Epic battle royale going on now!

By TMYW
in Science News & Discussion

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HellboundIRL

Posted
Posted

And many atheists do the same thing.  As long as you are a good person and dont try to  shove whatever you believe down my throat, I will not treat you differently because of your beliefs.

 

Atheists are just as bad, if not worse, that people who are religious.

 

The difference between the two when it comes to this debate is that atheists are trying to push something through that has evidence to support it versus the religious side which claims something that was written in a book thousands of years ago is true simply because it was in that book which apparently is the word of God.

 

Claiming the earth is less than 5000 years old is as bad as someone claiming the earth is flat, we know that it's not so it's really not up for debate, it's just stupid.

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

So you say. I say there's crazies at the extremes of both belief and disbelief and they deserve being ignored. Especially as regards demeaning and threatening statements.

The 5,000+ year timeframe is Young Earth Creationism. This is only doctrinal to the Evangelical Reformed Presbyterians, Missouri Synod Lutherans, Seventh-Day Adventists and a few splinter, but loud, televangelist and splinter types. It is not a mainstream doctrine.

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

A view about personal beliefs becomes "extreme" when someone aggressively asserts "I'm right and anyone who disagrees is wrong."

Extra points when the assertion indicates a desire that those targeted should die or be killed, as happened in this threads first couple of pages. I won't name names as that may violate the TOS, but it was bad enough that by the time I reported it someone had alteady deleted them.

This applies to a whole range of behaviors; religion, morality, ethics, politics, ecomonics, sports...pick one. As regards faith syatements like,

"Theists are stupid,or at least less intelligent than atheists"

"Religion has caused all or most of the world's ills,and we would be beter off without it"

"Teaching children about religion is child abuse"

are good indicators. It's "extreme" when it passes "rude" like its standing still.

Unfortunately many folks never learned the rude lesson and have no emergency brake on their mouth.

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

^ Have you ever thought, Doc, that maybe some people are like that because they're sick and tired of the way laws are being made by theists that favour religion?  Creationism gets taught in science class, religions get special tax reliefs, same sex couples cannot marry, Catholics getting abortion banned, and so on and so forth.  Not to mention the way many atheists get treated by large groups of their opposite number in the states (calls for them to be banned from public office and so on).

 

Is it really any surprise that some atheists have decided to hit back in any way they can?  Certainly doesn't surprise me at all.

 

As far as I'm concerned; a science class is a place of science. As Creationism doesn't meet the dictionary definition of science, it doesn't belong in a science class.  If you -must- teach it in a school, then it belongs in a theology class, nowhere else.

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Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

Some science doesn't meet the textbook definition of "science" either, so where does that leave you?

As to their behavior, no excuse. No excuse for the Young Earth types either. Two sides of the same sad coin, and both are noisy beyond their actual numbers.

As to the schools, that is largely an overreaction to anti-theist activists going into religious districts and raising hell over things like invocations at sporting or graduation events, wearing crosses or Stars of David, faith based activities in the building after hours etc.

Perhaps both sides need to chill out.

Grand Master

ctebah

Posted
Posted

A view about personal beliefs becomes "extreme" when someone aggressively asserts "I'm right and anyone who disagrees is wrong."

Doesn't really apply to science vs religion though. In this case I side with science and science is right. Those that agree with religion are wrong. Their views are wrong. My opinion but it doesn't get more simple than that.

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but that doesn't make their beliefs true.

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

Forensic science has major problems in that many of its tools are not as definitive as portrayed before courts, fiber analysis, DNA and fingerprints specifically. There are others; the social and political sciences, psychology/psychiatry (especially as exemplified in the new DSM-5 which even the govt. is running away from), and many aspects of the physical sciences where proofs are extremely thin and assumptions rule as much as they do in religion.

Mentor

Clirion

Posted
Posted

** Citation needed.

My Favorite right now is String Theory. :)

 

As best as my feeble mind can get on this ( this is a semi joke, as I have plowed through some of it, put there is a point the head starts to spin. :) ) 11 dimensions are required for it to work.

Now this work working off of a base dimension of 4, time being added as a dimension on top of the three we have been really taught about.

 

 

This however, does not meant that creationism needs to be taught in Science class. 

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

Forensic science has major problems in that many of its tools are not as definitive as portrayed before courts, fiber analysis, DNA and fingerprints specifically. There are others; the social and political sciences, psychology/psychiatry (especially as exemplified in the new DSM-5 which even the govt. is running away from), and many aspects of the physical sciences where proofs are extremely thin and assumptions rule as much as they do in religion.

 

Whilst I agree with you on those fields, they're not exactly taught in science class. ;)

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

Wrong. My 14 year old grandson has college credits for his forensics classes, forensic entymology specifically. In high school we were taught particle physics and quantum mechanics. We built a linear electron accelerator with a cloud chamber detector as a class project. In the 1960's. In a rural district that had good teachers.

Grand Master

linsook

Posted
Posted

Wrong. My 14 year old grandson has college credits for his forensics classes, forensic entymology specifically. In high school we were taught particle physics and quantum mechanics as it was at the time. We built a linear electron accelerator with a cloud chamber detector as a class project. In the 1960's. In a rural district that had good teachers.

 

Forensics classes part of the mandatory stream?  Nice school board.  Now if you're talking about electives...

Grand Master

firey

Posted
Posted

Wrong. My 14 year old grandson has college credits for his forensics classes, forensic entymology specifically. In high school we were taught particle physics and quantum mechanics. We built a linear electron accelerator with a cloud chamber detector as a class project. In the 1960's. In a rural district that had good teachers.

 

Uhm.. I never learned about forensics in school.. you have to pick those courses.. you have to specialize in forensics.  It's not something the teacher goes: "Alright guys.. we have just finished the unit on ions and atoms.. now onto the next unit.. forensics!"

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

College prep track with career guidance.

The district buses them to a nearby college for advanced classes. In the high school proper they teach health sciences, robotics, computer science (with programming), business (including internships), culinary (with a restaurant), theater (1,000 seats), video media (with a full studio and green screen set), animation and many other specialized tracks.

The entire district is wired, including elementary buildings, and any educational media is available to any classroom. Each elementary has CAICs, computer aided instruction classrooms, where each kid has a dedicated workstation and teachers can deliver individualized tutoring from her workstation.

They even have a world religions class.

Rich district? No. Very middle class. The voters took the school out of the state formula, not taking state funds and the strings that come with them, and made district wide improvements using local taxes. Then they made mentoring agreements with area businesses, colleges etc.

It works.

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty sure the topic here is school, not college.  Schools are where these creationists are forcing their subject into the science class, where younger kids are trying to learn actual science, not fantasies. 

 

Show me a regular high school where anything other than standard Physics, Chemistry & Biology are taught, as part of the mainstream curriculum.

Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

College classes are a supplement, though they do get credits.

Basic high school physics is mechanical/electrical etc. There are districts here where 2nd level physics intertwines with calculus and chem/biochem. Why? The borders between those subjects is getting quite blurred, one example being photosynthesis being a quantum mechanical process. Kids exposed to this go to college well armed.

Grand Master

TPreston

Posted
Posted

Go Ken!! Evolution is a lie... 

 

http://www.biblevslies.com/liars/evolution.htm

Test your biblical glasses with the following link

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v86/n1/abs/6888080a.html

Mentor

Co-ords

Posted
Posted

Test your biblical glasses with the following link

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v86/n1/abs/6888080a.html

 

Evolution is a faith, you have to believe in it, it can not be proved. There is no evidence at all of evolution, most of what we are made to believe is based on elaborate assumption. I chose to believe in a loving God and Creator, you chose otherwise...

Rising Star

Houtei

Posted
Posted

I always find it funny the back and forth that goes on with creation and evolution.

 

The creationist basically believe in something that cant really be backed up by science and proved and has hundreds of variations and want it to be taught to kids and some Evolutionist get all butt hurt about it.

 

The Evolutionist basically believe in something that only to a very small extent can explained by science but has giant holes in the theory and can never be proved either  and just like creation has hundreds of variations and want ONLY it taught to kids as fact and some creationist get all butt hurt about it.

 

Maybe we just shouldn't teach crap about how we got here in schools.

Grand Master

ctebah

Posted
Posted

Evolution is a faith, you have to believe in it, it can not be proved. There is no evidence at all of evolution, most of what we are made to believe is based on elaborate assumption. I chose to believe in a loving God and Creator, you chose otherwise...

Hmm you couldn't be more wrong. There's ton of proof of evolution. Use google...

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