Windows 8.1 Did Microsoft miss their last chance?

By neo1911
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Grand Master

neo1911

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Few days ago, I installed Windows 8.1 RTM like a starved tech child. I also managed to activate it with my previous upgrade key. All fine and dandy. 

 

All I see is a fake Start button, few customizations of themes and some better reorganization of newer control panel.

 

But 90% desktop users request goes ignored. That is Modern apps on Desktop Taskbar. Ability to freely resize them to my liking. Have a better multi tasking that has been familiar to me since time immemorial.

 

As a result I have still not been able to adapt to modern apps. I don't use them as desktop based apps are so much superior with better multi tasking.

 

Windows Image based system recovery has been removed from GUI. Now I have to pass some obscure DOS based commands. To me Microsoft is fixing what ain't broken. 

 

I also did not like the blatantly desperate attempt to display "you can download apps from our app store" in biggest font possible at post install. 

 

All this makes me feel that Microsoft is getting more and more arrogant and then they backtrack due to public backlash. 

 

Fun fact: Windows Blue RTM has yellow as default wallpaper.

 

Feel free to chip in your thoughts about Windows 8.1

Is Microsoft loosing it?

Grand Master

Max Norris

Posted
Posted

Is Microsoft loosing it?

Nah. This is just my opinion mind you, and note that I'm not bothering with 8.1 until it's officially released and the dust has settled a bit. That said, I'm not a fan of trying to shoehorn the modern apps into a desktop workflow, that goes counter to what they were designed for to begin with, namely a consistent setup between desktops and tablets, that was the whole point. If you think traditional forms based applications are superior (and I'm among that group) then why would you even worry about it if you're not going to use it anyway? It's just another layer on the desktop, one that's completely optional. Stay with regular form based software, optionally throw on a start menu replacement if you want, go about your business as before. Takes all of 10 seconds to do and you'll have a desktop that's more to your liking. It's just an out-of-the-box setup that's easily changed, the OS is still flexible to where you can get it how you want it.

Microsoft losing it would be completely removing compatibility with almost 20 years of software and making it essentially Windows RT on the desktop. Then I'll be on the "f'k Microsoft" bandwagon, but until then, meh. I get what they're doing but it's not for me, click click done, back to my classic setup.

Ever since, well, forever, there's always been stuff on every desktop ever made that people don't like and gets replaced/changed by something else. This isn't specific to Windows either, I can name things I've added/changed/removed on pretty much any desktop OS out there. I've yet to find that "perfect" desktop that didn't need a bit of tweaking or help.

 

Fun fact: Windows Blue RTM has yellow as default wallpaper.

I don't get that yellow wallpaper.. the defaults are usually fairly calm, but that one for some reason feels like "angry wallpaper". I dunno, but /shrug fun fact, click click gone.
Grand Master

Raa

Posted
Posted

i guess you didnt get the memo that rtm is not the finished version of 8.1

Really? No I didn't get that memo either. Strange, since RTM usually means a program has been finalised and Released To Manufacturers...

 

 

As for Microsoft losing it? Not sure... but their recent track record isn't great.

Grand Master

+Frank B. Subscriber²

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i guess you didnt get the memo that rtm is not the finished version of 8.1

I guess you didn't get the memo that any changes between RTM and General Availability will be mere bug fixes. RTM is feature-complete.

 

Going by the 8.1 preview and all of the information I've seen about RTM Windows 8.1 is only a minor improvement over the half-assed product Windows 8 was. Shoehorning two entirely different UX paradigms into one product. I could use it, I just prefer not to.

 

Let's see what Windows 8.2 or 9 will bring to the table.

Grand Master

vcfan

Posted
Posted

Really? No I didn't get that memo either. Strange, since RTM usually means a program has been finalised and Released To Manufacturers...

 

In the past, the release to manufacturing (RTM) milestone traditionally meant that the software was ready for broader customer use. However, it?s clear that times have changed

 

While our partners are preparing these exciting new devices we will continue to work closely with them as we put the finishing touches on Windows 8.1 to ensure a quality experience at general availability on October 18th

 

 

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/08/27/readying-windows-8-1-for-release.aspx

 

 

I guess you didn't get the memo that any changes between RTM and General Availability will be mere bug fixes. RTM is feature-complete.

 

all we know is that RTM is not final,see above. anything else is speculation. this is different to how things were done in the past,so saying RTM is feature complete is just a guess on your part.

Grand Master

Knife Party

Posted
Posted

I guess you didn't get the memo that any changes between RTM and General Availability will be mere bug fixes. RTM is feature-complete.

 

Going by the 8.1 preview and all of the information I've seen about RTM Windows 8.1 is only a minor improvement over the half-assed product Windows 8 was. Shoehorning two entirely different UX paradigms into one product. I could use it, I just prefer not to.

 

Let's see what Windows 8.2 or 9 will bring to the table.

honestly don't even try to apply logic, some posters here are immune to that sort of thing

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Grand Master

+Frank B. Subscriber²

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http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/08/27/readying-windows-8-1-for-release.aspx

 

 

 

all we know is that RTM is not final,see above. anything else is speculation. this is different to how things were done in the past,so saying RTM is feature complete is just a guess on your part.

 

Any fixes between RTM and GA will be updates to modern UI apps. The desktop experience will remain as it is - half-assed on non-touch devices.

Mentor

Riggers

Posted
Posted

I said it when 8 was released and i`ll say it again, the main reason (imo) that Microsoft has taken this approach with their new operating system is to get some exposure/income from the pay for app market. They have seen how much Apple and Google are making from their relevant stores and wanted to get in on the action.

 

The`re not losing it per se, but they could probably have done the transition better...

 

8.1 seems like it`s pretty much 8 with some extra customization tools available and refined a bit more!

 

Get ready for plenty of  :argue:

 

 

Grand Master

xendrome

Posted
Posted

I said it when 8 was released and i`ll say it again, the main reason (imo) that Microsoft has taken this approach with their new operating system is to get some exposure/income from the pay for app market. They have seen how much Apple and Google are making from their relevant stores and wanted to get in on the action.

 

The`re not losing it per se, but they could probably have done the transition better...

 

8.1 seems like it`s pretty much 8 with some extra customization tools available and refined a bit more!

 

Get ready for plenty of  :argue:

 

I don't think specifically they want income from the app market at this point. They don't want to lose a stake in the tablet/mobile market to Apple and Google. So they have to conform and produce something that will compete. The revenue will come down the road.

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Studio384

Posted
Posted

They didn't, I mean, take a look at the stats, in August, Windows 8 growth with 2% (exclusive the 0.24% of Windows 8.1, they are counted sepparate), so the market believes in it. Anyway, Windows 8.1 is fine as it is. I like it realy much, both desktop as tablet. If you don't want to use metro apps on your desktop, just don't use them... Install Windows Mail or whatever mailclient you use and move on. :)

Grand Master

Raa

Posted
Posted

 

all we know is that RTM is not final,see above. anything else is speculation. this is different to how things were done in the past,so saying RTM is feature complete is just a guess on your part.

Okay, i'll play along for now. But when it actually does get released as GA and nothing's changed, i'll be back to remind you of it.

But we digress.

Veteran

Studio384

Posted
Posted

@Raa - It's just a guess from him, we do know Windows 8.1 has been RTM'ed, but we don't know if it is feature-ready, it could be yes like you said, or no like he said. If Windows 8.1 will hit GA without new features compared to RTM, we actualy still don't know if it is feature ready unless Microsoft makes that statement. It can happen that they take an update cycle as used for Xbox and Windows Phone, that we will see small improvements now and then with just a buildnumber change.

Grand Master

+Anarkii Subscriber²

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Im hoping Windows 9 brings to the table two distinct and separate operating systems. 
One for tablets with Metro and a upgraded desktop version. 

Grand Master

MikeChipshop Member

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8.1 is just a polish of 8. If you really chose to hate 8, then 8.1 isn't going to magically change your mind unless you really, really wanted a start button sprite in the bottom left of your screen.

 

Has MS lost it? I don't think so. Will people continue to moan? Undoubtedly.

Grand Master

Max Norris

Posted
Posted

Im hoping Windows 9 brings to the table two distinct and separate operating systems. 

One for tablets with Metro and a upgraded desktop version.

Personally I'd rather see it as an optional in the "programs and features" area of the control panel. Separate SKU's just muddle things up, make it an option so if you want it it's there, if not you get the old desktop with no extras on top of it. On my x86 based tablet I would definitely want it, on my development desktop I'd want it, on my daughter's desktop I'd use it since it's dead easy for her, on my regular desktop not so much. I'm totally ok with doing it myself with whatever third party replacement but an option would be nice. Would cut down on a lot of forum drama too, although they'd probably be called desperate for doing that too.
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xWhiplash

Posted
Posted

You guys can't be serious.  If 8.1 is NOT feature ready by now, it will just be a severely rushed release.  You do not add new features to something you will be releasing in a couple of months.  

 

All that will happen between now and October will be just patches and small fixes.  Not major features.

Grand Master

Anibal P

Posted
Posted

Having used both 8 and 8.1 are great, just because some so called nerds can't handle some change doesn't change that, Metro apps are fairly useful and practical also, again people are hating change for the sake of hating on it, NO ONE has brought up a legitimate issue with the changes, they are all personal gripes because again so called nerds are scared of change 

Grand Master

George P Global Moderator

Posted
  • Global Moderator
Posted

RTM is done,  we'll see patches/updates to apps and whatever the OEMs find that needs fixing but that's it.  Features are done, and honestly from having used it on a tablet is a great update there, once the updated core apps come out it makes it very good for those devices.  On the desktop, I don't mind the start screen, it's there to start apps, I'm in the desktop running desktop apps 98% of the time though I have some handy metro apps open as well, like Watchlist so I can keep track of the shows I watch, better than doing some sort of manual text file or w/e.  

 

Have they lost it, no, the market is speaking but some people don't want to listen or admit it.  Computing is going mobile, more and more, metro is here to stay, the UI is here to stay though they'll keep updating it and making it better.  As for the Desktop?  It's at it's end, there's few things one can do to it in any major way to make traditionalists happy.  8.0 brought good native multimonitor updates to the OS that people wanted,  8.1 advanced that with automatic scaling of the UI for different screens.  It honestly seems to me now that what the "desktop" users want is to see metro apps on the desktop in windows and on the taskbar.  Will MS do that in 8.2 or 9?  Who knows?  One thing I can bet for sure is that the two UIs will merge more, so in that sense windowed metro apps could happen.  Are they going to split it off though or let you turn it off, no, they're not.    I'd like to see them offer to manage desktop apps as well, not just list them, though the listing for desktop apps is free.   Charge a tiny fee and let people update/upgrade their desktop apps like they update metro apps and that'd be something new.

Collaborator

Seketh

Posted
Posted
sanke1, on 01 Sept 2013 - 12:49, said:sanke1, on 01 Sept 2013 - 12:49, said:

 

 

All I see is a fake Start button, few customizations of themes and some better reorganization of newer control panel.

 

 

If that's all you really see, and are indeed completely oblivious to all the other significant changes that are also present in the 8.1. Preview, here's some advice:

 

Learn to use the "Modern UI".

Grand Master

vcfan

Posted
Posted

You guys can't be serious.  If 8.1 is NOT feature ready by now, it will just be a severely rushed release.  You do not add new features to something you will be releasing in a couple of months.  

 

All that will happen between now and October will be just patches and small fixes.  Not major features.

 

who says the features are not ready? they just could be not included in the builds released to partners. it makes a whole lot of sense since they are not even releasing the rtm to msdn/technet users.

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