Internet is the killer app and it's your ISP who is holding you back

[Showan]

The Internet isn't an "app" it's a service. For some reason the need to refer to things that aren't apps as apps really grates on me...No, you're right that it isn't Microsoft's fault for people having bad connection speeds. But to look at it from another perspective, isn't Microsoft being a little naive in trying to push a set of services that rely on the Internet when the technology isn't widely available? Ultimately it could end up hurting Microsoft, not the user that went for an offline console instead because the requirements suited him better.

You are partially right... People don't like "feeling forced" or "pushed" ... But like I said, if Ms didn't force a broadband connection on us all those years ago, you would probably still see that dial up modem port right next to a broadband port on the back of your respective system... And expect something so yesteryear to be there... And when the OG Xbox came out and people saw this, they cried, screamed and, temper tantrumed all over the floor... But is was for the greater good. Sometimes you have to give the people, what's good for them and not back down from it... I'm happy MS Is stressing internet connection, and those who decide to connect to it, get to enjoy the benefits of it.. Those who are offline and don't want it, should not scream no fair...

And something like this can be a voice... Someone could be a die hard Xbox fan, wants all of this... Realizes their ISP sucks... They paying all this money to them and not getting a good return on investment... Now you start picking up the phone, and asking your respective ISP what the heck are they doing with your money.. The infrastructure has been the same for that past 6-8yrs, your charging top dollar and I only get 1.5 down and .5 up... Demand results or start a revolution...

[trag3dy]

I'm confused how removing the 24 hour check in prevents any of those features you described in online games and what that has to do with DRM or the cloud.

 

In fact what it does is make it so people who don't have reliable 24/7 internet connections can now realisticly say it will be worthwhile for them to invest in getting an xbox one.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

But like I said, if Ms didn't force a broadband connection on us all those years ago...

Huh. As far as I know Microsoft didn't force me to get a broadband connection. I've gone through the ranges of Internet connections, and it was to do with the price that my ISP was offering, it had nothing to do with Microsoft. Anyway, just a minor correction there. ;)

I'm happy MS Is stressing internet connection, and those who decide to connect to it, get to enjoy the benefits of it.. Those who are offline and don't want it, should not scream no fair...

But again, think about it from the other perspective. For the people that are screaming, "no fair!" are Microsoft going to do something to satisfy them? Probably not. But those people will then move to a different console. From a business perspective, Microsoft don't want that to happen.

I'm not criticizing anyone in this situation. I'm just saying that Microsoft may end up looking at their finances and saying, "oops. People actually do vote with their wallet..."

[Dotdot]

Er, I dont see how the internet has f-all to do with MS Xbox one. Its online yes.... but its a game console so it should be offline aswell?

Internet should not be integral to a consoles success. It should merely enhance what is already there.

Shifting blame to ISP`s because they`ve not pushed technology x upon us or viewing them as orwellian overlords because there business models have limitations.....

...is that not what MS have just tried?

So what now we just blame the bigger/other kids?

[Showan]

Huh. As far as I know Microsoft didn't force me to get a broadband connection. I've gone through the ranges of Internet connections, and it was to do with the price that my ISP was offering, it had nothing to do with Microsoft. Anyway, just a minor correction there. ;)But again, think about it from the other perspective. For the people that are screaming, "no fair!" are Microsoft going to do something to satisfy them? Probably not. But those people will then move to a different console. From a business perspective, Microsoft don't want that to happen.I'm not criticizing anyone in this situation. I'm just saying that Microsoft may end up looking at their finances and saying, "oops. People actually do vote with their wallet..."

People have voted with their wallet.., but my views are in general and not pointed to one particular person...

MS showed their device at the reveal, they made it clear as day what is was all about... Always connected...

That moment right there is when you make a choice, this isn't the product I want, so I'm leaving and go with the other brand.

And some did, because the other company had just what they wanted...

[Nick H. Supervisor]

People have voted with their wallet.., but my views are in general and not pointed to one particular person...

MS showed their device at the reveal, they made it clear as day what is was all about... Always connected...

That moment right there is when you make a choice, this isn't the product I want, so I'm leaving and go with the other brand.

And some did, because the other company had just what they wanted...

Ah, fair enough. Just as long as you aren't blaming ISPs for Microsoft's decision. (Y)

[JonnyLH]

A couple of kilobytes at midnight is a pretty rare thing if you don't have internet.

For me it is available, but I've never been one to complain about the necessity of being online (the latest SimCity is different, because it isn't a crucial necessity, it's just the way EA decided they wanted to do things).

My point is this. The original post says that it isn't Microsoft's fault that they tried to create a console that requires you to be online. I agree, it isn't their fault. But it was their decision, and it is a decision that appears to be turning away many people away from the idea of buying an Xbox.

Do I mind about that? Not personally, I had no intention of getting an Xbox. But will Microsoft have an issue with a reduced number of sales? Possibly. If they end up turning around and saying something along the lines of, "where did we go wrong?" the answer for them will not be to blame the ISP's of the world; it will be that they blame themselves for offering something that not everyone could be a part of.

So how can you speak for the people who don't have internet who'd get effected by this? In the UK the Internet is becoming an essential service, every person who has a Xbox will more than likely have a internet connection. I have a couple of good friends who don't have an internet connection due to money and they're not interested in the X1 as of yet due to the fact that they simply don't have enough money to buy one. I feel like people are presuming that a lot of people with consoles don't have an internet connection. The two correlate a lot, the chances are if your an active gamer this day and age, you have an internet connection.

 

The 360 had the requirement that if you wanted XBL you needed a broadband connection, whereas with the X1 you always need to be connected. Although with the X1, a dial-up service would be enough to provide the check-in it needs. Even a tethered phone connection.

 

Obviously there is people who would be effected by this, but at the end of the day, they're edge cases. It was a model to push the X1 forward. 

[trag3dy]

So how can you speak for the people who don't have internet who'd get effected by this? In the UK the Internet is becoming an essential service, every person who has a Xbox will more than likely have a internet connection. I have a couple of good friends who don't have an internet connection due to money and they're not interested in the X1 as of yet due to the fact that they simply don't have enough money to buy one. I feel like people are presuming that a lot of people with consoles don't have an internet connection. The two correlate a lot, the chances are if your an active gamer this day and age, you have an internet connection.

 

The 360 had the requirement that if you wanted XBL you needed a broadband connection, whereas with the X1 you always need to be connected. Although with the X1, a dial-up service would be enough to provide the check-in it needs. Even a tethered phone connection.

 

Obviously there is people who would be effected by this, but at the end of the day, they're edge cases. It was a model to push the X1 forward. 

 

Sure is a good thing all the people in the world live in the Uk then isn't it?

[Nick H. Supervisor]

So how can you speak for the people who don't have internet who'd get effected by this?

I'm not. I'm pointing out how silly it is to blame an ISP for a decision that Microsoft made. I'm not saying that it's a bad decision, and I admire them for "pushing the boundaries" (I really wouldn't call it that, though). I'm just saying that Microsoft made a decision, and ultimately they can blame or celebrate the result on their own, not pass the stick to someone else.

 

Obviously there is people who would be effected by this, but at the end of the day, they're edge cases. It was a model to push the X1 forward.

Again, I'm not arguing with you here. Out of the countries that Microsoft are releasing the Xbox to, a majority of them have decent connections. That said, I know some people around the forums who talk about bitty connections and they are located in the US. And again, I don't care either way about Microsoft's decision to do this. All I was saying was that it has obviously turned some people off, and from a business perspective that isn't all that great. You should try and keep your customers.

[FiB3R]

My internet connection is perfectly fine, better than most in fact, and I still helped fight the good fight.

 

The reason being that, if at any point I found myself without an internet connection (and there have been many examples given of where, when and how this can happen), then my potentially ?1000's of gaming kit would become completely ****ing useless.

 

That is totally unacceptable, even for a day. Even for a god damn hour.

 

People try to pull the bull**** retort of "what if you had no electricity?" As if it's the same thing. Um... No it is not.

 

Electricity is an absolutely fundamental necessity.

 

Total loss of functionality (if you mention watching movies, please hang yourself) due to arbitrary and draconian DRM measures are not, and never will be.

It is the absolute principle of the matter, and you should not be defending it under any circumstances.

[JonnyLH]

Sure is a good thing all the people in the world live in the Uk then isn't it?

So rather than to add to the discussion you post snarky comments which just make you look like an arrogant arse?

 

I live in the UK, so I'm talking about a topic with knowledge gained from personal experience. I can't speak for people in countries I don't have any knowledge of jackass.

[JonnyLH]

I'm not. I'm pointing out how silly it is to blame an ISP for a decision that Microsoft made. I'm not saying that it's a bad decision, and I admire them for "pushing the boundaries" (I really wouldn't call it that, though). I'm just saying that Microsoft made a decision, and ultimately they can blame or celebrate the result on their own, not pass the stick to someone else.

 

Again, I'm not arguing with you here. Out of the countries that Microsoft are releasing the Xbox to, a majority of them have decent connections. That said, I know some people around the forums who talk about bitty connections and they are located in the US. And again, I don't care either way about Microsoft's decision to do this. All I was saying was that it has obviously turned some people off, and from a business perspective that isn't all that great. You should try and keep your customers.

To blame an ISP for any setbacks which the all-online model would of brought to the table is ludicrous as if the service which it relies on isn't ready than the idea shouldn't of been proposed to start off with. So yeah, I agree.

 

The people who this are effected by will have a much louder voice than the people who it hasn't. Are you really going to see articles and comments all over which are similar to "I have Internet so I can play on the X1!"? You're not. When you're reading in places like this, of course there's going to be an outcry of a few who complain about a stable internet connection. Personally, I've only seen a few. Then you've got to think, your not going to hear the people who are really effected by this because they can't voice their opinion on a medium which isn't available to them. 

[trag3dy]

So rather than to add to the discussion you post snarky comments which just make you look like an arrogant arse?

 

I live in the UK, so I'm talking about a topic with knowledge gained from personal experience. I can't speak for people in countries I don't have any knowledge of jackass.

 

There's not much to add. Before the online check in and region locks were removed entire countries were basically out of luck if they wanted an xbox one. Now they at least have the option of importing one if they want it.

 

Besides the fact that none of this has anything to do with the OP. Which is some how implying that isps are limiting what MS was trying to do with their console. Which doesn't make any sense.

[threetonesun]

Let's face it, the Internet has been the killer App for console gaming, ever since the Sega Dreamcast days.

Microsoft has taken that vision and set a bar with Xbox Live.

Broadband Connection only on the OG XBOX was the best thing Microsoft ever did for console gaming.

If they didn't, bother then, we would probably still have a dial up modem on the back of our consoles.

 

The Dreamcast had a broadband adapter.

 

Also, I have a vague recollection of downloading a demo of Doom back in 1994 or so, and Quake came out in 1996 so... I'd argue that MS has been pushing the internet for gaming a lot longer than you give them credit for.

[TheGhostWalker]

And what did they monetize??? I didn't see any new weird pricing or anything slipped in during the press conferences so far...

You accuse before they even announce... Why not give benefit of the doubt... You think creating all of this stuff is free...???

Let's face it, other companies had to learn the hard way... That's why they have to charge for certain parts of their online too...

 

 

People have voted with their wallet.., but my views are in general and not pointed to one particular person...

MS showed their device at the reveal, they made it clear as day what is was all about... Always connected...

That moment right there is when you make a choice, this isn't the product I want, so I'm leaving and go with the other brand.

And some did, because the other company had just what they wanted...

 

I'm not even gonna start on this. 

No offence mate, but don't you think that if you want a really good constructive discussion, that you should look a little bit less biased?

Because right now, you look like a mega-die-hard-xbox fan. And you are trying to tell everyone else that what you think is right and the rest isn't... (in my eyes)

[Showan]

The Dreamcast had a broadband adapter.

 

Also, I have a vague recollection of downloading a demo of Doom back in 1994 or so, and Quake came out in 1996 so... I'd argue that MS has been pushing the internet for gaming a lot longer than you give them credit for.

This referring to consoles and Internet... We already know how of is based...

[Showan]

I'm not even gonna start on this.

No offence mate, but don't you think that if you want a really good constructive discussion, that you should look a little bit less biased?

Because right now, you look like a mega-die-hard-xbox fan. And you are trying to tell everyone else that what you think is right and the rest isn't... (in my eyes)

I'm pointing out the obvious... Microsoft built the XB1 around the Internet... It was made loud and clear at the reveal...

I never said it was right or wrong... But a product is made where Internet is the main draw... Rather a product is good or not, rather a company is too big or too small, when you create a product... It's your baby and you don't want to alter it, because you had a vision in mind...

[trag3dy]

That's interesting. I was under the impression that games were the main draw of a console, not the internet.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

I have a vision of visiting Saturn. That doesn't mean I should start building a spaceship now when other requirements like warp speed don't exist. ;)

That's a bit of a messy analogy, but it's all I've got at the second.

[Showan]

That's interesting. I was under the impression that games were the main draw of a console, not the internet.

So your saying games can't be created where the Internet is the main draw... CoD, Halo, fighting games, sports games... Notice what they circle around now,,, the Internet... It's the main draw... Street Fighter Tournys, CoD Tournys, Halo Tournys... All built around the web.., yes theirs a single player component to these games... But man don't those online features get more and more fleshed out...

Yes a game console is about games... That's a given, that a lot of people don't understand... But the Internet helps break from that same old and more creativity can be sparked... For $60 a game, I want more... If I were still getting what was the Ps1, and N64 days, I wouldn't mind... But $60 a game, and you beat the game in 6hrs... Yes i want more... And the Internet can give it...

[trag3dy]

So your saying games can't be created where the Internet is the main draw... CoD, Halo, fighting games, sports games... Notice what they circle around now,,, the Internet... It's the main draw... Street Fighter Tournys, CoD Tournys, Halo Tournys... All built around the web.., yes theirs a single player component to these games... But man don't those online features get more and more fleshed out...

Yes a game console is about games... That's a given, that a lot of people don't understand... But the Internet helps break from that same old and more creativity can be sparked... For $60 a game, I want more... If I were still getting what was the Ps1, and N64 days, I wouldn't mind... But $60 a game, and you beat the game in 6hrs... Yes i want more... And the Internet can give it...

 

I'm honestly not sure what any of this has to do with your original point is what I'm trying to get at. Removing the online checks or region locking (the drm) won't take away any of that functionality you're talking about and I'm not sure why you think it would.

 

Just to prove that point, most games that MS has showcased so far are cross platform. That alone proves that what you think Microsoft is capable of doing with their console isn't so special.

 

Titanfall (a Microsoft "exclusive") for example, will have a pc version. And on the other side of the fence, Destiny, will also have a pc (rumored), xbox 360/one, ps3, and a ps4 version. Those are both console games that have a lot of co-op multiplayer features built into them.

[Showan]

I'm honestly not sure what any of this has to do with your original point is what I'm trying to get at. Removing the online checks or region locking (the drm) won't take away any of that functionality you're talking about and I'm not sure why you think it would.

That's not what I'm saying at all...

[FiB3R]

That's not what I'm saying at all...

 

So what are you saying?

 

Nobody was moaning about the functionality, only the ridiculous restrictions.

[threetonesun]

This referring to consoles and Internet... We already know how of is based...

 

My point is that gaming jumped to the internet about 14 years before Microsoft even thought of building the first Xbox, let alone the Xbone.

 

If you build a gaming PC anytime in the last 20 years and didn't put a network card in it, people would have thought you were daft. That it's taken consoles so long to catch up is more laughable than innovative.

[trag3dy]

That's not what I'm saying at all...

 

Then I'm sorry to say that you are not making your point very well.