Internet is the killer app and it's your ISP who is holding you back


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Showan

This post was suppose to be about, how a company (no matter if we think if it were right or wrong to do so) who had a vision and based it around always being connected to the web, no matter what... And how people kick and scream not fair because their ISP's lack of infrastructure isn't up to snuff or they just don't have Internet at all is blaming the company for this...

Where they believe the Internet is that killer feature...

And guess what? In parts of the world it is your ISP who is holding you back, from seeing the vision a company is trying to head towards... Rather you like their vision or not.

Nothing more... Nothing less...

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+trag3dy

This post was suppose to be about, how a company (no matter if we think if it were right or wrong to do so) who had a vision and based it around always being connected to the web, no matter what... And how people kick and scream not fair because their ISP's lack of infrastructure isn't up to snuff or they just don't have Internet at all is blaming the company for this...

Where they believe the Internet is that killer feature...

And guess what? In parts of the world it is your ISP who is holding you back, from seeing the vision a company is trying to head towards... Rather you like their vision or not.

Nothing more... Nothing less...

 

And? What we're saying is that nothing MS was trying to do required that constant internet connection. There are so many reasons why requiring an online check in system was bad and not enough good reasons. MS would have been stupid to keep that "feature" when the competition doesn't have anything similar.

 

And you say "no matter if we think it were right or wrong" in one sentence but then in the very next sentence say people were wrong to think the way we did in wanting the online crap removed and that it's some one elses fault.

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Nick H.

And guess what? In parts of the world it is your ISP who is holding you back, from seeing the vision a company is trying to head towards... Rather you like their vision or not.

But we've already covered this above. It's not the ISP's fault for not having the technology in place. It would be Microsoft's fault for assuming that the technology is in place and moving forwards with their idea. Ultimately it would end up hurting them. Not the customers, not the ISP's, but Microsoft.
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JonnyLH

And? What we're saying is that nothing MS was trying to do required that constant internet connection. There are so many reasons why requiring an online check in system was bad and not enough good reasons. MS would have been stupid to keep that "feature" when the competition doesn't have anything similar.

 

And you say "no matter if we think it were right or wrong" in one sentence but then in the very next sentence say people were wrong to think the way we did in wanting the online crap removed and that it's some one elses fault.

Ofcourse there are reasons for the online-check in every 24 hours. Primarily for the family sharing, which by itself outweighs the cons personally.

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FiB3R

You are missing the point of what people were moaning about.

 

It was not the vision of always being connected that was the problem, or even that their internet wasn't good enough to make full use of what was being offered.

 

It was the fact that we were being forced to, for no good reason, and all the problems that it brings, up to and including ###### off and buy a 360 you worthless peasant.

 

Why is it so ######ing hard for people to understand that those features can still be implemented, without such restrictive DRM?

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JonnyLH

You are missing the point of what people were moaning about.

 

It was not the vision of always being connected that was the problem, or even that their internet wasn't good enough to make full use of what was being offered.

 

It was the fact that we were being forced to, for no good reason, and all the problems that it brings, up to and including **** off and buy a 360 you worthless peasant.

 

Why is it so ****ing hard for people to understand that those features can still be implemented, without such restrictive DRM?

They can't without the model being exploited. For a digital game library for work, you need a call home every so often, you just have to.

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Showan

But we've already covered this above. It's not the ISP's fault for not having the technology in place. It would be Microsoft's fault for assuming that the technology is in place and moving forwards with their idea. Ultimately it would end up hurting them. Not the customers, not the ISP's, but Microsoft.

But that's the thing... They knew ISP would be lacking in some demographics... Look where the XB1 was launching first...Most of those areas have some kind of Internet... And MS was basically saying blame your ISP... You knew my product was based around the Internet...and that's what I'm pointing out...

Yes MS left people out in the cold on purpos (even i can see that it was deliberate) and Judging the region, it wa due to lack of good Internet or $$$...

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+trag3dy

Ofcourse there are reasons for the online-check in every 24 hours. Primarily for the family sharing, which by itself outweighs the cons personally.

 

I'm not sure how the presence or lack of an online check would have anything to do with the family sharing, personally.

 

 

 

They can't without the model being exploited. For a digital game library for work, you need a call home every so often, you just have to.

 

Why do you have to? Says who? Microsoft?

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JonnyLH

I'm not sure how the presence or lack of an online check would have anything to do with the family sharing, personally.

Well that just shows how you have no knowledge on the topic we're discussing.

 

Let me give an example. You buy a new game, install it and add it to your game share library. After you do that, you stop playing it and your mate downloads it. Your mate then starts playing the game and unplugs his connection. You then start playing the game. 2 full games, no restriction. 

 

With check-in, easily solved.

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Nick H.

But that's the thing... They knew ISP would be lacking in some demographics... Look where the XB1 was launching first...Most of those areas have some kind of Internet... And MS was basically saying blame your ISP... You knew my product was based around the Internet...and that's what I'm pointing out...

Yes MS left people out in the cold on purpos (even i can see that it was deliberate) and Judging the region, it wa due to lack of good Internet or $$$...

From a business point of view that's ludicrous, telling potential customers to bugger off. That's all I'm saying. I can't defend their decision, and it surprises me that anyone can.
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+trag3dy

But that's the thing... They knew ISP would be lacking in some demographics... Look where the XB1 was launching first...Most of those areas have some kind of Internet... And MS was basically saying blame your ISP... You knew my product was based around the Internet...and that's what I'm pointing out...

Yes MS left people out in the cold on purpos (even i can see that it was deliberate) and Judging the region, it wa due to lack of good Internet or $$$...

 

And you see that as something that deserves defending?

 

 

Well that just shows how you have no knowledge on the topic we're discussing.

 

Let me give an example. You buy a new game, install it and add it to your game share library. After you do that, you stop playing it and your mate downloads it. Your mate then starts playing the game and unplugs his connection. You then start playing the game. 2 full games, no restriction. 

 

With check-in, easily solved.

 

So? Apparently you could still do the same thing with the online check, just for 24 hours. And you're kidding yourself if you think MS was ever going to give people full unrestricted access to games they didn't pay for to begin with. And for 10 entire games?

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JonnyLH

From a business point of view that's ludicrous, telling potential customers to bugger off. That's all I'm saying. I can't defend their decision, and it surprises me that anyone can.

Its not a business decision for the short-term, they know that, people know that. It was a decision which allowed to create a different ecosystem on the console which would be better for all, the provider, customer and developer.

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+trag3dy

Opps. Wrong button. :rofl:

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jasondefaoite

Ability to share any game you own with 10 friends? Never needing a disc again? Downloading your whole game library on whoevers Xbox? I'm jumping to conclusions here but from the sound of that, it feels like you didn't know a lot of those reasons.

 

I disagree with the statement regarding ISP's, in the UK its more so down to the government and the relationship with BT. ISP's actually work on very very small margins. 

 

Ya, some jumping there. Honestly, I don't believe Microsoft were going to allow you to share your library to 10 people without restrictions. They were already trying to lock down the 2nd hand sales to block it or gain money from it. You believe they would allow 10 other people to play and fully complete single player games from your library without buying them? Just can't see it.

 

If you recall the Zune wifi sharing, this was going to be great. Can squirt a song from one Zune to another. This was the announcement. Only later was it fully clarified out it would work. The person receiving the file could listen 3 times in total, and only within 48 hrs (after which time they lose the song). This family plan had squirt written all over it to me.

 

Not having to switch disks is definitely a plus, but not at the extent of losing the ability to resell the game (publishers "restrictions" or not).

 

Having to download the game at a friends place? Just bring over the disk.

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JonnyLH

Ya, some jumping there. Honestly, I don't believe Microsoft were going to allow you to share your library to 10 people without restrictions. They were already trying to lock down the 2nd hand sales to block it or gain money from it. You believe they would allow 10 other people to play and fully complete single player games from your library? Just can't see it.

 

Not having to switch disks is definitely a plus, but not at the extent of losing the ability to resell the game (publishers "restrictions" or not).

 

Having to download the game at a friends place? Just bring over the disk.

It was announced and shown. What is there to doubt?

 

In regards to disk, your telling me that bringing a disc which is susceptible to scratching and damage is more convenient compared to downloading a game I can play while it is downloading?

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Showan

You are missing the point of what people were moaning about.

 

It was not the vision of always being connected that was the problem, or even that their internet wasn't good enough to make full use of what was being offered.

 

It was the fact that we were being forced to, for no good reason, and all the problems that it brings, up to and including **** off and buy a 360 you worthless peasant.

 

Why is it so ****ing hard for people to understand that those features can still be implemented, without such restrictive DRM?

It's their investment and our dollar... Each has to protect their own... And do what's in each others best interest.

No matter how you complain about their rules they have to protect their IP...

And no matter how much they try to force something, it's your hard earned $$$

People need to accept this is a 2way street and not a 1 way deal...

Don't like the rules in place, understandable... It is your money

But don't kick and scream that they putting them in place...

Brush it off and go where the rules are to your liking

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+trag3dy

It's their investment and our dollar... Each has to protect their own... And do what's in each others best interest.

No matter how you complain about their rules they have to protect their IP...

And no matter how much they try to force something, it's your hard earned $$$

People need to accept this is a 2way street and not a 1 way deal...

Don't like the rules in place, understandable... It is your money

But don't kick and scream that they putting them in place...

Brush it off and go where the rules are to your liking

 

People did. Which is why the online check in was removed.

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Nick H.

Its not a business decision for the short-term, they know that, people know that. It was a decision which allowed to create a different ecosystem on the console which would be better for all, the provider, customer and developer.

Sure, I can agree with that, and I wish them the best. But if it doesn't work, should people blame the ISPs for Microsoft's gamble? Nope. (But you and I are already in agreement about this bit (Y) ). That was the purpose of this thread, and it doesn't work.
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Showan

And you see that as something that deserves defending?

So? Apparently you could still do the same thing with the online check, just for 24 hours. And you're kidding yourself if you think MS was ever going to give people full unrestricted access to games they didn't pay for to begin with. And for 10 entire games?

I'm not defending... But a company has a right to make a product center it around something and make it their vision... But because their vision need always online (sure they are saying those lacking Internet don't even bother) . U want to burn the company to the ground cause your ISP isn't up to snuff or u just don't have Internet to participate in that vision... Their are a lot of things out their, that don't cater to me because of my size (6'5" 260lbs)... But who am I to be mad at their vision and their strategy because I can't be a part of it... I just have to go where my needs/wants are met...
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+trag3dy

I'm not defending... But a company has a right to make a product center it around something and make it their vision... But because their vision need always online (sure they are saying those lacking Internet don't even bother) . U want to burn the company to the ground cause your ISP isn't up to snuff or u just don't have Internet...

 

You are defending it. Listen, they can and do have the right to make their product do anything they want it to, yes. But, we as a consumer, have the right to say Microsoft, we're not putting up with your shenanigans, change it or we won't buy it.

 

At the end of the day they need our money to survive as a business. I do not need an xbox one to survive. People saw something that had some pretty major flaws attached to it and told Microsoft they aren't having none of that. And you're trying to some how say this is the fault of isps because they only offer sub par internet? The thought process doesn't even begin to make sense.

 

 

Their are a lot of things out their, that don't cater to me because of my size (6'5" 260lbs)... But who am I to be mad at their vision and their strategy because I can't be a part of it... I just have to go where my needs/wants are met...

 

That's exactly what happened.

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jasondefaoite

It was announced and shown. What is there to doubt?

 

In regards to disk, your telling me that bringing a disc which is susceptible to scratching and damage is more convenient compared to downloading a game I can play while it is downloading?

 

Squirt was also announced, but how did that work out?

 

MS were very selective on the details of the family sharing they announced. No way was it full disclosure. They refused to answer some questions on it, like if 1 person is playing a game from the library, could one of the other 9 on the list play a different game at the same time? Refused to answer.

 

You just have to ask yourself honestly, do you believe they would allow 10 people to play and complete a single player game from your library? 1 sale. 11 people having played it. Really?

 

Yup, bringing the disk would be more convenient for me. Nice to have the option.

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JonnyLH

Squirt was also announced, but how did that work out?

 

MS were very selective on the details of the family sharing they announced. No way was it full disclosure. They refused to answer some questions on it, like if 1 person is playing a game from the library, could one of the other 9 on the list play a different game at the same time? Refused to answer.

 

You just have to ask yourself honestly, do you believe they would allow 10 people to play and complete a single player game from your library? 1 sale. 11 people having played it. Really?

 

Yup, bringing the disk would be more convenient for me. Nice to have the option.

What? Did you even read the documentation around family sharing? The information was released on Xbox Wire, Majornelson etc.

 

When 1 person was playing that game, no-one else could play it. The original owner of the game could always start playing their game. Simple rules which make the platform highly beneficial.

 

You're talking like they removed that option, when they didn't? I'm simply saying online is more convenient, since I've had many games broken in the past.

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FiB3R

It's their investment and our dollar... Each has to protect their own... And do what's in each others best interest.

No matter how you complain about their rules they have to protect their IP...

And no matter how much they try to force something, it's your hard earned $$$

People need to accept this is a 2way street and not a 1 way deal...

Don't like the rules in place, understandable... It is your money

But don't kick and scream that they putting them in place...

Brush it off and go where the rules are to your liking

 

Take it like a little bitch, you mean? No thanks, that's not how I roll. I will "kick and scream" all ######ing day long if that's what it takes to invoke change.

 

People are currently busy overthrowing their governments, and you don't even have the strength of character to stand up and be counted over something like this!?

 

I will not brush it off and go elsewhere, I will make clear what I want for my hard earned money.

 

You think Microsoft whats me to go else where? They have made it quite apparent that they do not.

 

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jasondefaoite

When 1 person was playing that game, no-one else could play it. The original owner of the game could always start playing their game. Simple rules which make the platform highly beneficial.

 

You're talking like they removed that option, when they didn't? I'm simply saying online is more convenient, since I've had many games broken in the past.

 

Family sharing: That wasn't the question I asked, but I'm not surprised you skipped over the details. So did Microsoft :) And if you believe that was the only restriction ... well we'll have to agree to disagree there.

 

Disk to a friends place: You added this in by saying I must have missed something in terms of what I was supposedly gaining from the additional limitations put on the system. I didn't miss it. I'm simply saying it is more convenient for me to bring a disk.

 

Let me state this again, I'm delighted MS reversed course on this DRM ######.

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JonnyLH

Family sharing: That wasn't the question I asked, but I'm not surprised you skipped over the details. So did Microsoft :) And if you believe that was the only restriction ... well we'll have to agree to disagree there.

 

Disk to a friends place: You added this in by saying I must have missed something in terms of what I was supposedly gaining from the additional limitations put on the system. I didn't miss it. I'm simply saying it is more convenient for me to bring a disk.

That was the only restriction, I don't see what point your trying to make?

 

Well then why are you complaining when you still can do the thing you've always done?

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