your workflow has changed? Instead of saying; give me back my start menu why not say; "here are the changes I would like to see in the start screen."

I'm honestly baffled by this constant need to cling to the start menu. But if you want to continue to protest the change and ask that Microsoft bring back the start menu; go ahead.

For the record; I'm not "for" or "against" the start screen in Windows 8. I'm the kind of person that uses what's given to them and makes due. My wife on the other hand would be here fighting the same fight you are. She likes the way things are and she doesn't like to change.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

In the end, (I can't believe I'm saying this) Dot Matrix and PGHammer are right. if you like Metro and ever intend to use the apps and Start screen environment, then you'll have to use 8 or one of its successors, but if you don't, then Windows 7 is a perfectly fine enough OS for running Win32 "legacy" apps. And since nothing much seems to be changing anymore on that front, you could probably use it for another decade, unless you ever have a need for Metro apps. Obviously Windows 8 can be made to work for Win32 apps, but even if that wasn't the case, it wouldn't really be an issue.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I know they won't bring the start menu back. But it would be funny if they did just to watch, Dot Matrix **** a brick!

[xWhiplash]

Protesting that you're not getting paid what you're worth and protesting that a company has removed a function in one of their products is not the same thing.

We understand that you're annoyed with MS and that you want to fight the decision; but why? Because your workflow has changed? Instead of saying; give me back my start menu why not say; "here are the changes I would like to see in the start screen."

I'm honestly baffled by this constant need to cling to the start menu. But if you want to continue to protest the change and ask that Microsoft bring back the start menu; go ahead.

For the record; I'm not "for" or "against" the start screen in Windows 8. I'm the kind of person that uses what's given to them and makes due. My wife on the other hand would be here fighting the same fight you are. She likes the way things are and she doesn't like to change.

I feel the same way you do about the start screen. What I want to happen is a built in option to boot directly to the desktop and avoid the hot corners. I do not care about the start screen / start menu. But a lot of people do. That affects articles and word of mouth which is what Vista's main problem was.

[MFH]

Did they remove UAC after people protested it? No.

They did backtrack in 7 compared to Vista in regards of UAC...

[c.grz]

They did backtrack in 7 compared to Vista in regards of UAC...

No, they modified UAC. Same thing they'll do with the Start Screen.

[Stoffel]

Haven't they? They have seen what happened to Vista: bad press / word of mouth. I got Vista when it was released and did not have an issue, even on 3 going on 4 year old hardware. When I ask people why they hate Vista, they say they heard it sucks, The same thing is happening here. They ignored the risks so they could force their new interface on us. Now it seems the Windows community is a mess with these two sides.

Windows 8 should have been an OS between Windows 7 and what we have now. They need to at least provide options for those strictly on the desktop.

I do agree with your first point. Win 8 just as Vista has bad press, because a few people didn't like it/ have issues with drivers. And now we get people again saying Win8 sucks without trying it, just because they heard from somebody who knows somebody who said.....

Second point just shows that people can't handle change very well.

[MorganX]

No, they modified UAC. Same thing they'll do with the Start Screen.

You guys are both saying essentially the same thing. I agree with you both.

[Dot Matrix]

No, they modified UAC. Same thing they'll do with the Start Screen.

*They're already doing. Still, whatever of the changes, the Start Menu is dead for good.

[MorganX]

I do agree with your first point. Win 8 just as Vista has bad press, because a few people didn't like it/ have issues with drivers. And now we get people again saying Win8 sucks without trying it, just because they heard from somebody who knows somebody who said.....

Second point just shows that people can't handle change very well.

I think it's more than a few, and I don't think there are that many driver issues. I think WOM is only spreading on the desktop. With regards to Surface RT, it just can't beat or outperform the competition in any area meaningful to that demographic at the moment. Pro is doing well in its segment.

The problem isn't that people don't like change or don't try it on the desktop. Unlike 7, when people who don't like it try it, that doesn't seem to change very often. Not that they don't like change, per se. They don't like what has changed and have no option to change it back, or change it for the better as determined by them. In that case, they don't have to buy it. If enough don't buy it, Microsoft will address their issues. That is the gamble.

[Noir Angel]

I do agree with your first point. Win 8 just as Vista has bad press, because a few people didn't like it/ have issues with drivers. And now we get people again saying Win8 sucks without trying it, just because they heard from somebody who knows somebody who said.....

Second point just shows that people can't handle change very well.

I've used it, and using it just reinforced my opinion that it sucks. The hybrid boot feature is very nice but the fact that my devices didn't work correctly (even though I had the correct drivers) coupled with the start screen and the fugly theme has just turned me back to Windows 7. The performance enhancements are pretty nice, it's just a shame the UI is so horrible.

[f0rk_b0mb]

I know they won't bring the start menu back. But it would be funny if they did just to watch, Dot Matrix **** a brick!

Best comment ever. :D

[MorganX]

I've used it, and using it just reinforced my opinion that it sucks. The hybrid boot feature is very nice but the fact that my devices didn't work correctly (even though I had the correct drivers) coupled with the start screen and the fugly theme has just turned me back to Windows 7. The performance enhancements are pretty nice, it's just a shame the UI is so horrible.

I liked your comment, not because I fully agree with it. But I agree with your experience and right to express yourself. The notion that people are out to get Windows 8 by bad mouthing it without trying it, or just in general being resistant to change is zealotry at best. Everyone including those who like it know that a lot of it is Kludgy and inefficient on a desktop. To the degree it affects you depends on how you work and what you work on, and how often you do a thing.

I like Windows 8 a lot more than you but find Modern UI Search juvenile, amateurish, and imbecilic. So much so I paid $5 for a third party app to return the efficient search present in Windows 7. There are many other issues with the Modern UI UX as well as bugginess with legacy apps (which are the only real apps available) and within the Modern UI itself. The Store is dog slow, updating is buggy and unreliable (and multiply this on Surface RT). The Core apps are crap and the updates just make them bearable.

I don't think it is productive to be in denial of these things and to say "It doesn't affect me, therefore it doesn't exist." Anyone wrestling with Windows 8 obviously supports the Windows platform. Constructive criticism will only make it better. Does anyone actually believe that the complaints and lackluster sales didn't help drive the Core App updates? Seriously now ...

There's a whole lot to like in Windows 8, and a whole lot not to like taken on an individual basis, per user. The Modern UI isn't the problem, forcing it on the desktop is. And I understand why they did it. Doing it in such a hurry is inexcusable, as is the shoddiness of the apps and some of the usability. Microsoft got itself in the Tablet/Phone hole and users shouldn't pay the price to dig them out.

/rant

[Noir Angel]

I can respect that. As I have said all along, I'm in no way advocating the removal of the new bits, just the option to be able to use Windows the way I am used to. I adapt to change when it fits my needs and provides an improvement. Like the superbar in Windows 7, which was a great new feature. I have no issue at all with those that like it, I just wish they would stop trashing those of us that do not. I applaud your fairness, it's a rarity here.

Unfortunately, however it looks like the opinions of folks like us (On the "Modern" UI) will fall on deaf ears. Microsoft's new policy seems to be "We are doing this and if you don't like it you can f*** off".

[MorganX]

Well the most recent Ad I saw for a Windows 8 tablet had MS pointing out "here's" the desktop you know and love and then went on to show Snap to Desktop and Modern UI. So, the message is getting home people liked what worked and Modern UI can compliment that.

Of course I think that's OK for straight tablet PCs. For Surface RT I think that dual identity hurts it. They should have dropped Desktop Environment, sped it up quite a bit, and gone straight consumer tablet running applets from the Windows Store. They might be able to significantly speed it up but I doubt it will ever perform like iOS and Android on Tegra 3.

I can respect that. As I have said all along, I'm in no way advocating the removal of the new bits, just the option to be able to use Windows the way I am used to. I adapt to change when it fits my needs and provides an improvement. Like the superbar in Windows 7, which was a great new feature. I have no issue at all with those that like it, I just wish they would stop trashing those of us that do not. I applaud your fairness, it's a rarity here.

Unfortunately, however it looks like the opinions of folks like us (On the "Modern" UI) will fall on deaf ears. Microsoft's new policy seems to be "We are doing this and if you don't like it you can f*** off".

[cad]

Change is a great thing, but trying to force everyone to buy a touch screen monitor is a money racket.

[PGHammer]

Change is a great thing, but trying to force everyone to buy a touch screen monitor is a money racket.

The real issue is that there has been virtually NO advertising showing how keyboard and mouse users can (and have continued to) use Windows 8 (wilt little to no differences compared to 7) - again, that is because Windows 8 ads are geared towards those buying new hardware - NOT upgrading existing hardware. Therefore, the only way word on THAT gets out is via word-of-mouth (folks like myself, that upgraded). We have to get past the wall of FUD from the pro-Start-menu crowd AND face off against Microsoft's own ads to get our opinions in; it's like paddling or swimming against the tide (a lot like pro-Vista opinions were, actually). Throw in that it's far easier during a poor economy to justify NOT spending, and it has only gotten worse.

The OEMs are driving Microsoft's Windows 8 ad campaign (as per what is USUALLY the case for new versions of Windows); however, for economic reasons, there may need to be a wave of ads targeting those looking to upgrade the OS they already have (a pro-8 case for upgraders, as opposed to those buying new hardware) - when was the last time that Microsoft did anything like that?

[Lprd2007]

SO EFFIN ANNOYING. FFS.

[Arceles]

SO EFFIN ANNOYING. FFS.

You must be another person... kind like dot matrix, looking at your signature makes me wonder...