Internet is the killer app and it's your ISP who is holding you back


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Showan

Ever since the Xbox One reveal, all I could do is daydream of the possibilities.
People complained about DRM, and how it was pure evil.
People laugh and tease how the cloud is a gimmick.
And people cried that their Internet sucks, and that it wouldn't be fair to them.

Well guess what people?
Is this Microsofts fault your ISP sucks?

Let's face it, the Internet has been the killer App for console gaming, ever since the Sega Dreamcast days.
Microsoft has taken that vision and set a bar with Xbox Live.
Broadband Connection only on the OG XBOX was the best thing Microsoft ever did for console gaming.
If they didn't, bother then, we would probably still have a dial up modem on the back of our consoles.

Now Microsoft is trying to show us an even better Online World (or Universe, I should say) with the Xbox One. And all I hear is complaints about how the Internet sucks where you live.
If a ISP takes your money, you have a right to demand better service.

If the Internet can complain that much about Micorosfts policies and get them overturned, why can't that same energy and effort be used to get your ISP to step their game up?

I use to think "Cloud" was a gimmick too, until I met an engineer a few years back who showed my class how cloud computing works. And the benefits if used right. Borrowing resources from another machine to boost performance of your machine is amazing.

Of course a lot of this depends on bandwidth. But let me ask this, does anyone honestly think today's bandwidths and bottlenecks gonna be the same for the whole 10+ years that the XB1 is out?

There are ISP's that are trying to get fiber from the node all the way to the house here where I live, instead of just stopping at the pole, and coppering out to the house.

Google is already showing a better way for internet. We should be cheering this on, and calling your ISP, and demanding better. If a company that isn't even an ISP can do it, what's your ISP's excuse?

Don't settle people.

Remember the Internet is the Killer feature.

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thomastmc

I absolutely agree that the ISPs are the devil incarnate in the hell that is the IT sector...

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+trag3dy

Microsoft's fault.

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corrosive23

LOL WUT?

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Cheatyface

:huh:

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Showan

LOL WUT?

Stupid iPad couldn't keep up... Too lazy to grab the laptop... And had to click edit a million times...

My bad...

Microsoft's fault.

LOL....

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Crimson Rain

There are ISP's that are trying to get fiber from the node all the way to the house here where I live, instead of just stopping at the pole, and coppering out to the house.

 

I live in a south asian developing country and even I have fiber to my room.

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Nashy

It's not the ISP, it's the infrastructure available.

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Showan

It's not the ISP, it's the infrastructure available.

That's understandable... But if they are taking boatloads of money from the consumer and your Internet hadpsnt improved in years... Then what the heck are they doing with your money....??

Demand that they build out their infrastructure...

I live in a south asian developing country and even I have fiber to my room.

This is what I'm talking about... Progression... (wish I had fiber all the way to my house)...

My speeds are decent 28mbps down and 20mbps up...

And that with copper from the node all the way to my house...

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Nashy

That's understandable... But if they are taking boatloads of money from the consumer and your Internet hadpsnt improved in years... Then what the heck are they doing with your money....??

Demand that they build out their infrastructure...

This is what I'm talking about... Progression... (wish I had fiber all the way to my house)...

My speeds are decent 28mbps down and 20mbps up...

And that with copper from the node all the way to my house...

 

It's not quite as simple as you seem to make out.  I live in Australia.  Look at the size of Australia. 

Not to mention the infrastructure is all owned and operated by Telstra.  Only now are we seeing FTTH rolled out (very slowly), and the new government which will be elected soon is going to change that to FTTN.  Useless.

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jasondefaoite

I have fairly decent internet where I am (200Mbit down / 200Mbit up, FTTH), but I still didn't like the direction MS were taking the XboxOne.

 

Personally, I didn't see an advantage for me with MS adding additional levels of DRM (24 hr checks, restriction on the ability to sell the games when I finish them etc). Plenty of benefits for Microsoft.

 

And it wasn't just an issue with the end customer's internet, by adding the 24 hour checks, you are adding an additional point of failure in the system. It's possible for the MS authentication servers to go down (Sim City anyone), and if your 24 hour renewal was up at the same time, no xbox for you.

 

I'm glad they reversed course. I was not going to purchase the Xbox One as it originally stood. Plenty would. Good for them. I would have gone with the PS4. But now I am still deciding between the two.

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Daedroth

In the UK, some ISPs are restricting in what a person can do. Some still offer monthly caps, such as 10GB, which is useless if you want to stream movies, etc. I'm stuck to purely an ADSL line, because BT or Virgin Media won't fork out to implement new infrastructure. So until then, and until it becomes affordable, I'm stuck on a 4MB line, because that's the 'best' that I can get.

 

As for the DRM aspect, sometimes...not often, but on the rare occasion, we may get Internet outage...but I don't want that to stop me playing games on my Xbox.

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MikeChipshop

I live in the UK and i have damn mediocre broadband. It's my own fault as i chose to move from London to the countryside and i knew full well there would be a degradation in service.

I went from 30mb to 1.5mb in the space of a week. It hurt.

 

The thing is, i was interested in what MS were doing with the XB1 and i even applauded it because it is the future and things like the XB1 will help drive the government initiative, that's already in place, to get a stronger faster broadband infrastructure in place. So people really shouldn't be moaning at XB1, they should see it the same way they see Netflix. It's not MS's fault, it's your ISP.

 

If any one cares to take a look at the profits earned by BT last year, and the bonuses they paid out, then anyone can see it is pure greed. I know they're working with the government to bring faster broadband to more people but that's something they should have been doing for a long term.

When BT was formed it was tasked with maintaining a modern communications network, it's in their constitution, yet they've failed to do this.

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JonnyLH

I have fairly decent internet where I am (200Mbit down / 200Mbit up, FTTH), but I still didn't like the direction MS were taking the XboxOne.

 

Personally, I didn't see an advantage for me with MS adding additional levels of DRM (24 hr checks, restriction on the ability to sell the games when I finish them etc). Plenty of benefits for Microsoft.

 

And it wasn't just an issue with the end customer's internet, by adding the 24 hour checks, you are adding an additional point of failure in the system. It's possible for the MS authentication servers to go down (Sim City anyone), and if your 24 hour renewal was up at the same time, no xbox for you.

 

I'm glad they reversed course. I was not going to purchase the Xbox One as it originally stood. Plenty would. Good for them. I would have gone with the PS4. But now I am still deciding between the two.

Ability to share any game you own with 10 friends? Never needing a disc again? Downloading your whole game library on whoevers Xbox? I'm jumping to conclusions here but from the sound of that, it feels like you didn't know a lot of those reasons.

 

I disagree with the statement regarding ISP's, in the UK its more so down to the government and the relationship with BT. ISP's actually work on very very small margins. 

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MikeChipshop

 ISP's actually work on very very small margins. 

 

BT's profits and paid out bonuses were whopping last year, not mention the huge grants from the government.

 

Sorry i can't provide a source or figures, i'm on my phone and it's a PITA arse but Google should have them.

 

 

At the end of the day, the upgrade is happening, it'll be a few years yet but it is on the way.

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JonnyLH

BT's profits and paid out bonuses were whopping last year, not mention the huge grants from the government.

 

Sorry i can't provide a source or figures, i'm on my phone and it's a PITA arse but Google should have them.

 

 

At the end of the day, the upgrade is happening, it'll be a few years yet but it is on the way.

BT have a very hard and thorough process to get any funding or work approved. Most of their setbacks on projects is due to tight legislation and getting work approved.

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MikeChipshop

Stupid isn't it?

 

Government wants a stronger communications architecture, BT has funds available, different government department slows down uptake with rules and regs.

 

Red tape screws us all.

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+trag3dy

Stupid iPad couldn't keep up... Too lazy to grab the laptop... And had to click edit a million times...

My bad...

LOL....

 

What exactly was microsoft trying to do with this amazing new universe you're describing? The only reason MS wanted their xbox to revolve around an internet connection was to monetize every aspect of it they could. Consumers called them out on their ######.

 

The issue of crappy internet "holding us back", as you put it, has nothing to do with Microsoft or the xbox one.

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Showan

What exactly was microsoft trying to do with this amazing new universe you're describing? The only reason MS wanted their xbox to revolve around an internet connection was to monetize every aspect of it they could. Consumers called them out on their bull****.

 

The issue of crappy internet "holding us back", as you put it, has nothing to do with Microsoft or the xbox one.

XBOX live is going to become a more than than what you see now...

SKYPE, LIVE, XBOX, & too some extent Windows will be start to become a blurr... Sprinkle some Playstation Home (all the stuff that didn't suck about home) for good measure...

The deidicated servers are for more than what people realize... ReSpawn & the Forza team are just little things right now...

But as Bandthwith gets better, things like "Loading" should all but vanish because (no matter the draw distance, or switching between levels, and environments) that data will already be pre-fetched as soon as you venture close to a level change or environment shift.

And if you decide to backtrack, it starts to off load that data back to the cloud/servers.

Or how about a World that never sleep (literally).. You are a Kingpen in a game, and you are at work, you have to pull out your phone or get to a browser and still protect your fort, house, etc... You are given a particular subset of items for protections like, lasers in the house, dogs, poisonous snakes, whatever you can think of... AND all of it powered by Bing... And while your doing this from a phone or browser your XB1 is actually on (in its low power state) updating your game accordingly... Did a horrible job protecting your house, turn your game on and the game is already showing the ruins... Did an good job at protecting it, and you see dead bodies there (and they don't disappear... Your Internet goes out... That's fine, all of that stuff you just did is stored in the cloud... Internet is back up, and your games adjust accordingly to what has happened (even getting your permission before it just loads it in, because you may be doing something completely different now)...

Or how about Matrix type game or world..,

Your out with your family or friends and you remember your at a boss who is the best martial artist...

And your avatar is in his house or what ever, and you just Bing: learn Kung fu...

While your out, your character is learning Kung fu, you come home and fire up game...and your character knows Kung fu...

What you and I were playing a game where it's drop in and out co-op..,

I'm at work and you have the day off so your playing.., but my character was the last one with the map... Pull out my phone, or iPad and give you're distinct directions on how to get out of a dungeon....

Remember PS-Home??? Worse thing about it??? Always loading, even for the most petty things...

Imagine a world like that done over??? Done right... My character walks through a door and it actually load right into Titanfall right into my matchup... Or I don't want to play Quatum Break any longer, and I say Xbox pause. The game pauses, then I say Xbox go to my pad/house and while Quatum Break is paused a door appears in the world and my Home avatar walks through it and I'm back at my house or environment.., and all my advancements from Quatum break saved accordingly and all...

I'm no game developer... But video games and and high bandwidth Internet are a match made in Heaven... Even for single player games...

Some don't always want a connected world and that's fine...

All the possibilities come from the power of the Web...

The Internet allows for almost unlimited imagination...

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Nick H.

The Internet isn't an "app" it's a service. For some reason the need to refer to things that aren't apps as apps really grates on me...

People complained about DRM, and how it was pure evil.

People laugh and tease how the cloud is a gimmick.

And people cried that their Internet sucks, and that it wouldn't be fair to them.

Well guess what people?

Is this Microsofts fault your ISP sucks?

No, you're right that it isn't Microsoft's fault for people having bad connection speeds. But to look at it from another perspective, isn't Microsoft being a little naive in trying to push a set of services that rely on the Internet when the technology isn't widely available? Ultimately it could end up hurting Microsoft, not the user that went for an offline console instead because the requirements suited him better.

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Showan

XBOX live is going to become a more than than what you see now...

SKYPE, LIVE, XBOX, & too some extent Windows will be start to become a blurr... Sprinkle some Playstation Home (all the stuff that didn't suck about home) for good measure...

The deidicated servers are for more than what people realize... ReSpawn & the Forza team are just little things right now...

But as Bandthwith gets better, things like "Loading" should all but vanish because (no matter the draw distance, or switching between levels, and environments) that data will already be pre-fetched as soon as you venture close to a level change or environment shift.

And if you decide to backtrack, it starts to off load that data back to the cloud/servers.

Or how about a World that never sleep (literally).. You are a Kingpen in a game, and you are at work, you have to pull out your phone or get to a browser and still protect your fort, house, etc... You are given a particular subset of items for protections like, lasers in the house, dogs, poisonous snakes, whatever you can think of... AND all of it powered by Bing... And while your doing this from a phone or browser your XB1 is actually on (in its low power state) updating your game accordingly... Did a horrible job protecting your house, turn your game on and the game is already showing the ruins... Did an good job at protecting it, and you see dead bodies there (and they don't disappear... Your Internet goes out... That's fine, all of that stuff you just did is stored in the cloud... Internet is back up, and your games adjust accordingly to what has happened (even getting your permission before it just loads it in, because you may be doing something completely different now)...

Or how about Matrix type game or world..,

Your out with your family or friends and you remember your at a boss who is the best martial artist...

And your avatar is in his house or what ever, and you just Bing: learn Kung fu...

While your out, your character is learning Kung fu, you come home and fire up game...and your character knows Kung fu...

What you and I were playing a game where it's drop in and out co-op..,

I'm at work and you have the day off so your playing.., but my character was the last one with the map... Pull out my phone, or iPad and give you're distinct directions on how to get out of a dungeon....

Remember PS-Home??? Worse thing about it??? Always loading, even for the most petty things...

Imagine a world like that done over??? Done right... My character walks through a door and it actually load right into Titanfall right into my matchup... Or I don't want to play Quatum Break any longer, and I say Xbox pause. The game pauses, then I say Xbox go to my pad/house and while Quatum Break is paused a door appears in the world and my Home avatar walks through it and I'm back at my house or environment.., and all my advancements from Quatum break saved accordingly and all...

I'm no game developer... But video games and and high bandwidth Internet are a match made in Heaven... Even for single player games...

Some don't always want a connected world and that's fine...

All the possibilities come from the power of the Web...

The Internet allows for almost unlimited imagination...

And what did they monetize??? I didn't see any new weird pricing or anything slipped in during the press conferences so far...

You accuse before they even announce... Why not give benefit of the doubt... You think creating all of this stuff is free...???

Let's face it, other companies had to learn the hard way... That's why they have to charge for certain parts of their online too...

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JonnyLH

The Internet isn't an "app" it's a service. For some reason the need to refer to things that aren't apps as apps really grates on me...

No, you're right that it isn't Microsoft's fault for people having bad connection speeds. But to look at it from another perspective, isn't Microsoft being a little naive in trying to push a set of services that rely on the Internet when the technology isn't widely available? Ultimately it could end up hurting Microsoft, not the user that went for an offline console instead because the requirements suited him better.

English obviously isn't his 1st language, cut the guy some slack.

 

To reply to your comment, a couple of kilobytes at midnight is really something which isn't widely available?

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+trag3dy

English obviously isn't his 1st language, cut the guy some slack.

 

To reply to your comment, a couple of kilobytes at midnight is really something which isn't widely available?

 

A couple of kilobytes at midnight is a pretty rare thing if you don't have internet.

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Nick H.

To reply to your comment, a couple of kilobytes at midnight is really something which isn't widely available?

For me it is available, but I've never been one to complain about the necessity of being online (the latest SimCity is different, because it isn't a crucial necessity, it's just the way EA decided they wanted to do things).

My point is this. The original post says that it isn't Microsoft's fault that they tried to create a console that requires you to be online. I agree, it isn't their fault. But it was their decision, and it is a decision that appears to be turning away many people from the idea of buying an Xbox.

Do I mind about that? Not personally, I had no intention of getting an Xbox. But will Microsoft have an issue with a reduced number of sales? Possibly. If they end up turning around and saying something along the lines of, "where did we go wrong?" the answer for them will not be to blame the ISP's of the world; it will be that they blame themselves for offering something that not everyone could be a part of.

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