Is Microsoft ignoring the desktop again?

[kala-kas]

I haven't watched the entire video but I have a good idea of what Cortana does. I still don't see the purpose of including her at all.

 

I agree and I watched the whole live broadcast. I just do not find use for it in my life, I dont like the fact that the computer listens to me all the time first of all, kind of makes me scare of the TVs that listened and recorded your every word, I dont trust this kind of thing. And I really dont want it to tell me the weather, make me a calendar appointments or send emails for me.

I'm not a native english speaker, so I bet it would be hard for her to understand me. My main language is actually estonian and you bet the Cortana support for that will not be here for years to come and even if it will come eventually, I still do not find myself talking ta a machine. It's silly thing for me.

 

Globally the Cortana is not such a *feature* they claim to be, it is limited to certain countries only.

 

[Dot Matrix]

Can you see the wallpaper in front of you with start menu on your left hand side of your screen on your Windows 10 TP build on your PC right now?

 

Yes? Then you have the desktop. It's right there with the taskbar at the bottom.

 

No? Then you must be a troll staring at the start screen and saying "Oh, That's neat! Mommy, look at the live tiles all over the screen! Yay!"

 

I barely see my wallpaper at all. And my start is running fill screen, so no.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Regarding OP title: No, most definitely not.

 

I can type in stuff in the search box in the start menu for many, many years already.
My point still stands, Cortona is totally useless for the desktop user because it doesn't add anything useful. (Unless you're one of the few which have a microphone.)

 

"few that have a microphone". I'm sorry but pretty much everyone i know uses a mic or a web cam with a mic. 

I will also be making good use of Cortana, so your argument fails.

[George P Global Moderator]

What's with the attack on Cortana , I don't get it. Who has a mic on their desktop? Like you need to talk to her to make it work, you don't, type works fine. And no, the search box in the start menu is no where close to the same thing. Now with the microphone arguments falling short we'll just attack it as pointless, so don't use it? There's features in any OS that someone will find "pointless", the key here is that it's pointless to them, not everyone.

 

With Cortana on the desktop and the phone it all syncs, you can set things on the desktop that show up on the phone.  With deeper integration with apps you can do multitasking through voice without being at the desktop or while you're working on something else. At that point it's a productivity tool as well. Again, if you don't want to use it then don't.

[PGHammer]

Well, I wasn't saying the use in Windows would be limited. I already use Cortana for non-voice on WP8.

 

On Teamspeak etc I usually use headset with a mic, but when Win10 is installed, I'll definitely use my desktop mic always on.

 

Regarding someone last page who said Win has had voice control for several versions... yea, it did, but that voice control sucked and was very limited in application.

And that was, in fact, an issue - it was very limited.

 

The question begs WHY was it limited.

 

One issue with the desktop (as we have known it) is that it has been deliberately hobbled in terms of user interaction - let's face it; there are a LOT of "fiefdoms and ricebowls" that have their protectors (hence the hew and cry of "do not move").

[Dot Matrix]

I have a mic on my headset.

[techbeck]

What's with the attack on Cortana , I don't get it. Who has a mic on their desktop? Like you need to talk to her to make it work, you don't, type works fine. And no, the search box in the start menu is no where close to the same thing. Now with the microphone arguments falling short we'll just attack it as pointless, so don't use it? There's features in any OS that someone will find "pointless", the key here is that it's pointless to them, not everyone.

 

With Cortana on the desktop and the phone it all syncs, you can set things on the desktop that show up on the phone.  With deeper integration with apps you can do multitasking through voice without being at the desktop or while you're working on something else. At that point it's a productivity tool as well. Again, if you don't want to use it then don't.

 

Just hope it works as good as shown.  X1 voice commands work flawlessly in the commercials demo videos but there has been a lot of complaints from users that it doesnt work well. 

 

Other than that, yea, dont want to use it...dont.  Mobile devices have a mic built in and they are pretty decent these days.  Desktops normally dont have a mic tho and people will complain because it is an extra purchase and useless without a mic.  Mics are not expensive and there are a lot of extra purchases when you buy a computer.  Some computers come with DVD burners drives Want to burn a DVD, buy blank discs.  Want to use Cortona on a desktop system, buy a mic.   Not going to please everyone and most users do not like a product 100 percent so they will find something wrong with it that they dont like.

[PGHammer]

It's not the desktop that's dead. Windows 10 clearly shows MS is listening to user feedback and improving the desktop with virtual desktops, Cortana integration and what have you.

 

No, what we will see (IMHO) is a push away from Win32 and towards universal applications. It would not surprise me if not too far from now even Office for the desktop will be turned into a universal application. 

 

Win32 apps will still be supported for some time to come, but they'll be relegated to legacy status.

And it's not like Win32 development has been all that robust - even going back to Vista; if anything, Win64 development has overtaken it - and there hasn't been all that much of that.

 

Part of my problem - as a keyboard+mouse user - has been, in fact, exactly that - the flatness of desktop-application development.

 

If you want new software and/or new applications, all too often, Win32 (or Win64, for that matter) is NOT where you go for it.

 

It's the Web, or mobile, or anywhere else than Win32/64.

 

Just hope it works as good as shown.  X1 voice commands work flawlessly in the commercials demo videos but there has been a lot of complaints from users that it doesnt work well. 

 

Other than that, yea, dont want to use it...dont.  Mobile devices have a mic built in and they are pretty decent these days.  Desktops normally dont have a mic tho and people will complain because it is an extra purchase and useless without a mic.  Mics are not expensive and there are a lot of extra purchases when you buy a computer.  Some computers come with DVD burners drives Want to burn a DVD, buy blank discs.  Want to use Cortona on a desktop system, buy a mic.   Not going to please everyone and most users do not like a product 100 percent so they will find something wrong with it that they dont like.

They don't?

 

I can't name an OEM desktop that didn't include SOME sort of basic mic (or webcam, or both in a lot of cases), except at the very low and refurbished end.  (By OEM, I mean any national or global OEM.  ASUS.  The Acer Group.  Dell.  HP.  Lenovo. Etc.)  External microphones suitable for most uses (for PCs) are MAYBE $10USD at Staples, RadioShack, or any of their competition.  OVC webcams are twice that.  (OVC is the Open Video Camera specification - Plug and Play for webcams.  It is not merely manufacturer-agnostic, it is OS-agnostic as well.  Plug such a webcam in to any hardware and it Just Plain Works - regardless of what OS the hardware is running.  Both Microsoft and Logitech are OVC signatories, and one hundred percent of the current webcams of BOTH companies - and any webcam from either company going back to 2010 - is OVC-compliant.  So are a rather large number of webcams from smaller OHVs - Adesso, Creative, etc.)  If you are going to use Skype, a webcam is almost a must-have - getting one also solves the voice-input problem for Cortana.  (That is, in fact, why more desktops include webcams - the same applies to portable PCs of any sort.  Cortana CAN use such a webcam - such as on my notebook - which dates back to Vista.)

[timbo_sf2]

There's a lot potential inside Cortana. Cortana will make human and computer interaction more natural, like set resolution, kill crash app, asking "why my mic isn't working properly", ask a keyboard shortcut, and some things that will requiring access to "Settings" app. Kind like Jarvis IMO

[Nimdock]

No.

[Melfster]

Isn't the problem Win32 and Win64 apps is that they don't scale particularly well. Metro Apps do. That is if you view them on  a 4K monitor Win32/Win64 apps appear as postage stamps or have visual artifacts when they get bigger. Metro Apps won't have this problem.

[Dot Matrix]

Cortana, Tea, Earl Grey, hot.

[Rickkins]

I saw the presentation yesterday. I cannot say that it made me overjoyed.

[Defcon]

In the entire show they never mentioned the desktop or legacy PC users once, it was the same old 'hybrid, mobile, touch is the future, Windows now works across ALL your devices'. You know what, my PC and my laptops are still devices.

 

Some people on Neowin forums have suggested that 'the desktop is done' and that its 'good enough', I couldn't disagree more.

[Dot Matrix]

In the entire show they never mentioned the desktop or legacy PC users once, it was the same old 'hybrid, mobile, touch is the future, Windows now works across ALL your devices'. You know what, my PC and my laptops are still devices.

 

Some people on Neowin forums have suggested that 'the desktop is done' and that its 'good enough', I couldn't disagree more.

Do they need to? Desktops aren't going to sell Windows 10.

[Ian W]

Look up interviews with MS/WinFS team after Vista and windows 7 and after WinFS was officially canceled. even on this very site.

Oh no, no. The burden of proof is on you. The closest I have found is a CNET interview with Bill Gates who stated that the company did virtually everything it set out to do during PDC 2003.

 

CNET: You really laid out the vision for where you guys were going at the Professional Developers Conference in LA back in 2003. From your perspective how much of that vision is in what's shipping in the product this week?

Bill Gates: We were able to achieve virtually everything we set out to do. We did not change the file system into a database-like approach; that turned out to be a little ahead of its time. But with the exception of that, now, the presentation richness, the security, the organization-type things that we have here, you know, it's very dramatic. And obviously we'll do more in the future, but this is the foundation that will make Windows computing far simpler.

It's rather telling that Bill Gates cited the failure of "WinFS" to materialize as his biggest disappointment. Your comments remind me of those by Ed Bott and others who, during the development of Windows 7, questioned the need for such a technology without even delving into some of its capabilities.

[NeoWind]

The desktop isn't even on the horizon of collapsing. OLED technology will likely reinvigorate how we used desktop in the coming years with much more thinner and lighter. 

[blerk]

Microsoft is moving to a new paradigm where the desktop is fully scalable from <8" to >84" with natural interaction and running apps with interfaces that automatically adapt to the screen size & device type, and this is only possible with the modern/universal app paradigm (as opposed to the old Win32), but the desktop per se is not going anywhere.

 

The old, outdated, limited model of the desktop is dying, and being replaced with a new model that takes advantage of all the hardware advances of the last few years. 

 

 

(I sound like a MS rep )

 

 

The desktop isn't even on the horizon of collapsing. OLED technology will likely reinvigorate how we used desktop in the coming years with much more thinner and lighter. 

 

.... thinner and lighter ... what?

[BajiRav]

What's with the attack on Cortana , I don't get it. Who has a mic on their desktop? Like you need to talk to her to make it work, you don't, type works fine. And no, the search box in the start menu is no where close to the same thing. Now with the microphone arguments falling short we'll just attack it as pointless, so don't use it? There's features in any OS that someone will find "pointless", the key here is that it's pointless to them, not everyone.

 

With Cortana on the desktop and the phone it all syncs, you can set things on the desktop that show up on the phone.  With deeper integration with apps you can do multitasking through voice without being at the desktop or while you're working on something else. At that point it's a productivity tool as well. Again, if you don't want to use it then don't.

I don't think I have a single PC/device in my home without a mic. We have a 2009 laptop, a 2011 desktop, a 2013 laptop, a 2014 tablet and some phones. Every single one of them have mics.

I guess hatersgonnahate.gif

 

In the entire show they never mentioned the desktop or legacy PC users once, it was the same old 'hybrid, mobile, touch is the future, Windows now works across ALL your devices'. You know what, my PC and my laptops are still devices.

 

Some people on Neowin forums have suggested that 'the desktop is done' and that its 'good enough', I couldn't disagree more.

They didn't mention "mobile users" as well. They just mentioned users.

<Obama>We are not "mobile" users or "desktop" users, we are "Windows" users.</Obama>

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

One thing that concerns me about the shift towards supporting touch systems (which I don't see as a wholly bad thing) is the move away from the context menu. I freaking love context menus. Almost everything should be doable with some mouse clicks.

[Dot Matrix]

One thing that concerns me about the shift towards supporting touch systems (which I don't see as a wholly bad thing) is the move away from the context menu. I freaking love context menus. Almost everything should be doable with some mouse clicks.

You're kidding right? Context menus are awful functionality. I'm glad MS agrees, and is moving away from them.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

That refers to the programs menu, not a context menu. A context menu provides you with many actions for a file or link or anything clicked on. You've never used a context menu to save an image from the web? Change what app opens a file with? 

[Dot Matrix]

That refers to the programs menu, not a context menu. A context menu provides you with many actions for a file or link or anything clicked on. You've never used a context menu to save an image from the web? Change what app opens a file with? 

Same idea, they're still nested flyouts.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Right clicking a picture to save it seems a bit more effective than tapping around. It also gives access to far more functions. On this page right now, I can save or download or bookmark or translate or clip pr print or view source or inspect element or check security or access several extensions in one click. On a file on my desktop, I can open, open with a different app, scan for viruses, run as admin, share it on the network, send it to my Kindle, etc etc. Kinda handy.

[Dot Matrix]

Right clicking a picture to save it seems a bit more effective than tapping around. It also gives access to far more functions. On this page right now, I can save or download or bookmark or translate or clip pr print or view source or inspect element or check security or access several extensions in one click. On a file on my desktop, I can open, open with a different app, scan for viruses, run as admin, share it on the network, send it to my Kindle, etc etc. Kinda handy.

Most of that functionality can be duplicated elsewhere, and already is in the Ribbon UI in Explorer.