TAZMINATOR Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Two people have died a horrible death and you two are getting all moralistic and pedantic about it. Good gosh almighty get over yourselves, you're both just arguing for the sake of arguing. The investigation will hopefully determine the cause of the accident and fault, until then any remarks about the speed and/or recklessness, if any, is pure speculation. :( Right.. hopefully, there were witnesses out there to see the wreck and plan to tell cops on how that happened.. since there was a charity event going on during that time, nearby. Maybe the companies around that road, where the wreck was located, might have the security cameras installed ... facing that road... Very very sad day for the families and friends ... he will be missed.. To the others who discussed about the car damages at either slow or fast speed... You can NOT even tell how that happen.. you must wait until the investigation is cleared and released so we will find out what caused it.. The slow speed can cause bad damages like this... similar to Lamborghini and other sport cars... depending on how they are made... such as thick or thin frame, metal, plastic, fiberglass, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsupersonic Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I actually have a point to make. When you drive "Fast and Furious", you'll probably not only die, but kill other innocent people as well. It's as dangerous, irresponsible, and stupid as driving drunk. I hope this is a lesson to others, but I think most people will just chalk it up to a horrible accident instead of someone playing with fire and getting burned. /sigh. Paul wasn't driving. This could've happened at slower speeds and still end up in the same situation. If you want to have fun, drive responsibly and take it to a track. Rather than speculate, lets see what the investigation comes to. psmoked 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoko Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 The investigation will hopefully determine the cause of the accident and fault, until then any remarks about the speed and/or recklessness, if any, is pure speculation. :( They lost control on a wide, straight street on a nice sunny day and the car was obliterated and literally sliced in two by a utility pole and a small tree. The laws of physics make it pretty much impossible that they weren't speeding and that in itself is reckless. This amount of damage could not have happened if they were driving safely and within the speed limit for that street. Memphis and thomastmc 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmc Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 /sigh. Paul wasn't driving. This could've happened at slower speeds and still end up in the same situation. If you want to have fun, drive responsibly and take it to a track. No, this couldn't have happened if they were driving around the speed limit. That's why the police investigation is focusing on the speed of the car as the cause of the accident, because they were obviously going much too fast for the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted December 1, 2013 Subscriber² Share Posted December 1, 2013 I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I actually have a point to make. When you drive "Fast and Furious", you'll probably not only die, but kill other innocent people as well. It's as dangerous, irresponsible, and stupid as driving drunk. I hope this is a lesson to others, but I think most people will just chalk it up to a horrible accident instead of someone playing with fire and getting burned. Edit: --> That speed is what caused the accident and deaths, and recklessness, is not speculation. It's what all of the facts of the accident indicate, and there is nothing to indicate otherwise. They lost control on a wide, straight street on a nice sunny day and the car was obliterated and literally sliced in two by a utility pole and a small tree. The laws of physics make it pretty much impossible that they weren't speeding and that in itself is reckless. This amount of damage could not have happened if they were driving safely and within the speed limit for that street. I didn't say the driver wasn't speeding or driving recklessly, but only a proper investigation will determine the facts, not speculation by anyone looking at a monitor sitting in their room. I'll take the word of investigators over any wannabe forum expert any day. And for the thick headed, it does appear by the accident scene pictures posted that carelessness and speeding were factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappy Veteran Posted December 1, 2013 Veteran Share Posted December 1, 2013 Paul Walker's body was burned so badly the coroner needs his dental records to identify the body ... TMZ has learned. A rep for the L.A. County Coroner tells us ... the bodies of Paul and his friend/business partner Roger Rodas are currently unidentifiable and their autopsies will be delayed until later this week. We're told the coroner is waiting on both sets of dental records before proceeding. Rodas -- who was driving the Porsche yesterday -- was friends with Walker for nearly a decade ... and Roger has been credited with helping Paul start his race shop. The two also joined forces to create the "Reach Out World Wide" Foundation to help disaster relief in other countries -- and as we first reported ... the group was behind yesterday's fundraiser for typhoon relief in Santa Clarita. Paul's rep says Roger and Paul were leaving the event when they wrecked. http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/01/paul-walker-body-unidentifiable-autopsy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsupersonic Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 No, this couldn't have happened if they were driving around the speed limit. That's why the police investigation is focusing on the speed of the car as the cause of the accident, because they were obviously going much too fast for the road. You have clearly never driven a high performance vehicle have you? You can lose control going the speed limit (or less) and end in tragedy. That or you must be the world's best driver :rolleyes: It is obvious police would go to speed as the "cause" of the accident. I am interested in seeing what eye witnesses have to say. I am not saying speed wasn't/isn't the cause of this particular accident - just saying you can still drive slower than the speed limit and end in tragedy. psmoked 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmc Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I didn't say the driver wasn't speeding or driving recklessly, but only a proper investigation will determine the facts, not speculation by anyone looking at a monitor sitting in their room. I'll take the word of investigators over any wannabe forum expert any day. And for the thick headed, it does appear by the accident scene pictures posted that carelessness and speeding were factors. You have clearly never driven a high performance vehicle have you? You can lose control going the speed limit (or less) and end in tragedy. That or you must be the world's best driver :rolleyes: It is obvious police would go to speed as the "cause" of the accident. I am interested in seeing what eye witnesses have to say It is not speculation, it's what all of the facts indicate. No, the closest I've come is a '93 Camaro I owned when I was 20. Actor Paul Walker, the star of the "Fast & Furious" movie franchise, was killed in a fiery high-speed crash after leaving a charity event on Saturday. He was 40. The Los Angeles Sheriff's Department said early Sunday that "speed was a factor" in the single-vehicle collision. http://www.today.com/entertainment/fast-furious-actor-paul-walker-dies-car-crash-2D11674408 I didn't realize that stating the obvious made one a "wannabe forum expert" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoko Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 You have clearly never driven a high performance vehicle have you? You can lose control going the speed limit (or less) and end in tragedy. That or you must be the world's best driver :rolleyes: I didn't say you can't lose control doing the speed limit. I said that amount of damage could not have occurred had they been going 45 mph. thomastmc and Memphis 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted December 1, 2013 Subscriber² Share Posted December 1, 2013 It is not speculation, it's what all of the facts indicate. No, the closest I've come is a '93 Camaro I owned when I was 20. Did you even bother to read and understand my response? I acknowledged that speed and carelessness were factors. You are now being very pedantic and argumentative. Anyway, RIP to both Paul Walker and Roger Rodas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmc Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Did you even bother to read and understand my response? I acknowledged that speed and carelessness were factors. You are now being very pedantic and argumentative. Anyway, RIP to both Paul Walker and Roger Rodas. So you believe that speed and carelessness were factors, but you chose to contradict my assertion of the same and make a slight insult, and call it nothing more than speculation? That's argumentative and pedantic :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 It seems some are speculating on his speed... And, the police investigation is focusing on the speed of the car as the cause of the accident. A Carrera GT loses control and slams into a light pole and a tree on a fine road with a speed limit of 45 mph and light traffic in the middle of the afternoon on a perfectly beautiful day and get's smashed to hell, and you don't assume it was probably reckless driving? Thanks Sherlock, but it was reckless driving, and they were probably doing at least 70 mph. It's a Porsche, they're naturally attracted to poles and trees in curves and corners. doesn't need to drive fast to wrap a porsche around a tree or pole. thomastmc 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsupersonic Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I didn't say you can't lose control doing the speed limit. I said that amount of damage could not have occurred had they been going 45 mph. I wasn't even replying to you. It really depends - if the car is structurally not safe in a crash (poor design), then yes, this can happen at speed limit. The safety crash ratings for that car are not easily available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser.d Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 No, this couldn't have happened if they were driving around the speed limit. That's why the police investigation is focusing on the speed of the car as the cause of the accident, because they were obviously going much too fast for the road. Yes it could have, and that's the point we're trying to make. It doesn't take high speeds to cause a wreck like this. It can happen at 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted December 1, 2013 Subscriber² Share Posted December 1, 2013 It seems some are speculating on his speed... And, the police investigation is focusing on the speed of the car as the cause of the accident. A Carrera GT loses control and slams into a light pole and a tree on a fine road with a speed limit of 45 mph and light traffic in the middle of the afternoon on a perfectly beautiful day and get's smashed to hell, and you don't assume it was probably reckless driving? Thanks Sherlock, but it was reckless driving, and they were probably doing at least 70 mph. So you believe that speed and carelessness were factors, but you chose to contradict my assertion of the same and make a slight insult, and call it nothing more than speculation? That's argumentative and pedantic :) I was referring to your claim of 70 mph of which there is no proof of that, yet. And I made no insult to you, but if you feel the shoe fits, suit yourself. Ok, you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoko Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Yes it could have, and that's the point we're trying to make. It doesn't take high speeds to cause a wreck like this. It can happen at 45. Sorry I must be tired, lol. I could have sworn you were replying to me. Still, no. The car wouldn't have that kind of damage if they were going the speed limit. The driver lost control on a straight city street and spun out, taking out a metal utility pole with such force that the car disintegrated then continued on with enough force to become impaled on a tree. That's not going to happen at 45 mph. It is very obvious that they were travelling at a very high rate of speed. thomastmc and Memphis 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I wasn't even replying to you. It really depends - if the car is structurally not safe in a crash (poor design), then yes, this can happen at speed limit. The safety crash ratings for that car are not easily available. it appears the car hit at the worst possible position. Imagine a ton of car(I believe the Carrera GT is 1.3) hitting a narrow pole or tree, going sideways or semi sideways on the middle of the long side, the weakest point of the car, with half the car weight pulling in the car on each side of the tree. 35-45 is more than enough to rip any car in two. there's no structure in the world that's not going to rip apart on the far side and not bend inwards on the near side of the crash. psmoked 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrush Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 that ****es me right off "lets stand here and film a car on fire rather than trying to help the people that are inside it" RIP Paul You're clearly someone who gets ###### off easily and fails to assess the situation as a result. Good luck diving into those flames and pulling out what's left of the occupants. thomastmc and astropheed 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmc Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Yes it could have, and that's the point we're trying to make. It doesn't take high speeds to cause a wreck like this. It can happen at 45. Maybe if the Moon and the Sun and the stars are all aligned perfectly :) I wish you were my dad. I could've gotten away with anything :) I was referring to your claim of 70 mph of which there is no proof of that, yet. And I made no insult to you, but if you feel the shoe fits, suit yourself. Ok, you win. any remarks about the speed and/or recklessness, if any, is pure speculation. :( You did make a slight insult. Calling someone a "wannabe forum expert" for stating the obvious is not polite. It makes sense though, as you see this as a competition, win or lose. It's not, it's just a discussion. Tomoko 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I did an image search for low speed side impacts. This was 18 mph. now double that and you have nearly 35. and if you know anything about car crash physics, you know that doubling the speed pretty much quadruples the damage. and side impacts are even worse since this is the weakest possible place to hit a car with such a small impact area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Volvo S60 into a barrier at 40 mph Add fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastmc Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I did an image search for low speed side impacts. This was 18 mph. now double that and you have nearly 35. and if you know anything about car crash physics, you know that doubling the speed pretty much quadruples the damage. and side impacts are even worse since this is the weakest possible place to hit a car with such a small impact area. The direct impact may possibly have been at 45 mph, point taken. He hit a pole before splitting the car on the tree, which absorbed at least some of the momentum. You'd also have to assume that he applied the brakes before impact as well, or that he left the road at an extremely sharp angle. Then there's the matter of how does one lose control of a car that handles like a Porsche at 45 mph on a straight paved road in excellent conditions and still have the momentum and force to split it in two on the second impact. Acknowledging every known piece of information about this accident, do you think that they were travelling at around the speed limit of 45 mph before control was lost? If so, what probably caused this accident to occur under the circumstances and in the way that it did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 How to lose control at low speed in a performance car? Because most high performances cars are set up with a degree of over-steer, meaning the tail tends to drift in turns. This is fine on a track where you expect it and there are safety barriers, but on the street where the roads aren't perfect (even a ripple counts) even a good driver can lose it. Why over-steer? A weight distribution tjat pits modt of the vehicles mass on the rear wheels. The Catrera GT's is 42% front/58% rear. Back around 1970 there was a car called the De Tomaso Mongusta that had such bad over-steer it was almost undriveable. I raced in my youth, but 5 min with a Mongusta on a skid pad was enough. Mongusta W/D: 68/32 psmoked 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryspy Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 "The Fast and the Flammable"...... Too soon !!! Drive like an idiot........stuff happens..... Condolences to his 15 year old daughter he left selfishly behind when he decided to get in the car with an idiot who decided to drive recklessly. <--- I stand corrected. thomastmc and Memphis 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAZMINATOR Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 "The Fast and the Flammable"...... Too soon !!! Drive like an idiot........stuff happens..... Condolences to his 15 year old daughter he left selfishly behind when he decided to drive recklessly. He wasn't driving... He rode with his friend who was driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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