Restore Start menu but limit it to Pro edition


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Brandon H

Wait a minute. When I install a fresh Windows 7, I do not get thrown into a full screen application. Again, all of this is FORCED on us. We have to perform A LOT of stuff to make it work JUST LIKE Windows 7.

the rest of your post aside, the question once again pops up

if you're gonna go through all the trouble to make 8 work exactly like 7 then why bother even upgrading?

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MorganX

XP is unsupported? That's strange, I thought it was supported til April 18th 2014.

Enterprises cannot wait until it ends to start migrating away. It will be a good thing and in general, improve enterprise security. Depending on their licensing agreements, many will go to Windows 7. Anyone who went 10 years on XP, can go just as long on 7 unless MS finds a way to force them off or entice them off.

With some of the weird issues, I'm thinking Windows 9 will be when Modern UI makes significant headway in the Enterprise but you never know. However, it's going nowhere without apps and games.

the rest of your post aside, the question once again pops up

if you're gonna go through all the trouble to make 8 work exactly like 7 then why bother even upgrading?

The question wasn't for me but since I'm in the forum right now: Because Windows 8 Desktop Environment is better than Windows 7 comparing what is there and what does not irritate. I say if you can avoid the things that irritate, you should upgrade.

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+warwagon

I say if you can avoid the things that irritate, you should upgrade.

By things that irritate you, you mean 1/2 the OS?

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Brandon H

The question wasn't for me but since I'm in the forum right now: Because Windows 8 Desktop Environment is better than Windows 7 comparing what is there and what does not irritate. I say if you can avoid the things that irritate, you should upgrade.

but that's the thing, some of the people i've seen on this forum even go to the lengths to disable other new features on the desktop as well such as the ribbon and other things just to make it exactly like 7 (then there's that one program that just completely replaces 8s explorer with the one from 7). what's the point?
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xWhiplash

the rest of your post aside, the question once again pops up

if you're gonna go through all the trouble to make 8 work exactly like 7 then why bother even upgrading?

Did I say I want it exactly the same? You are also forgetting the under-the-hood changes that Windows 8 brings that are much better than Windows 7. I do not want to have to dig in to the file associations to avoid the full screen image viewer or music player (and other stuff). Not once did I say it needs to be exactly like Windows 7. I said to make it operate like Windows 7. And what I mean by that is to use a standard "windowed" photo viewer, not a full screen one.

I clicked desktop already, why is it taking me BACK to a full screen app. Why do I NEED to change the associations? I never had to do such a thing before because they did not have these annoying full screen applications in previous versions.

but that's the thing, some of the people i've seen on this forum even go to the lengths to disable other new features on the desktop as well such as the ribbon and other things just to make it exactly like 7 (then there's that one program that just completely replaces 8s explorer with the one from 7). what's the point?

See, I like the ribbon in the explorer. The new task manager is incredible. I love the new desktop interface. I just want it to work like Windows 95 -> Windows 7 did. Straight to desktop, no hidden invisible menus/hot corners, and no default full screen apps in the file associations (I am already in the desktop environment, being thrown back to the other interface is not fun). THAT is what I mean by making it act like Windows 7.

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MorganX

By things that irritate you, you mean 1/2 the OS?

Let's not be overly dramatic, 1/2 is ridiculous. Let's settle on 1/4 to 1/3.

For me, Modern UI Search is the worst (Start8 saves me from this) and the core Modern UI apps Music/Video. Mail is actually usable on the Surface RT now. Actually pretty good. Music/Video are better than they were before but, that's about it. I've simply given up on WP8 ever being able to sync with a Windows 8 PC without Media Player Classic plus its missing too much. Video, weak. This will be a third party domain. Waiting on VLC for Windows 8. The Win 8 Netflix app is nifty though.

I would have been nice if WMP had been given a Metro facelift even as a Win32 app. Maybe some new browsing features, enhanced playback, etc.

under-the-hood changes that Windows 8 brings that are much better than Windows 7.

+1

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Dot Matrix

Wait a minute. When I install a fresh Windows 7, I do not get thrown into a full screen application. Again, all of this is FORCED on us. We have to perform A LOT of stuff to make it work JUST LIKE Windows 7. It is not as easy as you guys make it out to be.

So yes, this new interface is forced on us. There is no denying that. We cannot just click Desktop and forget about it as you guys suggest. Because, on a stock install, clicking an image will open up a full screen image viewer.

To get it to work as Windows 7 you need to do more than just click desktop. As you said, you also need to change all of these file associations. Which we never had to do in Windows 7 since nothing was using crappy full screen only mode. I mean really, full screen to see ANY size image? Click an image that is 50x50 and it brings this full screen app.

But that still does not help 100%. What about when you see available network connections? Modern UI like display that fills the entire height. So there is really no way to avoid the Metro/Modern UI like you guys say.

Of course it doesn't work "just like" Windows 7, it wasn't designed to. If you want Windows 7, run Windows 7.

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xWhiplash

Of course it doesn't work "just like" Windows 7, it wasn't designed to. If you want Windows 7, run Windows 7.

What about the under the hood changes? What about the actual useful stuff for desktops?

I want it to work the same way it has for 20 years now (the basic concept). Start8 gives me that capability. But I very much hate third party OS modification tools. MS Should have just implemented a couple of checkboxes.

There is no logical reason why you need a full screen photo viewer to see a 50x50 image. NONE. Why they left those as the default file associations while you are in the desktop mode makes me wonder.

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MorganX

Of course it doesn't work "just like" Windows 7, it wasn't designed to. If you want Windows 7, run Windows 7.

It can get pretty close. If that's what you want give Stardock their $5 or use one of the free ones. The thing is, the 8 DE is so stable, you're not going to spend all that time in control panels or task manager (you'll visit task manager because it's so cool, not because you have to).

The only glitches and bugs I've found are related to Modern UI Apps, so if you don't run those apps, no problem at all.

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Dot Matrix

What about the under the hood changes? What about the actual useful stuff for desktops?

I want it to work the same way it has for 20 years now (the basic concept). Start8 gives me that capability. But I very much hate third party OS modification tools. MS Should have just implemented a couple of checkboxes.

There is no logical reason why you need a full screen photo viewer to see a 50x50 image. NONE. Why they left those as the default file associations while you are in the desktop mode makes me wonder.

Default? So what? Don't like that, then change it.

Microsoft doesn't have the ability to sit and wait anymore, as the market is largely moving on without them. The past 20 years is inconsequential in the long run as they have come and gone already. The bigger focus is the next 20 years.

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Stoffel

I don't understand the issue with booting to the start screen

The first thing you would do if you boot direct to the desktop is start an app by clicking an icon on the desktop/task bar or you click start and launch an app from there.

Why don't you pin your most used apps to the start screen and start the first one from there. If it's a desktop app it will throw you into the desktop automatically anyway.

It's complaints for absolutely no reason at all.

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Dot Matrix

You know, "back in my days" you'd try to make an older OS look like the new one.

http://gizmodo.com/5...-like-windows-7

Those were the days. I had a pretty spiffy XP for the few months that I ran that clunker. It got old fast, though, as I had to re-install XP every so often. Then real life kicked in as I started school.

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+warwagon

Those were the days. I had a pretty spiffy XP for the few months that I ran that clunker. It got old fast, though, as I had to re-install XP every so often. Then real life kicked in as I started school.

How often was every so often?

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Dot Matrix

How often was every so often?

2-3 times a year due to slow downs, rot, updates breaking the UXTheme patches, etc.

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+warwagon

2-3 times a year due to slow downs, rot, updates breaking the UXTheme patches, etc.

Really? I went 3 years on the same XP install. I was also a big UXtheme patcher. I used a bunch of different themes.

Then I built a new machine in 2008 and used Vista then stayed on that same Vista install til Windows 7 RTM'ed then I stayed on that same Windows 7 install til Windows 8 RTM'ed. Usually only reinstalled when I would build a new machine or the next version of Windows is released. I never bring an OS to it's knees.

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c.grz

Don't be obtuse by equating their use. I don't follow your second line though. Per the last, is there some show stopping bug that is preventing your adoption? Why are you waiting for SP1? Why not force them and then report on your top help desk items?

You, as an IT Pro, are going to say in all honesty that there is zero user weight to adding a completely new UI on top of the familiar that is more than just the Start Menu, both in scope and integration? Now we can quibble over how heavy you think it is, but to say its weightless?

What's stopping us is that we just received Windows 7 certification for our inhouse apps. I'm not about to drop Windows 8 and go through that process again; not until the next computer refresh.

Actually we do have 4 PC's running Windows 8 just to see what kind of traction we got from it and 3 of the 4 users have decided to keep using it. And two of these people are in our design and development department. Their biggest gripe was that they can't access the app store because we locked it down.

And if I base how successful migrations/upgrades are using top help desk items after said migrations and upgrades, I'd probably say they were failures. We prepared for the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007; training, books the whole ball of wax. We prepared the users for weeks and then we rolled it out. Guess what happened? Influx of "How do I..." tickets. Even though we'd made sure to go through the points we thought would be hard for the users to deal with.

Zero user weight? No; but not as big as most of the people against the change make it out to be. It won't be any different than our Office migration; a whole bunch of "How do I..." tickets until the users learn to navigate the system.

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Brandon H

lol this has 242 replies

and I don't think the OP has replied once :D
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MorganX

lol this has 242 replies

Plenty of feedback for MS to use to tweak the Modern UI. ;>

If the MS core apps are setting the standard for the Modern UI and apps, we're in trouble. That's why MS is doing the in-house showcase app team.

If there is one true flaw in the Windows 8 strategy is that it was not well planned, not well timed, and not well executed. MS has done that before and they fix, patch, and catch up later. Only usually from a position of total dominance. Here they only dominate the desktop. It will be interesting to see, with the current leadership (which I personally think is somewhat out of touch which is why Tim Cook played them like a fiddle), how well they do from this point forward. The recent core app updates tell me they have left alpha and are now in public beta as far as Modern UI and it's apps. Pinball FX2 is the shiznit though!

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Dot Matrix

Plenty of feedback for MS to use to tweak the Modern UI. ;>

But, everyone detractors has said Microsoft has buried their heads in the sand with regards to the Metro UI. :rolleyes:

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xWhiplash

But, everyone detractors has said Microsoft has buried their heads in the sand with regards to the Metro UI. :rolleyes:

Haven't they? They have seen what happened to Vista: bad press / word of mouth. I got Vista when it was released and did not have an issue, even on 3 going on 4 year old hardware. When I ask people why they hate Vista, they say they heard it sucks, The same thing is happening here. They ignored the risks so they could force their new interface on us. Now it seems the Windows community is a mess with these two sides.

Windows 8 should have been an OS between Windows 7 and what we have now. They need to at least provide options for those strictly on the desktop.

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Dot Matrix

Haven't they? They have seen what happened to Vista: bad press / word of mouth. I got Vista when it was released and did not have an issue, even on 3 going on 4 year old hardware. When I ask people why they hate Vista, they say they heard it sucks, The same thing is happening here. They ignored the risks so they could force their new interface on us. Now it seems the Windows community is a mess with these two sides.

Windows 8 should have been an OS between Windows 7 and what we have now. They need to at least provide options for those strictly on the desktop.

You have options. But if you're waiting for Microsoft to bring back the Start Menu for whatever reason, don't hold your breath. It's dead in Windows 8, and buried in Windows 8 "Blue".

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xWhiplash

You have options. But if you're waiting for Microsoft to bring back the Start Menu for whatever reason, don't hold your breath. It's dead in Windows 8, and buried in Windows 8 "Blue".

So that is the attitude now? Again, why do people protest? Should you go tell those people to just "accept" that they get 50% less money (or whatever they are protesting) and more work? Why do we have product reviews?

We have our right to be annoyed with MS and we can fight the decision if we want to. If enough people feel this way, MS better put things back.

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Dot Matrix

If enough people feel this way, MS better put things back.

Did they remove UAC after people protested it? No. Did they re-insert the classic 9x start menu in Win7 after people protested it? No. Are they going to bring it back after Windows 8? Not happening. Windows 8 "Blue" makes it clear Microsoft is going to focus on the new Start Screen, and Metro UX going forward.

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