Zinomian Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Spoken like a "good little citizen"TM Authority is to be questioned if it is being used to stifle or censor or destroy. As for the rest of your post - "take your beating and then sue" ?? Seriously that's your plan if this happens ? Unbelievable. good little citizen? absolutely, whats wrong with following rules? anarchy much? I do agree that authority and rules/laws must be reviewed and questioned if they are failing to do what it was supposed to do, or if a certain group is abusing their powers, HOWEVER, it all needs to be done in its due time. Timing is EVERYTHING!!!! Questioning authority when being arrested is NOT the time to do so....later on, with good lawyer if you felt your rights were violated and taking action WOULD BE!!! simply to question authority because is the "cool" thing to do is not the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinomian Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 fair enough, for the record, I still believe, further training would benefit not only the US Police, but Police around the world, however, as a law abiding citizen, I do understand the 'behave like a law abiding citizen and you have nothing to worry about' part of your post Training can never be enough....better trained police officer should be something we should all want and hope we get...which i totally agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraith808 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 At the 0:31 mark it appears - rather clearly to me - that the body is laying face down. As I do not see it/him rolling over at any point after the shots...I can only surmise that they shot him in the back. Am I missing something...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaP Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The problem with most of these situations, you are looking at it with an outside perspective after the event has happened. People saying don't attack cops are looking it from the outside too. Most of those homesless guys are mentally sick. Being mentally sick in a civilized society should not be a death penalty sentence. The police officers in NA are not well trained enough to deal with mentally sick people imo. Since when do we need to question authority at every step? Follow the rules...... Wait what? Are you actually serious? Questionning authority at every step is what democracy is all about. ctebah 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Think there needs to be a ban, or limit, on posting these kind of stories in Neowin. Same old argument/discussion each time. Ive posted a few topics like this, and sorry I did. +JHBrown 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argi Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Think there needs to be a ban, or limit, on posting these kind of stories in Neowin. Same old argument/discussion each time. Ive posted a few topics like this, and sorry I did. Agreed. Always the same two people making the same flawed arguments every time while showing no compassion what-so-ever to fellow human beings. +JHBrown 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Som Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well the woman they barely touched, appropriate response, but the guy they where on top of that they shot seems a bit excessive, still though do we know the back story like why where they called there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisan Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 It is?! You must've been watching another video then??? From the video the black cop first dropped his baton which the woman picked up, then he dropped his own gun behind him, presumably because he hadn't used his holster clip, he noticed his gun wasn't in it's holster and starts shouting "He has my gun!" believing the suspect had it so the rest of them just unloaded their clips into him. Gross stupidity and incompetence leaving yet another unarmed man dead If you watch the video the very first thing you see is man flailing about and moving in the direction of the cops, I would say that's him attacking the cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argi Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 6 cops can subdue an unarmed man without resorted to shooting. The rest of the civilized world can manage that quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 3, 2015 MVC Share Posted March 3, 2015 <snipped for brevity> On the street, it isn't the place for you to state what should and should not happen, it is happening, it is happening to you, and it is happening at a very fast pace. It is not your place to argue with the officer at the time, you are not the judge, jury, or executioner either (if that is the case I am robbing a bank, and it is legal for me to do so, nothing the cops say or any rules apply to me, so f the police --- yes there is a bit of sarcasm in that to show how it could go in the reverse mindset). They are there to uphold the law, if they are there or questioning you it is because they believe that you aren't doing something right. If you believe they are in the wrong, don't start an argument there, take your licks then take them to court (that is what the court system is for, that is when you get to face a judge for your actions, then get sentenced or are let free). As I said earlier, I understand the danger of the job that police have. They should be capable of protecting themselves, but they should, and must, also be capable of ensuring they don't use severe force unless there are no other options. My point goes beyond this case... It is a recognition that we fundamentally need to reevaluate how we train and equip police. Possibly what we have is the best we can do, but I am not convinced this is the case. The major problem with the "unlimited police power" whenever anyone isn't "fully complying" with police effectively leaves citizens without any real protection from bad police officers. If a police officer approaches a person and informs them they will be raped shortly by this officer. In your view, this person should submit to the abuse and their sole remedy is to hope they will be able to convince the peers of this officer they were/are being victimized by this officer. An extreme example, but rape by police officers while on duty isn't unheard of. Failing to comply with this officer would create a legitimate reason for this police officer to use whatever force, without limits, in your view to force compliance. If we have no protection against abuse by police then we have, effectively, no protection, or rights, at all. Your extreme, but common, view is even more concerning with the reality that almost anyone can setup a police force of their own in various parts of the US and run around "enforcing the law". Maybe I should setup my own force... Approach you and order you to do something nonsensical and immediately beat you into submission upon your failure to give me an entertainment show? theyarecomingforyou and Romero 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahoospa Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Most people will die from just one bullet, let alone getting shot by a firing squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fintechfooty Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 It's pretty obvious that poor training is the cause. Even if someone is grabbing your gun there are procedures an officer must follow. I'm sure it goes "If the Officers feels his life is being threatened he may use any type of force to get to safety". There are numerous officers at the scene of the crime, all of which could have carried a taser and prevented this fiasco. How safer being an officer of the law can you get? I would understand if there was one officer or maybe two because US males have huge bone density! I'm not saying they're fat but just big. For the police though, they will have a good argument case and win. Not saying that's right or wrong but that's how the story goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctebah Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 It's pretty obvious that poor training is the cause. Even if someone is grabbing your gun there are procedures an officer must follow. I'm sure it goes "If the Officers feels his life is being threatened he may use any type of force to get to safety". There are numerous officers at the scene of the crime, all of which could have carried a taser and prevented this fiasco. How safer being an officer of the law can you get? I would understand if there was one officer or maybe two because US males have huge bone density! I'm not saying they're fat but just big. For the police though, they will have a good argument case and win. Not saying that's right or wrong but that's how the story goes! I agree, with that many police officers there shouldn't have been a death. Whatever happened to Pepper Spray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisan Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Most people will die from just one bullet, let alone getting shot by a firing squad. Sorry but no.........if its a large enough caliber in a vital enough area, yes....but good luck hitting a vital area in meaningful time when under pressure, if you even have a gun large enough to do crap to the target. It's been proven time and time again a single bullet, especially from the guns many police STILL carry, is not enough to even slow down some of the people they are forced to use them on, let alone kill them.....that's even if that one bullet hits the target to begin with. I agree, with that many police officers there shouldn't have been a death. Whatever happened to Pepper Spray? Pepper spray is great and all, until you remember it tends to affect the area you spray it in, not just the target you want to hit with it. So when you have a bunch of cops surrounding a target, pepper spray is probably the worst of your options, plus it isn't very effective against some people (especially if they are on drugs at the time), much like the taser they used which didn't do enough to subdue the target. I would like to see how some of the people on this forum handle a situation where they have already tried at least one non-lethal method for subduing a target, it didn't work, and the target potentially has a deadly weapon. Would you move onto the next non-lethal method knowing he may have a weapon and the last method didn't help? What happens when that second method doesn't work either....the next non-lethal option? How many non-lethal options would you be willing to go through when you have a hostile target that may have a deadly weapon? I personally wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger to protect myself or anyone else from a hostile target trying to injure them (and this is coming from someone who doesn't own a gun but is not afraid to use one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetw0lf Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Reverend Al to the rescue. He will sort things out properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinggus Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 all over a tent. a man is dead all over a tent.... 6-7 officers against one man? no way... murder outright The guy reached for an officers weapon, shows deadly intent, which you are then allowed to use deadly force. I agree, with that many police officers there shouldn't have been a death. Whatever happened to Pepper Spray? Most law enforcement agencies that I know of only train you on either pepper spray or taser. Officers can't continue going through the motions to try and not get to deadly force. It's either the person is subdued via taser/pepper spray or deadly force if deadly intent is present. People act like officers want to kill people, I'm sure all officers would rather get to retirement without having to put someone down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctebah Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The guy reached for an officers weapon, shows deadly intent, which you are then allowed to use deadly force. Most law enforcement agencies that I know of only train you on either pepper spray or taser. Officers can't continue going through the motions to try and not get to deadly force. It's either the person is subdued via taser/pepper spray or deadly force if deadly intent is present. People act like officers want to kill people, I'm sure all officers would rather get to retirement without having to put someone down. When there are 6 police officers to one person, there should NEVER be a gun pulled. If the 6 cops can't subdue one person, they should all be fired and capable people hired. No matter how you look at it, it makes the officers look like a bunch of incompetent morons. +JHBrown and theyarecomingforyou 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JHBrown Subscriber¹ Posted March 3, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted March 3, 2015 Reverend Al to the rescue. He will sort things out properly.I don't think we should post things like this here. It really is not related to the story. There are quite a few members here who are African-American that might be offended (No, I am not African American). Sometimes we need a little training on empathy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The guy reached for an officers weapon, shows deadly intent, which you are then allowed to use deadly force. Most law enforcement agencies that I know of only train you on either pepper spray or taser. Officers can't continue going through the motions to try and not get to deadly force. It's either the person is subdued via taser/pepper spray or deadly force if deadly intent is present. People act like officers want to kill people, I'm sure all officers would rather get to retirement without having to put someone down. With police brutality, being what it has been. my guess is, this is all meant to federalize the police around the nation. This is purely just simple speculation of course but seems to be somewhat reasonable. problem, reaction, solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JHBrown Subscriber¹ Posted March 3, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted March 3, 2015 This whole thing is quite complicated. As a military man, I'm all for Cops protecting themselves and going home to their families. However, it's mind boggling that the number of Cops on the scene couldn't control one subject. Why did it have to escalate to a shooting? Anyhow, same old debate, same old answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetw0lf Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't think we should post things like this here. It really is not related to the story. There are quite a few members here who are African-American that might be offended (No, I am not African American). Sometimes we need a little training on empathy here. Interesting your take on my comment. I meant it in a positive way and you took it the opposite way. Love Al or hate him he definitely get's people thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted March 3, 2015 Veteran Share Posted March 3, 2015 The major problem with the "unlimited police power" whenever anyone isn't "fully complying" with police effectively leaves citizens without any real protection from bad police officers. If a police officer approaches a person and informs them they will be raped shortly by this officer. In your view, this person should submit to the abuse and their sole remedy is to hope they will be able to convince the peers of this officer they were/are being victimized by this officer. An extreme example, but rape by police officers while on duty isn't unheard of. Failing to comply with this officer would create a legitimate reason for this police officer to use whatever force, without limits, in your view to force compliance. If we have no protection against abuse by police then we have, effectively, no protection, or rights, at all. Your extreme, but common, view is even more concerning with the reality that almost anyone can setup a police force of their own in various parts of the US and run around "enforcing the law". Maybe I should setup my own force... Approach you and order you to do something nonsensical and immediately beat you into submission upon your failure to give me an entertainment show? The way I see it, and it could be wrong, is that we have given them the power to do their jobs. In any situation we can be victimized, it happens in the workplace, it happens on the streets, it happens in our homes, it happens when in front of a law enforcement officer. You can't control every situation. Again, I go back to the courts is where you handle these matters...that is what we have as a civilized society to be able to get justice to what has happened to us. Officers are sworn in to uphold the law and to enforce it, not to abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 When there are 6 police officers to one person, there should NEVER be a gun pulled. If the 6 cops can't subdue one person, they should all be fired and capable people hired. No matter how you look at it, it makes the officers look like a bunch of incompetent morons. This. The police mishandled the situation from start to finish. It looked like a slapstick comedy, only with tragic consequences. This is what happens when your have confrontational policing and a system in which officers rarely face any criminal charges, where officers are effectively above the law. At the end of the day you don't see videos like this emerging from other developed nations. It's sad that so many people are defending the officers. The Evil Overlord and Argi 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctebah Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This. The police mishandled the situation from start to finish. It looked like a slapstick comedy, only with tragic consequences. This is what happens when your have confrontational policing and a system in which officers rarely face any criminal charges, where officers are effectively above the law. At the end of the day you don't see videos like this emerging from other developed nations. It's sad that so many people are defending the officers. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam14160 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 What I find sad is all of you who had to run to the page showing the situation. . .I bet those that went to that page are those who when in heavy traffice have to slow way down to see if someone is laid out dead on the street . . . oh darnm, I forgot this is a human interest situation . . .my bad. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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