dc Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

[Circaflex]

13 minutes ago, Syanide said:

So Snyder directed a movie that is a visual extravaganza, has convoluted plot overburdened with the JL setup, poor characterization, and has the sensibility of a 12 year old imagining what "grim" and "mature" is supposed to be like. Color me shocked.

 

The reviews read like "Man of Steel" reviews, which is unfortunately what I expected. I'll still give it a fair shot, but one thing that completely turns me off from seeing it, is that Batman kills people. It kind of ruins the character, both in his relationship with Superman, but more importantly, it ruins his dynamic with the Joker. Batman's rule is the one thing that prevents him from being a complete lunatic, it's basically what separates him from the Joker.

Except Batman has killed in the comics. 

[Syanide]

1 hour ago, Circaflex said:

Except Batman has killed in the comics. 

 

So? Superman didn't fly at first in the comics, but flying is still probably the number one association you have about the character. I don't care about exceptions, they just prove that it's a rule. Batman doesn't kill because that would basically tip him over the edge to full-blown lunacy. It also defines his relationship with the Joker. If he killed people, he would have (and should have) killed Joker first. In this movie especially it should have stayed a rule. Batman's beef with Superman is that Superman's dangerous, so he wants to keep him in check. How does him recklessly killing people tie into that? And as someone pointed out on reddit, it's especially important within the context of the Justice League: Batman doesn't compromise on his rule there, because otherwise you have god-tier superheroes taking the justice into their own hand. I dunno, I still need to see the movie, but this one element is really rubbing me the wrong way.

[Hurmoth]

1 hour ago, Circaflex said:

Except Batman has killed in the comics. 

Yeah, even in Tim Burton's version, he killed a lot of people. Or at least attempted to. I can't fault the film for that characteristic since it isn't unique to this film.

 

On another note, this is the best review article title I've seen: "Batman V Superman: The Showgirls of superhero films" http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/03/batman-v-superman-the-showgirls-of-superhero-films/  

[Circaflex]

2 hours ago, Syanide said:

 

So? Superman didn't fly at first in the comics, but flying is still probably the number one association you have about the character. I don't care about exceptions, they just prove that it's a rule. Batman doesn't kill because that would basically tip him over the edge to full-blown lunacy. It also defines his relationship with the Joker. If he killed people, he would have (and should have) killed Joker first. In this movie especially it should have stayed a rule. Batman's beef with Superman is that Superman's dangerous, so he wants to keep him in check. How does him recklessly killing people tie into that? And as someone pointed out on reddit, it's especially important within the context of the Justice League: Batman doesn't compromise on his rule there, because otherwise you have god-tier superheroes taking the justice into their own hand. I dunno, I still need to see the movie, but this one element is really rubbing me the wrong way.

I merely pointed that out because if your one gripe was in the movie he kills people, than I don't know what to tell you.

[LOC Veteran]

11 hours ago, Hurmoth said:

Yeah, even in Tim Burton's version, he killed a lot of people. Or at least attempted to. I can't fault the film for that characteristic since it isn't unique to this film.

 

On another note, this is the best review article title I've seen: "Batman V Superman: The Showgirls of superhero films" http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/03/batman-v-superman-the-showgirls-of-superhero-films/  

In 89 Batman, he literally blew a dude up lol

[McCordRm]

I could care less about a bunch of whiners on a review site trying to un-hype a movie.

Seriously, the hate was real the second Affleck was announced as Batman... just like when Heath Ledger

was announced as The Joker. And I keep saying it-- I believed the anti-hype, but then the man nailed it. Hard.

I'm going to see this movie. I'm probably going to love the ever-living hell out of it. Why? Because it's Batman vs Superman... finally.

[George P Global Moderator]

I'm very interested in the directors cut that's another 30mins, i think the problem is that they cut out too much so things don't develop quite right. I'm going in thinking of this as just the start of things and expect different subplots to remain open for future films to work off of.

[Som]

20 hours ago, Syanide said:

So Snyder directed a movie that is a visual extravaganza, has convoluted plot overburdened with the JL setup, poor characterization, and has the sensibility of a 12 year old imagining what "grim" and "mature" is supposed to be like. Color me shocked.

 

The reviews read like "Man of Steel" reviews, which is unfortunately what I expected. I'll still give it a fair shot, but one thing that completely turns me off from seeing it, is that Batman kills people. It kind of ruins the character, both in his relationship with Superman, but more importantly, it ruins his dynamic with the Joker. Batman's rule is the one thing that prevents him from being a complete lunatic, it's basically what separates him from the Joker.

I just watched it last night and personally I found it way better than Man of Steel ( I didn't much like Man of Steel, but I loved this) .. I also found it did justice (no pun intended) to a number of comics.  There are some minor faults but I'd say a lot of negativity is from people who haven't read the comics which isn't good for mass appeal but is for us nerds

[GotBored]

Looks good from the trailers.

 

Zack Snyder has directed some ###### movies but he also did 300 which was an awesome movie and I personally liked both Man of Steel and another movie that isn't very well known called Legend of the Guardians: Owls of Ga'Hoole that he directed, so I hope this one turns out okay too.

 

From early indications of the box office it looks successful money wise at least even with all the poor reviews.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

 

 

 

[FunkyMike]

11 minutes ago, Andrew said:

 

 

 

Quote

He's having Daredevil flashbacks.

hehe

[Hurmoth]

Here's some of the funniest review snippets:

 

• "Oof, Lex Luthor is a drag. Jesse Eisenberg preens and over-enunciates and waxes crazily pedantic, like no one told him he's not in a Sorkin movie anymore; his method of conveying Brilliant Insanity is to make as though he just ingested touring funk band quantities of cocaine." —Deadspin
• "Directed by Zack Snyder, of faithfully butchered Watchmen fame, Batman V Superman takes a title fight kids of all ages have been speculating about for decades—costumed titan from the cosmos, meet costumed vigilante from the city—and invests it with all the fun of a protracted custody battle." —A.V. Club
• "The studio has, in the usual way, begged and bullied critics not to reveal plot points, and I wouldn't dream of denying you the thrill of discovering just how overstuffed and preposterous a movie narrative can be." —The New York Times
• "Not as bad as Bush v. Gore, but close."—Chicago Reader
• "Gotham City is actually Jersey City. Or maybe it's Hoboken. Whatever, it's right across the river from Metropolis/Manhattan, which makes sense in this movie, because Cavill's Superman is one of those graceful 1-percenters with no body fat and hand-tailored outfits that not even a nuclear warhead can wrinkle. He doesn't sweat, whereas you just know Affleck's Batman has a bad case of bridge-and-tunnel B.O." —Boston Globe
• "With Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, the movie division of DC Entertainment and the parent studio, Warner Bros., have given the fanboys and the Nolanoids what they crave—and lo, it is impressive and, lo, it is godawful." —Vulture
• "Human trafficking, intimations of child abuse (Luthor mutters about suffering his father's "fist and abominations"), a hollowed-out Superman resigning himself to the notion that "no one stays good in this world"….the film is only slightly more pessimistic than Lars von Trier's Antichrist. You'd have to go back to Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ to find this much Christian iconography wedded to this much sadism." —Chicago Tribune

[LOC Veteran]

Yeah, I think they leaned a bit to heavily into the dreary no hope aspect of this world. I mean, I get it they want it to be different than Marvel blah blah. And they want it to be at least somewhat grounded in reality. But you are talking about an alien dude who is basically a god and another dude who dresses up as a Bat and beats people up for a living who is also super smart and super rich. Not to mention they are setting up Justice League, who has a dude who can run fast enough to go into other dimensions, a dude who lives under water and talks with fishies and another dude who got messed up and got all Robocop-ed. Not to mention an Amazonian woman who can throw down real good and has a LASSO OF TRUTH.

 

CRACK A JOKE ONCE IN AWHILE MAYBE. A SMILE? HELLO? Eh.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

26 minutes ago, LOC said:

Yeah, I think they leaned a bit to heavily into the dreary no hope aspect of this world. I mean, I get it they want it to be different than Marvel blah blah. And they want it to be at least somewhat grounded in reality. But you are talking about an alien dude who is basically a god and another dude who dresses up as a Bat and beats people up for a living who is also super smart and super rich. Not to mention they are setting up Justice League, who has a dude who can run fast enough to go into other dimensions, a dude who lives under water and talks with fishies and another dude who got messed up and got all Robocop-ed. Not to mention an Amazonian woman who can throw down real good and has a LASSO OF TRUTH.

 

CRACK A JOKE ONCE IN AWHILE MAYBE. A SMILE? HELLO? Eh.

That has been my problem with the recent DC comic movies.  Short of Heath Ledger's performance in The Dark Knight ... they are good movies ... just not fun(?) to watch.

 

As Heath Ledger would say to Warner Bros...

[George P Global Moderator]

Why can't a movie be fun without comedy though? Do people equate fun with funny at this point? I understand what DC wants to do, this movie tries to do too much and messes up but having a different tone to marvel doesn't mean it can't be a fun/entertaining movie. I think WB rushed it, they needed to do just a second MoS movie with a little batman to better setup things for BvS.  This doesn't reflect the outcome for SS or the WW movies though, different writers and so on.

 

On a side note, the bad reviews will push the higher ups at WB to stick closer to the comics, it's what everyone is saying, at the most Goyer will never touch another WB script, which is also possible and for many a bonus. I don't blame Snyder though, a directors job is to take the script the studio wants and to make the movie, from all the people who are critical about the story and development say the visuals and cinematography are top notch, the fights are great, and it overall looks great, so imo, the director did his job.  I think WB should just get the DC writers to work on the movies from this point on.

[SYBINX]

Just watched BvS-DOJ... No spoilers in here.... I wouldn't want to spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen it.

 

I've just watched it... I thought I'd give my short view of the movie. Although, it's quite a lengthy movie weighing in at a whopping 2hrs 30 mins. It does however go by quite quickly. Not at all dull or boring in any part of the movie. But is it worth paying to watching a movie where every single DC Comic fan on the planet knows the story of Bruce Wayne who witnesses the murder of his parents then decades later he becomes Batman. Okay put all that to one side and throw away the book on Batman and look at it from a different perspective.

 

Jesse Eisenberg is brilliant as Luthor. Affleck as Batman pulled it off and didn't disappoint one bit. I was dreading the thought of yet another actor pitying Batman. But in fact I think he pulled it off quite well indeed. You soon forget Affleck was playing Batman. I enjoyed it. It's full of awesome Special FX, the CGI is flawless but flaky in minor parts which I noticed straight away which kind of spoiled it for me. It's got a good story, a strong cast. And a great Director and Producer. And a Batman wouldn't be a Batman movie without the legendary Hans Zimmer as composer for the music in the movie.

 

If you're a big DC Comic fan like myself then go and watch it. Although I can't wait for the Lego Batman Movie which is out in 2017 as this was trailered before the Movie as it looks very funny indeed.

Edited March 25, 2016 by SYBINX

[Jim K Global Moderator]

13 minutes ago, George P said:

Why can't a movie be fun without comedy though? Do people equate fun with funny at this point? I understand what DC wants to do, this movie tries to do too much and messes up but having a different tone to marvel doesn't mean it can't be a fun/entertaining movie. I think WB rushed it, they needed to do just a second MoS movie with a little batman to better setup things for BvS.  This doesn't reflect the outcome for SS or the WW movies though, different writers and so on.

Just to touch on this.  You do not need to equate "fun" to comedy.  For example, (IMO), when the Millennium Falcon was first seen in The Force Awakens ... that was fun (people in the theater cheering, my heart beating a little faster) ... but it wasn't comedy.  When Solo and Chewbacca stepped onto the MF, that was fun (same experience as stated previously).  So movies can be "fun to watch" without comedy.  Heath Ledger's role in The Dark Knight was a mixture of both fun and comedy (if that makes sense?)  To me, the recent DC Comics are good ... I just feel depressed (not really...but maybe you get the idea) after watching them.

 

[George P Global Moderator]

34 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

Just to touch on this.  You do not need to equate "fun" to comedy.  For example, (IMO), when the Millennium Falcon was first seen in The Force Awakens ... that was fun (people in the theater cheering, my heart beating a little faster) ... but it wasn't comedy.  When Solo and Chewbacca stepped onto the MF, that was fun (same experience as stated previously).  So movies can be "fun to watch" without comedy.  Heath Ledger's role in The Dark Knight was a mixture of both fun and comedy (if that makes sense?)  To me, the recent DC Comics are good ... I just feel depressed (not really...but maybe you get the idea) after watching them.

 

I get what you're saying, so far this is very much on the depressing/bleak side, i won't say dark, i think that word is used wrong in lots of movies, you can be a dark and gritty movie but not be so far south that you're in lets slash our wrists territory. I also believe that things will change as we get into the core JL movies and all the heroes come together and save the world.  I like the fact that the movie has a more real take on the aftermath and what people reactions to post-MoS would be like. Not everyone being a supporter of superman who saved the world and so on.  

 

Again, the movie does too much and too soon, but I think, without going into spoilers, the setup for what comes next is there and it's solid. Also, for whatever reason they cut too much out in this version, I think the longer directors cut has more development. 

[LOC Veteran]

Look let's be honest. We all know DC/WB made a mistake by going this route for their movie-verse. They should have taken the time to build the characters out in their own movies first. I know they want to catch up with Marvel before Avengers 15 comes out (lol) but really guys? I've always loved DC more than Marvel back in the 80's when I collected comics but I love Marvel just the same really. I love their movie universe. It's serious at times while being light as well. DC is just going down a weird route to get where they want to be I guess. I mean, we are going to have a Justice League movie which is AMAZING. But we are also going to have a JL movie before a Flash solo movie, before a Cyborg solo movie, before an Aquaman solo movie. (I think?)

 

The only solo before JL is Wonder Woman right? If I'm wrong, then ok I guess that's a bit better. But they are RUSHING things and the movies are going to suffer for it imo.

[chrisj1968]

I'm not aware of this but, what is this beef between Superman and Batman?

[LOC Veteran]

2 minutes ago, chrisj1968 said:

I'm not aware of this but, what is this beef between Superman and Batman?

Superman is an alien. He destroyed Metropolis (along with Zod) in Man of Steel. Batman hates Superman (plus some other stuff).

[George P Global Moderator]

19 minutes ago, LOC said:

Look let's be honest. We all know DC/WB made a mistake by going this route for their movie-verse. They should have taken the time to build the characters out in their own movies first. I know they want to catch up with Marvel before Avengers 15 comes out (lol) but really guys? I've always loved DC more than Marvel back in the 80's when I collected comics but I love Marvel just the same really. I love their movie universe. It's serious at times while being light as well. DC is just going down a weird route to get where they want to be I guess. I mean, we are going to have a Justice League movie which is AMAZING. But we are also going to have a JL movie before a Flash solo movie, before a Cyborg solo movie, before an Aquaman solo movie. (I think?)

 

The only solo before JL is Wonder Woman right? If I'm wrong, then ok I guess that's a bit better. But they are RUSHING things and the movies are going to suffer for it imo.

Well, not really, i don't think the first jl movie will suffer by going this rout, because of a few things, and i won't spoil bvs so i have to leave one of those reasons out, i'll just say it's flash related. The other reasons is because we already have superman set through MoS, and developed a bit more in bvs, WW is getting her movie next, and everyone knows batman already, we don't need yet another batman origin movie just for this new  CU.  So the trinity is covered, that leaves flash and aquaman for the first JL movie.

 

So, unless things change we're getting a buch of solo movies before JL2 hits, i think they're not going to be in order, that is, just like with the WW movie, i think all the solo movies will take place before the events in bvs and jl1.  The solo movies coming after jl2, cyborg and GL corps, will probably use the events of jl2 as a starting point. Sure it's not lined up in order like the marvel movies but then again i think it works this way to.

[McCordRm]

11 hours ago, chrisj1968 said:

I'm not aware of this but, what is this beef between Superman and Batman?

At the end of the day, it comes down to their directly opposite mindset towards "Justice". I won't go into the movie universe, but from the source material you have Superman who believes in Truth, Justice, and The American Way which means bringing criminals before a jury for a trial, whereas Batman doesn't think that system has the desired effect. They end up coming to blows because the system that Superman fights for requires that Batman be viewed as a criminal, and Superman is told to bring him in. That's pretty much it. In the end, Batman makes Superman realize he is, basically, a necessary evil. When superpowered beings get out of line-- including Superman-- Batman is the one guarantee they'll be stopped... which he proves by beating Superman, himself.

[George P Global Moderator]

Justice league part 1 starts filming on April 11th, and it will have a lighter tone, mostly because of flash being there they say. So it sounds like the plan is to start off dark like they have and go lighter with the justice league coming together, etc. 

[President Devil]

I won't spoil too much for everyone.

I have to say, I was wrong about Ben Affleck, he actually makes a killer Batman and played the part perfectly. I actually want to see more of that.

Jesse Eisenberg's acting sucked, he would have made a better Joker.

The action in this movie is truly top notch, but the story falls apart. It tried to put too much into one film and it sacrified the coherence IMO.
I also don't know how they want to continue with the Justice League after how it ended.

Oh well, at least we got to see Amy Adams' wet boobies. Wonder Woman...meh.