Neowin's NHL Discussion Thread

[Ayepecks]

how is it confusing? Puck goes in before players do. That's all. Its a lot more confusing than those goddamn baseball and football rules. there are similar rules in basketball, football, soccer and rugby. If american's are TRULEY that stupid that they cannot grasp the concept of the puck going in before the players do, then there is a serious education problem in that country. I really doubt that americans are that stupid especially when they can follow complex football strategies/plays.

Are you reading anything I say, or just pretending to?

It's hard to understand for people who see one game or two. Do you think they're going to understand it if they see it happen a few times and no one explain what's going on? It's not Canada, man, people don't grow up with it in the United States. I know the rules, but some of my friends and family members do not and that is the rule they most commonly ask about.

It's funny that you say if Americans "TRULEY that stupid" when you can't even spell "truly". :rolleyes:

[Ayepecks]

NO, NO, NO DON'T ADVERTISE THE GAME!!!!

Here's why....

First if this really happens, the Canadian hockey teams would be in BIG BIG trouble. Once the game is well known in the states the big sports television networks (FOX, ESPN...) will sign a big contract to the NHL, now here's the problem.

Will the big networks in states broadcast the Canadian hockey team's home games?

Of course not!! because there isn't enough Flames, Oilers, Canucks, Canadians, Ottawa, and Toronto fans in the states!

So what does this mean?

The Canadian hockey teams that's not profitable will move to the states and even if they are profitable they know that they will make a LOT more if they move to the states.

The american hockey teams will be able to afford more talented players but the price of players will definitely go up

Canucks- Eariler in the season they were for sale.

Flames- They haven't been able to make it to the play-offs for the last 7 years and they would need to go DEEP into the play-offs just to break even.

Oilers- They have declined a lot this season and they are the least valuable team in the NHL according to Forbes.

Canadians- A team that's fighting hard to get into the play-offs.

Ottawa- They are bankrupt but they are expected to win the cup.

Leafs- They are the center of media attention because hockey isn't popular in the states.

I don't think that the NHL would let that happen, for one. Two, the NHL is losing millions of dollars as it is, if they have to make it so a few teams make less money than others, but still make money (because of the national TV contracts), I think they'll do it. Also, Canadian teams are already on TV a good amount of the time, from what I've seen, because most are pretty good teams, if not just decent.

Again: the NHL is losing millions upon millions of dollars a year. I'd rather have a few teams that aren't making money gone than the NHL itself gone. If it wasn't facing money problems, I wouldn't say they need a bigger TV contract.

[CactuzJak]

well $^@& %$#^ $@^$ &%$. :angry: 2 wins in the last month?? gimme a friggen break. were supposed to be good this year.

No they werent, they were expected to be better obviously, but good, now that's taking it too far.

Go Leafs Go. 3-1 up on Ottawa 2nd intermission :D

[CatnipOligarchy]

No they werent, they were expected to be better obviously, but good, now that's taking it too far.

we were supposed to be good. we have bob hartley - one of the best coaches in the game, ilya kovalchuk, dany heatley is back now, marc savard, garnet exelby, and a host of other young players with loads of talent. they played to expectations through december, but have since really dropped back to where they were a year ago.

[CactuzJak]

You said it, young players, undeveloped players, thus getting better, a good coach, mind you he coached colorado, 2 established players, and a mediocore goalie doesnt make a good team.

[BMac]

we were supposed to be good. we have bob hartley - one of the best coaches in the game, ilya kovalchuk, dany heatley is back now, marc savard, garnet exelby, and a host of other young players with loads of talent. they played to expectations through december, but have since really dropped back to where they were a year ago.

Experience is the key that will make Atlanta successful. They are much better this year than last so be happy. Next year will be even better. Victories will come to your team in time. Especially with the talent you have. Be patient it will come.

On a side note, woohoo my leafs beat the sens. Not just beat on the scoreboard but physically and in every aspect of the game. Good to see them stack up verse a top team.

[CatnipOligarchy]

Experience is the key that will make Atlanta successful. They are much better this year than last so be happy. Next year will be even better. Victories will come to your team in time. Especially with the talent you have. Be patient it will come.

yeah i know were better than last year, the CBA is what scares me though. the future is so uncertain right now that next year isnt a given, i would love to be able to go to a couple of playoff games this season, and it would be huge for hockey in atlanta, theyve poured a lot of time and energy into this 5th season campaign.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I don't think that the NHL would let that happen, for one. Two, the NHL is losing millions of dollars as it is, if they have to make it so a few teams make less money than others, but still make money (because of the national TV contracts), I think they'll do it.

The NHL clubs SAY they are losing millions of dollars but they don't open up their books. If they ARE in trouble now then it'll only get worse once the new US TV deal is signed. It's expected to be a lot less than the $600 million dollar deal ABC signed a few years ago.

[khalsa]

Vancouver knocks off the Capitals 6-1, nucks are unstoppable.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Go Leafs Go. 3-1 up on Ottawa 2nd intermission :D

5-1 final? I don't believe it. I was afraid that Toronto would get plastered 7-1 again. You never know what Leaf team will show up.

And Domi wearing a visor on HNIC? That must have made Grapes go rather sour.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Vancouver knocks off the Capitals 6-1, nucks are unstoppable.

The 'nucks may be unstoppable but Washington isn't exactly the litmus test for that.

[Ji@nBing]

why is the nhl struggling? too many bloody expansion teams. i can think of 6 teams off the top of my head that have no buisness being in the nhl right now. i say take the 6 most unprofitable teams (other than the canadian ones) and fold them. my list would be tampa, florida, atlanta, nashville, columbus, carolina, and pittsburgh. move one of them to winnipeg and fold the rest. have like a draft where all the players are distibuted to the rest of the teams. salery cap HAS to be done. it's out of control and the nhl can't be profitable the way it is. also this way poorer teams can afford the best players. not just teams like new york and colorado can afford them. i could mention help for the canadian teams but it's just so blatently obvious i won't even bother.call the bloody obstuction peanalties!!! less hooking/grabbing=faster, more entertaining game. no need to get rid of the red line or offsides or anything like that. make the calls and it will fix itself!! insigator rule has got to go. i'm not even gonna comment on that, it's the stupidest rule ever and it's beyond comprehention. i could go on and on but i gotta go. i hope the nhl can fix itself cuz i can't imagine life without it

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

if you want to get rid of the least profitable teams you cant just ignore the canadian teams. I would just liek to see quebec and winnipeg with our teams back

[Ayepecks]

The NHL clubs SAY they are losing millions of dollars but they don't open up their books. If they ARE in trouble now then it'll only get worse once the new US TV deal is signed. It's expected to be a lot less than the $600 million dollar deal ABC signed a few years ago.

Well, considering that it'd be illegal to "say" and not mean what they're saying in that standpoint, I think they're telling the truth when they "say" they're losing millions. I can't think of a good reason for them to lie about it.

There is pretty much no plausable way that they would lose money by gaining a TV contract unless they went out and spent all the money they got for a new stadium for every team (obviously an exaggeration, but you get the gist). I don't see your logic behind it: even if they don't gain as much money as some of the bigger market teams, they'll be gaining a lot of money.

[Ayepecks]

why is the nhl struggling? too many bloody expansion teams. i can think of 6 teams off the top of my head that have no buisness being in the nhl right now. i say take the 6 most unprofitable teams (other than the canadian ones) and fold them. my list would be tampa, florida, atlanta, nashville, columbus, carolina, and pittsburgh. move one of them to winnipeg and fold the rest. have like a draft where all the players are distibuted to the rest of the teams. salery cap HAS to be done. it's out of control and the nhl can't be profitable the way it is. also this way poorer teams can afford the best players. not just teams like new york and colorado can afford them. i could mention help for the canadian teams but it's just so blatently obvious i won't even bother.call the bloody obstuction peanalties!!! less hooking/grabbing=faster, more entertaining game. no need to get rid of the red line or offsides or anything like that. make the calls and it will fix itself!! insigator rule has got to go. i'm not even gonna comment on that, it's the stupidest rule ever and it's beyond comprehention. i could go on and on but i gotta go. i hope the nhl can fix itself cuz i can't imagine life without it

Tampa Bay is a good team, as is Atlanta. I'm not sure why'd you want to fold them. I say remove those teams and add Phoenix and possibly Buffalo. I think it's funny that you want to remove the unprofitable teams, too, but that you don't want to remove the Canadian ones.

Plus, Carolina (Hartford Whalers) and Pittsburg both have some history behind them. There would be a good amount of people whining over that. Not to mention Carolina, Tampa, and Columbus all sell a fair amount of tickets last I heard.

[SOB BOT]

Not to mention Carolina, Tampa, and Columbus all sell a fair amount of tickets last I heard.

No they don't....

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Well, considering that it'd be illegal to "say" and not mean what they're saying in that standpoint, I think they're telling the truth when they "say" they're losing millions. I can't think of a good reason for them to lie about it.

There is pretty much no plausable way that they would lose money by gaining a TV contract unless they went out and spent all the money they got for a new stadium for every team (obviously an exaggeration, but you get the gist). I don't see your logic behind it: even if they don't gain as much money as some of the bigger market teams, they'll be gaining a lot of money.

It's not illegal. It's easy enough to funnel money from one company to another. It's only illegal if you attempt to hide it from the shareholders but hockey teams are not public entities. They could have one company that pays the players and reports a big loss while a separate company (with the same owners) reap profits from "management fees". The books are closed. Canada Revenue and Customs or the IRS could do an tax audit but they can't tell them how a private entity should disclose information to the public.

I can think of a HUGE reason to lie about it. Make the players THINK that they are losing big money. Make they players THINK that the league is not sustainable and get them to agree to massive financial consessions. They the clubs could reap even BIGGER profits.

The next TV contract will be less than the last one. There won't be any NEW money. Nobody will be gaining money unless it comes from player consessions. ABC overpaid for their last contract and they won't do it again.

[Ayepecks]

You cannot give false quarterly information, something that the NHL clubs give. Tell me how that would classify as not being illegal? You also cannot funnel money from one company to another in the way you stated. That is also illegal in the United States. I don't know what they allow in Canada, but you simply can't do that in the United States.

Again, illegal. The labor union would be entitled to correct information from the owners, since they have written agreements signed. Players don't THINK they're losing big money: they either KNOW it or KNOW they're MAKING money.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting your "facts" about the legality of business operations, but I certainly wouldn't hire you ;)

:laugh: (Kidding, as I'm sure you can tell.)

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Not to mention Carolina, Tampa, and Columbus all sell a fair amount of tickets last I heard.

Carolina doesn't anymore.

Here is the Home Game Attendence Averages for 2004 (c/o ESPN)

1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Montreal ? ? ? ?27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 20,183
2 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Detroit ? ? ? ? ? 26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 20,066
3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Toronto ? ? ? ? ?24 ? ? ? ? ? ? 19,337
4 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Philadelphia ? ?24 ? ? ? ? ? ? 19,255
5 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Vancouver ? ? ?26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 18,631
6 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?St. Louis ? ? ? ? 27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 18,560
7 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Minnesota ? ? ? 27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 18,529
8 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Dallas ? ? ? ? ? ?26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 18,347
9 ? ? ? ? ? ? ?NY Rangers ? ?27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 18,038
10 ? ? ? ? ? ? Colorado ? ? ? 25 ? ? ? ? ? ? 18,007
11 ? ? ? ? ? ? Los Angeles ? 27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 17,759
12 ? ? ? ? ? ? Ottawa ? ? ? ? ?29 ? ? ? ? ? ? 17,534
13 ? ? ? ? ? ? Columbus ? ? ?29 ? ? ? ? ? ? 17,250
14 ? ? ? ? ? ? Tampa Bay ? ?25 ? ? ? ? ? ? 17,012
15 ? ? ? ? ? ? Edmonton ? ? ?26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 16,645
16 ? ? ? ? ? ? Calgary ? ? ? ? 27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 16,238
17 ? ? ? ? ? ? San Jose ? ? ? 26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 15,581
18 ? ? ? ? ? ? Florida ? ? ? ? ?27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 15,473
19 ? ? ? ? ? ? Buffalo ? ? ? ? ?25 ? ? ? ? ? ? 15,085
20 ? ? ? ? ? ? Anaheim ? ? ? 26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 14,985
21 ? ? ? ? ? ? Atlanta ? ? ? ? ?29 ? ? ? ? ? ? 14,751
22 ? ? ? ? ? ? Washington ? 26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 14,596
23 ? ? ? ? ? ? Boston ? ? ? ? ?26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 14,510
24 ? ? ? ? ? ? New Jersey ? ?25 ? ? ? ? ? ? 14,483
25 ? ? ? ? ? ? Phoenix ? ? ? ? 13 ? ? ? ? ? ? 14,036
26 ? ? ? ? ? ? Chicago ? ? ? ? 24 ? ? ? ? ? ? 13,584
27 ? ? ? ? ? ? NY Islanders ? 26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 12,879
28 ? ? ? ? ? ? Nashville ? ? ? ?27 ? ? ? ? ? ? 12,491
29 ? ? ? ? ? ? Pittsburgh ? ? ?26 ? ? ? ? ? ? 12,063
30 ? ? ? ? ? ? Carolina ? ? ? ?29 ? ? ? ? ? ? 11,782

What's with Phoenix only playing 13 home games so far this season?

[Fred Derf Veteran]

You cannot give false quarterly information, something that the NHL clubs give. Tell me how that would classify as not being illegal? You also cannot funnel money from one company to another in the way you stated. That is also illegal in the United States. I don't know what they allow in Canada, but you simply can't do that in the United States.

Again, illegal. The labor union would be entitled to correct information from the owners, since they have written agreements signed. Players don't THINK they're losing big money: they either KNOW it or KNOW they're MAKING money.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting your "facts" about the legality of business operations, but I certainly wouldn't hire you ;)

:laugh: (Kidding, as I'm sure you can tell.)

The "rules" that you mention are only for publically trading companies. Last time I checked the NYR were not listed on the DOW (well actually N-Y-R is probably used by somebody on the DOW but it isn't the New York Rangers).

NHL clubs are privately owned. My business is privately owned. I don't need to report any numbers publically especially to my employees (signed written agreements or not). Yes I have to report financial information to the tax collection agencies but they don't pass this information on to my employees or the general public. It's a private business with they key word being PRIVATE.

How much money did the Toronto Maple Leafs make (or lose) last year? You won't find this information. Some people try to make educated guesses but the big clubs always dismiss those claims.

[JaredVolkl]

What's with Phoenix only playing 13 home games so far this season?

That's probably just in their new stadium.

And did anyone see the Wild vs. Blues tonight!? Roli had a shutout. Walz had 2 goals including a shorted handed penalty shot and there were fights galore. I loved every minute of that game! 4-0 WILD!

[kainashi]

detroit vs. colorado tonight. i can't wait, it's going to be a great game. :D

[CatnipOligarchy]

atlanta vs philly tonight. its been an awful month or so for the thrashers, it would be great to go into the all star break on a good note

[-Clark-]

haha the baby in atlanta got benched. :yes:

niitty got us in first. :woot:

what about those crappy refs in colorado. must have woke up just in time to give the game away. :angry:

[CatnipOligarchy]

i am now past the anger stage with atlanta and have gone into the annual disappointment stage. i'm getting close to the point where i start focusing all my attention on the upcoming baseball season. :(