Xbox One 500GB hard drives can't be replaced

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

So, they haven't sold any official HDD kits. and that proves what. these technologically inept people don't update their HDD officially or unofficially most of them aren't even aware they can. they start up their PS3, and play games or watch BD's that's it.

You're seriously out of touch with the average consumer.

If that is the case what is your point? That select audience wouldn't replace on the 360 either. If someone doesn't need to update then they don't do it. Being able to user replace the drive is pro-consumer, easy for those that find out how, and in absolutely no way an unachievable task.

How a drive can be replaced is only ever going to be appliable to a consumer that needs to do it. If your mother doesn't need to/care for/or can't replace a 360 hard drive she wasn't replacing a PS3 one no matter how the process is carried out.

My point in regards to Sony not selling official hard drives is that those people that need to or want more space have clearly not had a "99.9%" percentile issue with the PS3 as it's now sold what, nearly 80 million units and Sony have not needed to release any official hard drive addons. That speaks volumes.

[TheLegendOfMart]

So, they haven't sold any official HDD kits. and that proves what. these technologically inept people don't update their HDD officially or unofficially most of them aren't even aware they can. they start up their PS3, and play games or watch BD's that's it.

You're seriously out of touch with the average consumer.

and when the warranty runs out they either send them in or hand them in to be fixed by people who know what they do, and you know what, they PAY for this service. I should know, I'm one of the people who gets paid.

and yes, let's ignore the fact it was SPECIFICALLY STATED on the presentation you can plug in any USB3 HDD and use it for downloads, installs and storage.

Or they just unscrew the one screw holding the HDD tray in instead of spending silly money getting it "repaired".

They said in the presentation you could use USB3 HDDs but not what size. Current Xbox is limited to 32GB for NO reason whatsoever.

[BajiRav]

Or they just unscrew the one screw holding the HDD tray in instead of spending silly money getting it "repaired".

They said in the presentation you could use USB3 HDDs but not what size. Current Xbox is limited to 32GB for NO reason whatsoever.

I think it's mostly limited by the file system used by the Xbox but I might be wrong.

[TheLegendOfMart]

It uses the same FATX file system of the HDD there is no size limit.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Or they just unscrew the one screw holding the HDD tray in instead of spending silly money getting it "repaired".

They said in the presentation you could use USB3 HDDs but not what size. Current Xbox is limited to 32GB for NO reason whatsoever.

It's a bit naive to think NO reason, it's simply to encourage you to buy the official hard drive addons. If you could plug in any external drive and use all the space word of mouth would spread and MS profits would dip.

Kind of like why a mobile hardware maker will offer an 8GB and a 16GB option, the 8GB phone very cheap, the 16GB unrealistically more expensive, and guess what, neither have an sd cart slot (yes looking at you Google). Why? An SD cart slot would make most people buy the cheap 8GB phone and add their own space MUCH MUCH more cheaper than the charge in difference between the 8GB and 16GB phone.

[HawkMan]

If that is the case what is your point? That select audience wouldn't replace on the 360 either. If someone doesn't need to update then they don't do it. Being able to user replace the drive is pro-consumer, easy for those that find out how, and in absolutely no way an unachievable task.

How a drive can be replaced is only ever going to be appliable to a consumer that needs to do it. If your mother doesn't need to/care for/or can't replace a 360 hard drive she wasn't replacing a PS3 one no matter how the process is carried out.

My point in regards to Sony not selling official hard drives is that those people that need to or want more space have clearly not had a "99.9%" percentile issue with the PS3 as it's now sold what, nearly 80 million units and Sony have not needed to release any official hard drive addons. That speaks volumes.

Your original point was that a built in non replaceable HDD was a terrible sin to humanity, but now it was suddenly something else.

If HDD crash, people turn it in for service inside or outside warranty, and hardly anyone, at leas with a 500GB drive won't replace the drive. So this affects less than a fraction of a percentile of the users. Ad due to the external HDD support, they're not effected either.

Or they just unscrew the one screw holding the HDD tray in instead of spending silly money getting it "repaired".

They said in the presentation you could use USB3 HDDs but not what size. Current Xbox is limited to 32GB for NO reason whatsoever.

Really, you know so much about the internal workings of the 360 you can flat out state it is for no reason...

[margrave]

This just feels like an apple move to me . . .

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Your original point was that a built in non replaceable HDD was a terrible sin to humanity, but now it was suddenly something else.

If HDD crash, people turn it in for service inside or outside warranty, and hardly anyone, at leas with a 500GB drive won't replace the drive. So this affects less than a fraction of a percentile of the users. Ad due to the external HDD support, they're not effected either.

Considering I'm an athiest and think the word "sin" is stupid, certainly not :p

It's an annoying anti-consumer decision most of us thought MS would learn from after Sony allowed it on the PS3, that is all. There is a slight concern about what happens if your internal drive kicks the bucket (replacing a PS3 hard drive is "hard"? Try opening and dismantling a console...), and the even smaller annoyance of yeah you can plug an external drive in, but that's yet ANOTHER piece of hardware along with the kinect that needs hang around your TV. With an internal upgrade you bump up from 500GB to 1TB and the box/your TV setup doesn't change or have anything else cluttering it up. Simple.

[spenser.d]

Well you're seriously out of touch with this generation considering Sony have sold absolutely no official hard drive addons and have had absolutely no issues at all. When people run out or low on space they'll consult friends or family or Sony or the staff at Best Buy/Game/Gamestop/Walmart etc.

Playing the "society are all helpless dumb people who cannot use the internet or phone the manufacturer or ask in retail" card in a world of smart phones and tablets and interactive TVs gets seriously flawed.

Dude you posted the same sort of fud during the 360's lifecycle and yet it was extremely successful. I think you're the one out of touch and yet again blowing things out of proportion.

[George P Global Moderator]

The fact they have a specific USB3 port on the side so you can easily connect a external drive and also the internal is not swappable says to me that they're not going to have any size limits on externals. They're not going to be selling their own drives for this like they did on the 360, thus they have no need to limit what you can do through USB.

Regardless, a year after when prices come down I bet you'll see a newer model with a 1TB internal but for now if 500GB isn't doing it for you then any USB3 external hdd you can buy will help.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Really, you know so much about the internal workings of the 360 you can flat out state it is for no reason...

As Audioboxer said, purely monetary reasons. You can pick up USB flash drive or USB HDD for so cheap and no one would buy the overpriced HDD only Microsoft makes.

Flash drives use FATX filesystem just like HDDs and you can get a branded Microsoft 320GB HDD, why can't you use a 64, 128 or 256 GB flash drive or external HDD?

[ctrl_alt_delete]

Legendofmart and audioboxer keeps flooding the Xbox threads and those guys are serious die hard playstation fans.

First they started with how "ugly" the box look, then they down played the cloud computing (completely sidestepping no other console has incorporated this before, not even PCs) then now they're going on about the hard drive completely ignoring that you can just install games movies audios and the like on an external hard drive which virtually means endless hdd space all without having to switch hdd. Man I'm sure you can even plug it in ur NAS.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I'm a die hard Playstation fan because I don't like the Xbox One?

Nice logic. I had an Xbox from launch until 2011, if that's a die hard Playstation fan then I'd hate to hear how you describe someone who buys and uses nothing but Sony/Playstation.

I just enjoy discussing topics of things I am interested in, I was fully prepared to get an Xbox One until the reveal.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Legendofmart and audioboxer keeps flooding the Xbox threads and those guys are serious die hard playstation fans.

First they started with how "ugly" the box look, then they down played the cloud computing (completely sidestepping no other console has incorporated this before, not even PCs) then now they're going on about the hard drive completely ignoring that you can just install games movies audios and the like on an external hard drive which virtually means endless hdd space all without having to switch hdd. Man I'm sure you can even plug it in ur NAS.

I think you'll find PCs have lead cloud computing (Steam/Gaikai/Onlive), PS3/360 came next (save game files) and then Sony mentioned it prior to MS for the PS4 at the February event. Just saying.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

Mixed, w/ external drive options, hitting space limit.

But.... will the Xbox One continue to operate after HD failure?

The OS could be stored on separate (smaller) memory chips.

Example - Early PS3 has enough storage space for the OS indepedent of the Hard drive. However Latter model's has to save part of it to the hard drive.

On the flip side, I've just installed a 1TB HD into my PS3.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

I think it's serious time we start ignoring these guys. I don't see why we should be defensive about their insecurities. They'll always be ps fans and will always try to down play the Xbox.

It doesn't matter if the ps4's GPU is 50% faster. The ps3 had way more processing power than the 360 but look how that turned out.

I've watched both the Sony and Xbox reveal and yeah my house is going Xbox.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I'm not a freaking fanboy, I owned 360 since launch till 2011, I've owned more Xboxes (thanks RROD) and played on them longer than I have PS3.

It does matter that the PS4 GPU is 50% faster, like this generation the PS3 dragged down the graphical quality for the sake of parity between platforms, next generation is going to be held back by the weak GPU in the Xbox One for multiplat games.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

I think it's serious time we start ignoring these guys. I don't see why we should be defensive about their insecurities. They'll always be ps fans and will always try to down play the Xbox.

It doesn't matter if the ps4's GPU is 50% faster. The ps3 had way more processing power than the 360 but look how that turned out.

I've watched both the Sony and Xbox reveal and yeah my house is going Xbox.

Funny, you claim they have insecurities, yet you make comments like the one I bolded above. How exactly did it turn out? With great games on both systems? And almost identical numbers of units sold worldwide even with a year head start? Oh yeah, that turned out so awful. :rolleyes:

Do not blame these two guys for being the only ones to defend their brands. The SAME exact sort of things are said from the other side from those who prefer MS.

[compl3x]

I think it's serious time we start ignoring these guys. I don't see why we should be defensive about their insecurities. They'll always be ps fans and will always try to down play the Xbox.

Just FYI I didn't post this topic to start a fanboy war.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

One thing my girl and I hated was having to find the other remote to switch input to the tv. So it's welcomed that this was addressed in the new Xbox, I'm hoping it has DVR functionality too. 500gb is a decent amount of space. I have a 3tb drive here...think I'll get another one daisy chain them in the new Xbox. So in Essence I'll have a 6.5TB Xbox One, just because I can.

[TheLegendOfMart]

You can record gameplay don't see why it couldn't record from HDMI input.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

Funny, you claim they have insecurities, yet you make comments like the one I bolded above. How exactly did it turn out? With great games on both systems? And almost identical numbers of units sold worldwide even with a year head start? Oh yeah, that turned out so awful. :rolleyes:

Do not blame these two guys for being the only ones to defend their brands. The SAME exact sort of things are said from the other side from those who prefer MS.

When I said look how that turned out I was actually trying to say there really was no difference. That people still bought the box they wanted wether it was ps or Xbox. The processing power of any one console didn't have such a great impact on sales.

So really I dot see what's so wrong with my comment.

[ingramator]

As Audioboxer said, purely monetary reasons. You can pick up USB flash drive or USB HDD for so cheap and no one would buy the overpriced HDD only Microsoft makes.

Flash drives use FATX filesystem just like HDDs and you can get a branded Microsoft 320GB HDD, why can't you use a 64, 128 or 256 GB flash drive or external HDD?

Even though this is off topic I would like to point out some things to do with FATX and external storage. One reason for it being capped at 32GB was to prevent users from formatting a 1TB HDD and rendering it pretty much useless by gifting it with an inferior and one purposed file system. Another very interesting fact is that the modding community (me included :D ) already tried removing the (at that time) 16GB restriction by editing a few headers (I'm not going to explain it all) and upon going over about 20-22GB crashed the OS. Now when Microsoft released the update that allowed for 32GB drives (essentially just lets you use 2 16GB drives) it required that drive to be Fat32 and wouldn't accept NTFS nor Fat16, when trying to push boundaries on this update the same effect occurred. The Microsoft HDDs were already COMPLETELY FATX formatted and posses many signatures, headers and sectors which no one really knows anything about- to protect game fraud is the suspicion.

Now this is the limitation part, the engineering team at MS knew that any avenue for piracy had to be stamped out. If you read an Xbox HDD on Linux or otherwise so you can see the full partition mapping you will notice that 512MB of that is completely untouchable and locked down with all sort of Microsoft crap. This is the same on USB drives. This 512 MB upon close inspection stores information on the last device to write to the disk (among many many other things). If the protected area of the disk is written over or tried to be modified by a device that is not the last Xbox ID stored in that cache then it corrupts via rando partitioning- (it is reversible only by partitioning and formatting) the drives file system . Now you ask where the hell does the 16Gb have anything to do with this. Well your drive essentially is split up into 16GB blocks of which only 4GB (technically 4Gb minus a byte) can be written at a time (think kind of similar to Fat32). The signatures on the PREMANUFACTURED drives actually link these 16GB blocks/sectors together, something that the Xbox formatting tool can't do (even hacked Linux tools don't link properly) and I suspect is something that can only be done to actually physical disks- i'm still stumped on what actually goes on... Now if Microsoft released info on how this linking could be done it would be essentially another avenue into modifying game contents ( I know that kind of jumped quickly- there is a hell of a lot of underground info on this stuff). There would literally be nothing stopping you from ripping the contents of a disc to the HDD and putting in a DVD that contained the games signature that matched up with the one stored in the PROTECTED cache which occurs at the beginning of each 16GB sector. Within each sector that are offsets that can only be read by the Xbox's kernel.

This is where it all comes together, technically speaking MS could open up to 500GB storage formatting for drives by providing support of writing these 16GB sectors and supporting more offsets via an update or whatever, HOWEVER it would require every disk to receive an individual and official Microsoft signature which would at the very least require an internet connection. Now (hypothesising now- no one actually knows a lot about FATX, a very well kept secret indeed) IF the signatures were written to the disk by MS and someone were to analyse what the actual offsets were you would be able to run games off the HDD WITHOUT A DVD by mimicking arcade games. This is one approach softmodders have tried but because we don't know what the actual offsets are on the disks (because as I said before they are protected on the ones by MS which are bigger than 16GB) the OS just crashes.

Anyway that is just the surface and of course I'm sure there is more to the story but the fact that its purely monetary is nieve. There is always more than whats meets the eye with this kind of stuff- not going to bore you anymore, if you want to talk more about the wonderful hacks going on I'm more than happy to talk on PM :)

Funny, you claim they have insecurities, yet you make comments like the one I bolded above. How exactly did it turn out? With great games on both systems? And almost identical numbers of units sold worldwide even with a year head start? Oh yeah, that turned out so awful. :rolleyes:

Um dude I'm pretty sure thats what he is getting at... It doesn't matter that the PS3 had "better" graphics hardware (we could argue for days on the hardware to software efficiency) they both roughly sold the same.

[BajiRav]

I think you'll find PCs have lead cloud computing (Steam/Gaikai/Onlive), PS3/360 came next (save game files) and then Sony mentioned it prior to MS for the PS4 at the February event. Just saying.

Sony is doing Gaikai which is same as Onlive (AFAIK) where pretty much everything is done in the "cloud" (god I hate saying it in this manner).

Steam has no cloud computing at all - just online distribution. If by PCs you meant PC games, I am not aware of any PC games doing anything similar to Sony or Microsoft.

Microsoft on the other hand is taking a hybrid approach where some part of the game engine CAN BE offloaded to the cloud. I think we will know more about this in last week of June.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Sony is doing Gaikai which is same as Onlive (AFAIK) where pretty much everything is done in the "cloud" (god I hate saying it in this manner).

Steam has no cloud computing at all - just online distribution. If by PCs you meant PC games, I am not aware of any PC games doing anything similar to Sony or Microsoft.

Microsoft on the other hand is taking a hybrid approach where some part of the game engine CAN BE offloaded to the cloud. I think we will know more about this in last week of June.

:huh:

Save games? I can play Portal 2 on my PS3 and then transfer my progress to Portal 2 on the PC.

Steam Cloud

How do I use the Steam Cloud features for Portal 2 on my PS3?

Steam Cloud is automatically enabled once you've linked your PSN and Steam accounts.

Portal 2 for PS3 is the only console version that supports Steam Cloud, which allows your settings, and saves to be transferable from one PS3 to another, or any computer to another computer. This allows you transfer your game saves to other PS3s without ever having to backup your save on a USB stick or having to use the PlayStation Plus Cloud service.