NASA Commercial Crew (CCtCap) test milestones

[Draggendrop Veteran]

for image reference...

 

 

 

 

 

[anthdci]

that makes your realise how big the the merlin vac engine is.

[Draggendrop Veteran]

45 minutes ago, anthdci said:

that makes your realise how big the the merlin vac engine is.

Now that you mention it....that puppy is real large.

 

I am so complacent when watching the launch video's that I sometimes forget this. To familiar watching stage separation, S2 ignition, watching S2 begin to heat up, strengthening ring popping off and the familiar side camera view of a cherry red housing.

 

Without scale, the launch video is deceiving ...and I am guilty of that for sure.

[Draggendrop Veteran]

This is nice...

 

 

 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

 

 

 

 

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Bit more eye candy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

😎

[Blue-Vision]

Damn those are some poster shots! Woooo!  🍭

[RGClark]

 The trunk looks pretty big in these pics. There was some speculation that the trunk could hold extra fuel for, for example, manned lunar missions. Anyone know what the volume of the trunk is?

 

  Bob Clark

[Draggendrop Veteran]

The manned lunar missions for Dragon...flyby and landing has been flogged to death many times online.

 

In summary...why bother as it's a dead end now with ITS/BFS/Starship being capable in a few years.

 

Dragon was always capable of landing on other worlds...unmanned and landing only.

 

The trunk does nothing for liftoff fuel on the moon...and we need a Dragon with all available space filled with fuel to take off from the moon...Dragon is 3x's the weight of the LEM.

 

Man rating a capsule and FH as well as support structures and major equipment design for extra fuel is costly and involves a few years.....because unlike Watney...we should bring back everyone.

 

The new Starship test object will be doing hops in 2019....which is a few steps up from hamsters in a capsule.

 

[DocM]

5 hours ago, RGClark said:

 The trunk looks pretty big in these pics. There was some speculation that the trunk could hold extra fuel for, for example, manned lunar missions. Anyone know what the volume of the trunk is?

 

  Bob Clark

 

Question;

 

you have $X billion with which to develop an interplanetary vehicle. You have plans for bases and, eventually, colonies. This vehicle must carry cargo, crews, power and ISRU systems...everything.

 

Bonus round: early on, it will also serve as habitation, even during lunar missions. 

 

Choose one.

 

[Beittil]

Who wouldn't want to live in the first Martian skyscraper eh? 

[RGClark]

54 minutes ago, Draggendrop said:

The manned lunar missions for Dragon...flyby and landing has been flogged to death many times online.

In summary...why bother as it's a dead end now with ITS/BFS/Starship being capable in a few years.

Dragon was always capable of landing on other worlds...unmanned and landing only.

The trunk does nothing for liftoff fuel on the moon...and we need a Dragon with all available space filled with fuel to take off from the moon...Dragon is 3x's the weight of the LEM.

Man rating a capsule and FH as well as support structures and major equipment design for extra fuel is costly and involves a few years.....because unlike Watney...we should bring back everyone.

The new Starship test object will be doing hops in 2019....which is a few steps up from hamsters in a capsule.

 

 I agree with you that recent plans for manned lunar landers have been overly large. The total fueled mass for the Apollo lunar lander was 15 tons. For the Constellation program it was 45 tons. The large size for the lander necessitated a huge and expensive launch vehicle. The large costs therefore required resulted in the cancellation of the program. Even now the latest proposal for a lunar lander by Lockheed is for 62 tons(!) fueled mass:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_Lunar_Lander

 

 Here, I wanted to know the capability for doing just a circumlunar flight.  Elon had discussed doing that with the Falcon Heavy, but I'm not sure the FH will ever be man-rated, or should be.

 

 Doing a manned circumlunar flight with just the F9 and Dragon would be much cheaper, safer, and sooner.

 

 About the manned lunar lander possibility, the BFR is intended as a colony ship, capable of ca. 100 passengers. I'm thinking of small, low cost flights  intended to return us to the Moon. We can make a comparison to the Lockheed lander proposal to get an idea instead of the gross mass of a Dragon based lander. The Lockheed lander total mass oft 62 tons is less than 3 times its dry mass of 22 tons. Then a a Dragon lander at a 6 ton dry mass might only weigh less than 18 tons total mass, not much bigger than the Apollo lunar lander.

 

  Bob Clark

[RGClark]

59 minutes ago, DocM said:

 

Question;

 

you have $X billion with which to develop an interplanetary vehicle. You have plans for bases and, eventually, colonies. This vehicle must carry cargo, crews, power and ISRU systems...everything.

 

Bonus round: early on, it will also serve as habitation, even during lunar missions. 

 

Choose one.

 

 The circumlunar flight might be doable now with the extra fuel carried in the Dragon trunk and the F9 as the launcher. 

 The lunar lander flight might be doable now by a Falcon Heavy+F9+Dragon architecture. It's dependent on how much mass the FH can get to translunar injection(TLI). 

 

 Since the components are already existing, these would much cheaper to produce than the BFR. Also, since the flights would be much cheaper you could afford to do multiple unmanned test flights before doing a manned flight.

 

   Bob Clark

[Draggendrop Veteran]

Your question was directed to a Dragon trunk and hinted towards a manned lunar mission.

 

I believe I answered that and related it directly to SpaceX, the Dragon and the unmanned initial intentions.....not to any other programs, their costs ...or other vendors intentions...

 

7 hours ago, RGClark said:

 The trunk looks pretty big in these pics. There was some speculation that the trunk could hold extra fuel for, for example, manned lunar missions. Anyone know what the volume of the trunk is?

 

  Bob Clark

Beware when you mention cost.

 

If you send one person on a trip in a program...they foot the entire bill.

 

If you send many...cost is distributed.

 

F9 was designed man rated...FH is a collection of F9's..... Agency bureaucracy determines "man rating" for their needs...not SpaceX's

 

FH and Dragon can do a single flyby of the moon as is...as far as man rating...human consumables would be taken into consideration for # of passengers and duration of use.

 

This is a dead end for SpaceX and the Starship is taking over...and will be competitive with FH due to complete reuse.

 

There is no need for FH and a capsule when the soon to be Starship iteration will match it in cost...it is fully reusable...top up the tank.

[DocM]

Exactly - the plan is for Starship variants to completely replace F9/FH/Dragon. Maybe keep some for light missions to LOP-G and ISS, given the massive side of Starship (and its likely larger follow-on.)

[Draggendrop Veteran]

1 hour ago, DocM said:

Exactly - the plan is for Starship variants to completely replace F9/FH/Dragon. Maybe keep some for light missions to LOP-G and ISS, given the massive side of Starship (and its likely larger follow-on.)

The CC program and Commercial Resupply program will supply all the Dragons required for ISS, Bigelo, Axiom, gateways and any other flavor that actually produces a viable venture.

 

Lunar cargo will be initially dependent on the Starship...till the others catch up. Things will work out just fine.

[DocM]

Applicable to F9 Commercial Crew qualification

 

 

[DocM]

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

This has caused some confusion on line.

 

It is 7 flights..."actual flights" with S1 and S2 containing the approved COPV's.

 

It is 5 instances of "refueling process" for fueling certification. This also includes the SF's...therefore it is DM-1, abort test and DM-2 which will account for the five requested full process procedures.

 

This nickle and dime silliness though.....and now a partial government shutdown.....can't make this stuff up...

[DocM]

3 hours ago, Draggendrop said:

This nickle and dime silliness though.....

 

Yup. And SLS/Orion will fly with 3x the loss of crew probability but less official concern.  Go figure.

3 hours ago, Draggendrop said:

and now a partial government shutdown.....can't make this stuff up...

 

Thank you (the late) House Speaker Tip O'Neill, who first used the govt. shutdown tactic in 1980 👿

 

[Draggendrop Veteran]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This video was done through a car window...but does show the "lift" 

 

SpaceX - First Ever Crew Dragon Lift - DM-1 01-03-2019

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USLaunchReport

Published on Jan 3, 2019

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Speed has been doubled.Sorry for picture quality, 10 miles thru haze at sunset. Very Excited to see Crew Dragon attached to Falcon 9. The lift was done for a fit test.

video is 4:23 min.

 

 

 

[Blue-Vision]

The image "Crew Dragon + Falcon 9 vertical on pad 39A" by Emre Kelly has to be the nicest thing I've seen in a long, long time @Draggendrop.  Thanks bud.

 

Can't wait to see it launch.

[DocM]

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/22/18193326/nasa-commercial-crew-astronaut-replacement-boeing-cst-100-starliner-eric-boe-mike-fincke

 

NASA is replacing one of the astronauts assigned to fly on the first crewed test launch of the CST-100 Starliner, a capsule being developed by Boeing to take passengers to the International Space Station. NASA announced today that astronaut Eric Boe will no longer be flying on the mission due to unspecified medical reasons. Instead, NASA astronaut E. Michael "Mike"  Fincke will take Boes place.

[DocM]

Flight Readiness Rreview  says GO!!

 

NASA gives go-ahead for SpaceX commercial crew test flight

WASHINGTON  NASA managers have given their approval for SpaceX to proceed with an uncrewed test flight of its Crew Dragon spacecraft on March 2.

At the conclusion of a day-long flight readiness review at the Kennedy Space Center Feb. 22, NASA announced that it approved plans for SpaceX to fly a mission designated Demo-1, featuring its Crew Dragon spacecraft but without astronauts on board, to the International Space Station. The review featured more than 100 people from NASA and SpaceX, examining the readiness of both the spacecraft and the station to support the mission.

The current schedule calls for a launch at 2:48 a.m. Eastern March 2, in an instantaneous launch window. The Falcon 9, lifting off from Launch Complex 39A at the Kennedy Space Center, will put the Crew Dragon into orbit. The spacecraft is scheduled to dock with the ISS one day later and remain there until March 8, when it will undock and splash down several hours later in the Atlantic Ocean.
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[DocM]