2-Year-Old Accidentally Kills His Mom in Wal-Mart

[Arachno 1D]

think: without the bomb, how much does the victims chance of survival increase? ..... without the gun, how much does the victims chance of survival increase?

Which victim are you referring to the one whose country was attacked and defending itself circa WW2 or the woman in the car park defending herself from an attacker wielding a knife.......

[Rippleman]

Which victim are you referring to the one whose country was attacked and defending itself circa WW2 or the woman in the car park defending herself from an attacker wielding a knife.......

 

This is the mindset of a pro-gun person... always the victim and never the attacker. Flip the coin and look at the other side.

[Arachno 1D]

So you would strip all people everywhere of a legally owned weapon because you make a massive non-logically based assumption that they are an aggressor in any and all situations,,,,,,how closed minded is that.Not only that but criminals would still have illegally owned weapons to do with as they wish.

[Ralph3100]

Rights can change as needed. It may not be a right forever and will change accordingly. It used to be a doctors right to prescribe cocaine, but, with increased knowledge and understanding, we learned that we should not be. It is a right today, but society and needs change and with that, rights and their interpretations change with it.

 

Until police can be onsite as an attack happens 100% of the time, governments are no longer corrupt, there is no longer a threat of foreign powers which want to harm us, and evil people no longer exist, this right should never be taken away. It is the only real means that good people have to protect themselves.

 

As for your statement about cocaine, it is schedule 2 meaning that there are still listed medical uses for it and it can be prescribed. 

[Rippleman]

So you would strip all people everywhere of a legally owned weapon because you make a massive non-logically based assumption that they are an aggressor in any and all situations,,,,,,how closed minded is that.Not only that but criminals would still have illegally owned weapons to do with as they wish.

 

I don't see anyone assuming what you just claimed was being assumed. It was simply a correction to the assumption that guns/bombs have no accountability to being a part of a larger problem. 

As for your statement about cocaine, it is schedule 2 meaning that there are still listed medical uses for it and it can be prescribed. 

i should have used a different example, I am not a doctor and did not know it was still issued in the USA.

[Ralph3100]

This is the mindset of a pro-gun person... always the victim and never the attacker. Flip the coin and look at the other side.

 

Think about it: with a gun, how much does the victims chance of survival increase? Taking away guns doesn't solve the problem of evil people, especially when bombs and other devices are so easy to make with just a rudimentary knowledge of chemistry.

[Rippleman]

Until police can be onsite as an attack happens 100% of the time, governments are no longer corrupt, there is no longer a threat of foreign powers which want to harm us, and evil people no longer exist, this right should never be taken away. It is the only real means that good people have to protect themselves.

 

Rights come in various levels. Guns are subject to these levels. Example: You are NOT given the right to own a Gatling gun.

[Ralph3100]

Rights come in various levels. Guns are subject to these levels. Example: You are NOT given the right to own a Gatling gun.

 

Actually, I can with the correct licenses. They are heavily regulated though.

 

The gun we are talking about here though is a simple pistol though. There should be no reason for overburdensome regulation on this item. Where you want government intervention, regulation, and squashing of rights - I want personal responsibility and awareness.

[+Warwagon MVC]

That's one badass 2 year old.

[Rippleman]

Where you want government intervention, regulation, and squashing of rights - I want personal responsibility and awareness.

 

what you again are claiming is something this is not true. I believe some people need it, and some don't. No squashing involved.

[Rippleman]

I want personal responsibility and awareness.

 

 This is also what i would want... to the EXTREME though... not the weak broken system it is currently.

[FloatingFatMan]

Just because you do not have the freedom to protect yourself across the pond does not make those here pathetic for wanting to do so. We rely on personal responsibility which she showed a lack of in that moment.

 

You say we don't have the freedom to protect ourselves? I respond with, we have no NEED to have to protect ourselves!  Here, people are not armed, not even criminals (generally), so we have no need to walk around with a gun at all times, ready to use deadly force at a moments notice.

 

In fact, I find it quite sad that you guys DO...

[+Raze Subscriber²]

You say we don't have the freedom to protect ourselves? I respond with, we have no NEED to have to protect ourselves!  Here, people are not armed, not even criminals (generally), so we have no need to walk around with a gun at all times, ready to use deadly force at a moments notice.

 

In fact, I find it quite sad that you guys DO...

 

He said nothing about need.  He spoke about freedom.  I am free to carry or not. I do not.  A criminal without a weapon can still cause great harm and I prefer to protect myself by either fleeing, complying or by direct physical means (punching, kicking, etc).  Your reason for sadness is unwarranted.

[FloatingFatMan]

He said nothing about need.  He spoke about freedom.  I am free to carry or not. I do not.  A criminal without a weapon can still cause great harm and I prefer to protect myself by either fleeing, complying or by direct physical means (punching, kicking, etc).  Your reason for sadness is unwarranted.

 

If you weren't living a country rife with gun violence, so many of you wouldn't feel the need to exercise their freedom to carry guns.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

If you weren't living a country rife with gun violence, so many of you wouldn't feel the need to exercise their freedom to carry guns.

 

Obviously. Yes gun violence is a very, very unfortunate part of American life.  Hopefully over time we can stop it.

[Lamp0]

Which is more politically motivated: The one that spreads FUD to try and take away rights and property, or the one that sheds light on logical flaws of the other to retain their rights and property?

 

 

Trying to present this as a black or white issue over rights & property is, I think, disingenuous. And I don't think such arguments shed light on anything. It's just shallow point scoring.

[DocM]

Obviously. Yes gun violence is a very, very unfortunate part of American life. Hopefully over time we can stop it.

And while the hand-wringers wail away about guns yet again;

as the number of US firearms has increased to over 300 million our murder rate is almost as low as it was in 1960, 55 years ago, and passing that it'll be near the level it was at around 1913.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

And while the hand-wringers wail away about guns yet again;

as the number of US firearms has increased to over 300 million our murder rate is almost as low as it was in 1960, 55 years ago, and passing that it'll be near the level it was at around 1913.

 

 

Doc, your bias is well known.  Any kind of stat is a good stat to you.  Just because gun ownership has increased does not mean there is a correlation between that and the general decline of crime in the US.

 

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1993-2012.xls

 

 

Oh, and in case you've forgotten I am a gun owner.

[DocM]

And you're ignoring all the other points on the graph.

The peaks coincided with the depression and periods of lage scale gang warfare (prohibition, the cocaine and heroin turf wars etc.) The recent declines reflect an aging population, liberalized self defense laws, and the successes of R.I.C.O. - the federal anti-organized crime law.

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

For the members who say, "women are attacked all the time in shopping centers", how common is it to get attacked in broad day light at a Walmart? I can see late at night, evening, or dawn, but in the daytime during a busy shopping time of the year? I just see no need to carry at all in this type of environment. She could have parked closer to the entrance of the store and left that gun in her trunk secured. It's sad that we've become a society in the U.S. that feels the need to "carry all the time".

[+Raze Subscriber²]

And you're ignoring all the other points on the graph.

The peaks coincided with the depression and periods of lage scale gang warfare (prohibition, the cocaine and heroin turf wars etc.) The recent declines reflect an aging population, liberalized self defense laws, and the successes of R.I.C.O. - the federal anti-organized crime law.

 

I responded to your statement regarding the increase in gun ownership and the graph.  Moving the goal posts?  How typical of you.  The increase in the early 1900's began before the Prohibition of 1920.  The Depression saw a large increase.  No, I didn't ignore anything.  

[FloatingFatMan]

And while the hand-wringers wail away about guns yet again;

as the number of US firearms has increased to over 300 million our murder rate is almost as low as it was in 1960, 55 years ago, and passing that it'll be near the level it was at around 1913.

 

 

 

Gun's don't cause violence, but they sure as hell escalate it!

[Arachno 1D]

[Rippleman]

 

 

are claiming one is the causation of the other?

[DocM]

For the members who say, "women are attacked all the time in shopping centers", how common is it to get attacked in broad day light at a Walmart? I can see late at night, evening, or dawn, but in the daytime during a busy shopping time of the year? I just see no need to carry at all in this type of environment. She could have parked closer to the entrance of the store and left that gun in her trunk secured. It's sad that we've become a society in the U.S. that feels the need to "carry all the time".

Wal-Mart is only one of many 24 hour store chains, including grocery and pharmacies, so limiting it to Wal-Mart in daylight hours, especially during northern US winters, is cherry picking.

Under self defense laws assault, sexual assault etc. trigger the right to aggressive self defense, including the use deadly force if one is on fear of serious harm or rape. What good is that right without the means to accomplish it?

US Bureau of Justice Statistics,

Violent victimization = assault, rape, etc. but not murders.

The percentages are of non-murder violent crimes averaged over 4 years. Total crimes/year averaged 5.5 million. Murder increases the stats beyond the percentage listed.

Commercial places: 12.1%

(restaurant, bar, office etc)

In parking areas: 7.3%

(parking lot or garage)

In public places: 17.6%

(Street, park, public transit)

At school: 13.0%

Do the math.