win8.1 Laptop w/ 4k display + external 30" monitor = total disaster? Can I fix this?

[Boz]

So I'm trying to setup Windows 8.1 Pro on this new Dell Precision M3800 with 4k display. I don't have as many issues when I run laptop display alone but when I connected my secondary 30" 2560x1600 display I have absolutely no way to run that display at it's native 2560x1600 resolution. 

 

Windows 8.1 seems to be applying resolution scaling from the main laptop's display to the secondary 30" one. 

 

Needless to say it looks ridiculous. I'm running 1280x800 on 30" as hDpi of 2560x1600 which is absolutely not what I want. 

 

I run OSX on this machine and 30" screen and OSX works flawlessly. Has hdpi on the laptop display and uses native resolution on the 30". 

 

Am I missing something here or is Windows a total and utter trainwreck with scaling and multiple monitor support?

 

Any advice appreciated.

[chrisj1968]

I'm guessing but the external port has ((probably)) different specifications than the 4k already built in

[Boz]

I'm guessing but the external port has ((probably)) different specifications than the 4k already built in

 

The port is definitely not an issue here because I run OSX on the exact same setup and it works just fine. 4k display runs 1920x1080 at hdpi (meaning it's "retina") and the 30" display runs at it's native resolution.

 

This is purely a Windows problem. 

 

I was wondering if I missed something in settings but I've been looking online and it seems that Windows is a trainwreck on 4k displays and multi monitor setups.

[chrisj1968]

could the port have lesser limitations that your display has? like 2560x1600 and the port only can do 1280x800?

 

@ OP, if I'm completely off base and clueless as to what you mean, please forgive me.

[goretsky Supervisor]

Hello,

 

Make sure you are either using a HDMI 1.3 (or newer) spec'ed cable or a MiniDP to DisplayPort to connect to the external 30" monitor without any kind of adapter.  You might also want to check in Dell's support forum to see what they say.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

[XorpiZ]

The scaling in Windows 8.1 is ridiculous. From what I can tell there is no way to apply different scalings to different monitors. It's all or nothing.

[Aokromes]

So I'm trying to setup Windows 8.1 Pro on this new Dell Precision M3800 with 4k display. I don't have as many issues when I run laptop display alone but when I connected my secondary 30" 2560x1600 display I have absolutely no way to run that display at it's native 2560x1600 resolution. 

 

Windows 8.1 seems to be applying resolution scaling from the main laptop's display to the secondary 30" one. 

 

Needless to say it looks ridiculous. I'm running 1280x800 on 30" as hDpi of 2560x1600 which is absolutely not what I want. 

 

I run OSX on this machine and 30" screen and OSX works flawlessly. Has hdpi on the laptop display and uses native resolution on the 30". 

 

Am I missing something here or is Windows a total and utter trainwreck with scaling and multiple monitor support?

 

Any advice appreciated.

Maybe  you wanna give a look to the end of this thread: https://communities.intel.com/thread/55105

[Boz]

Hello,

 

Make sure you are either using a HDMI 1.3 (or newer) spec'ed cable or a MiniDP to DisplayPort to connect to the external 30" monitor without any kind of adapter.  You might also want to check in Dell's support forum to see what they say.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

I have no problems with the display working at all.. resolution scaling is the problem here when both displays are turned on in Windows. When I disable the laptop's display and make the 30" display as primary the resolution looks just fine. 

 

The more I read about this online the more I see that it's just Windows that is absolute garbage. Who at Microsoft thought that this type of resolution scaling would be something that's acceptable? It's bizarre. 

 

I run OS X on this Windows laptop and the thing works better than for the OS that laptop is actually made for.. It's ridiculous.

 

The only way I got somewhat acceptable scaling on both displays was to set the Make everything Larger/Smaller option in display properties to 100% at which point 30" display works somewhat in it's own resolution but except it really doesn't because the text is super anti-aliased as Windows is trying to grab to render the display in matching resolution to the 4k laptop display and then scales back down the 30" display's picture. The whole thing is a joke.

 

Not to mention that some apps get HUGE caption bars  and fonts while others don't.. despite turning off resolution scaling under Compatibility tab of application's executable. 

 

It really is a train wreck.

The scaling in Windows 8.1 is ridiculous. From what I can tell there is no way to apply different scalings to different monitors. It's all or nothing.

 

The only option they made available is the Make Things Larger/Smaller or something like that under display properties.. but that applies on both monitors again.

 

If it was sad it would hilarious how bad this is implemented. With more and more UHD/4k displays out there on laptops and computers how in the hell is Microsoft going to solve this?  Even damn Linux (Ubuntu) works great.  It's embarrassing.

[BajiRav]

Have you tried unchecking the "Let me choose one scaling level for all my displays" under Display settings? I have never used it but seems like something you want.

[Odom Member]

It is known that the scaling is a problem across multiple monitors when one of them has a very high resolution. You do not seem to be able to set different DPI settings for each individual monitor. Even with windows 8.1.

 

Maybe someone that has been testing Windows 10 can provide some feedback on whether or not this issue has been resolved in the next version.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

The scaling in Windows 8.1 is ridiculous. From what I can tell there is no way to apply different scalings to different monitors. It's all or nothing.

It tries to keep everything the same physical size, but I'm pretty sure you can change the setting if it's getting the monitor details wrong.

Edit: Also it relies on the application to co-operate, otherwise it upscales/downscales the window for the "non-native" monitor.

[Brainiac10]

It seems that in windows 10 you will finally be able to set different DPI for each monitor:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/30z34c/separate_dpi_scaling_now_works_properly_for_me/

[+Fahim S. MVC]

In fairness, OS X doesn't allow windows which span the boundary between monitors.  Windows get cut off at the boundary.

 

I guess drawing the window on two screens with a different DPI at the same time, causes complexity in drawing.

 

I don't know.. just theorising..

 

Modern applications (i.e. built on WinRT APIs) go some way towards fixing the element scale issues faced in 'legacy' applications.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

perhaps im reading this wrong, but maybe it's not Windows that's the problem. maybe it's that the display adapter (video card) cant handle the output of both 2560x1600 AND 3840x2160.

[Aokromes]

I told him already to look at https://communities.intel.com/thread/55105 it looks intel fixed the driver on january

[Boz]

In fairness, OS X doesn't allow windows which span the boundary between monitors.  Windows get cut off at the boundary.

 

I guess drawing the window on two screens with a different DPI at the same time, causes complexity in drawing.

 

I don't know.. just theorising..

 

Modern applications (i.e. built on WinRT APIs) go some way towards fixing the element scale issues faced in 'legacy' applications.

 

This is true, but how often you have windows split up between two monitors? That seems to have been a compromise with Apple that I'm perfectly fine with. This Windows 8.1 thing with resolution scaling got me to return the 4k laptop and wait on getting a new laptop when this issue is resolved. Hopefully with Win 10.

[Boz]

Have you tried unchecking the "Let me choose one scaling level for all my displays" under Display settings? I have never used it but seems like something you want.

 

Yep.. it causes wonky results at best.. doesn't work.. the best I got is to keep scaling at 100% for both displays after setting the 1920x1080 hdpi resolution on the laptop and I got the 2560x1600 looking resolution on the 30" display however it's a mess. While a lot of apps now use correct resolution alot of other apps don't and look HUGE. And you can't even solve it if you check "disable hdpi scaling" in the launch parameters on the executable. Not to mention that with this approach I also have heavy blurring on the text because Windows writes the high resolution to the bitmap type of frame and rescales it back down to the resolution of the display.

 

The whole solution is rindoculous.

It tries to keep everything the same physical size, but I'm pretty sure you can change the setting if it's getting the monitor details wrong.

Edit: Also it relies on the application to co-operate, otherwise it upscales/downscales the window for the "non-native" monitor.

 

The thing is that Windows is reading my monitor specs perfectly fine. Your edit is actually the cause.. it's upscaling/downscaling and doing something funky when it shouldn't be doing it all .. resolution scaling should be done on per display basis not across all displays based on the highest resolution display. 

 

The design of it seems to be completely flawed.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

Boz - did my post earlier make sense? is that causing the issue?

 

you also have to remember that 8.1 is out at a time when very very very few people have UHD displays... let alone trying to span UHD plus another monitor. I doubt it was MS's priority to worry about this 'issue' at the time.

 

have you looked into Windows 10 TP? trying that instead of 8.1?

[Sikh]

This is true, but how often you have windows split up between two monitors? That seems to have been a compromise with Apple that I'm perfectly fine with. This Windows 8.1 thing with resolution scaling got me to return the 4k laptop and wait on getting a new laptop when this issue is resolved. Hopefully with Win 10.

 

This is not truly because if you disable "independent spaces" you can span a window between all the displays and it doesnt get cut off. Its how some of our production workstations are set up because legacy applications aren't modular so they need to stretch across 2 or 3 displays so the user has their entire workspace they need in the app.

 

Windows scaling SUCKS and is not fixed in windows 10 completely. Setting individual DPI is helping, but overall Microsoft is slow at adopting / supporting HiDPI resolutions. Its running how even LINUX has done a bette job and people bitch that "windows is ahead blah blah blah".

Took them this long to add "Mission Control / Spaces" into Windows.........

[Boz]

Boz - did my post earlier make sense? is that causing the issue?

 

you also have to remember that 8.1 is out at a time when very very very few people have UHD displays... let alone trying to span UHD plus another monitor. I doubt it was MS's priority to worry about this 'issue' at the time.

 

have you looked into Windows 10 TP? trying that instead of 8.1?

 

Jason, I have no way of knowing that because most laptops today are Optimus based, including this one. This means that Nvidia graphics and everything goes basically through IGPU for any type of rendering. This might be an issue with scaling too but there's nothing you can do about it. I've seen everyone else having these exact same problems so I think it's a flaw in how Windows does scaling across displays. 

 

As far your note about when 8.1 came out.. I remember 15-20 years ago I used Windows and back then they seemed to have figured out future trends and offered support in Windows even though it wasn't popular. I don't buy the whole Windows 8.1 is old so no proper scaling. OSX came out before Windows 8.1 yet they have implemented per display scaling in subsequent releases where it just works. Even Ubuntu does a better job, so the "Windows 8.1 is old so it they didn't take in consideration the UHD displays" doesn't fly IMHO. 

 

They sure thought about scaling and UHD displays when they designed Metro. I just think they did a bad job and design around this scaling thing. 

 

 

The unfortunate part is that the worst possible things in the PC world today are Nvidia/Intel Optimus garbage that doesn't even work right on Windows little less on other OSs (thanks to the Intel/Nvidia monopoly) and Windows 8.x afterthoughts and designs. The unfortunate part is for all of us as consumers. We are getting half-assed GPUs on mobile devices that don't run at full performance as they should because essentially they run through IGPU for everything and just use the Nvidia part as a co-processor and not the full dedicated GPU (again Apple's design is far superior because it uses MUX-ed connnection where each GPU is connected individually to the display instead of Muxless like Optimus where Nvidia GPU is funneled through IGPU at all times to the display).

 

As consumer I'm pretty freakin' ###### at the whole situation. 

 

Try 4k display on Windows and you'll see what I mean.. especially on a laptop. It's a disaster. From Optimus performance issues (running Intel HD 4600 at best on Haswell and despite the options in Nvidia settings to turn on Nvidia GPU for main rendering (still doesn't work right) ) to scaling per app issues in Windows you don't know what's worse.

 

/rant

[n_K]

Hello,

 

Make sure you are either using a HDMI 1.3 (or newer) spec'ed cable or a MiniDP to DisplayPort to connect to the external 30" monitor without any kind of adapter.  You might also want to check in Dell's support forum to see what they say.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

No, please, not more misinformation regarding cables... A normal HDMI cable and a '1.3 HDMI' cable are no different, at both ends they have HDMI connectors and in-between them they have wires...

[Boz]

Anyways.. thanks everyone for this conversation.. I'm returning the laptop and sticking with my trusty and beefy ASUS G750JX with dedicated 770M at 1920x1080.. that works flawlessly.. until this issue is resolved with Windows and 4k.

[Psion7]

Microsoft has been promosing to fix DPI scaling since Vista and yet still haven't been able to deliver. Windows 10 doesn't even fix things. It is a nightmare on HiDPI machines.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

...

The thing is that Windows is reading my monitor specs perfectly fine. Your edit is actually the cause.. it's upscaling/downscaling and doing something funky when it shouldn't be doing it all .. resolution scaling should be done on per display basis not across all displays based on the highest resolution display. 

 

The design of it seems to be completely flawed.

It is done differently based on each display, it's up to applications to scale themselves properly though.

[Boz]

It is done differently based on each display, it's up to applications to scale themselves properly though.

 

Understood, but I feel it's really a bad design.. Apple solved that much more elegantly. Non retina applications might still be scaled but the fonts and images might not look as sharp (plus their UI controls in the SDK for development have been thought through properly as well so if you use native Cocoa controls it will always render correctly when Apple updates stuff on an OS level).. the scaling however is still on point and doesn't feel out of place so it's puzzling that a software company like Microsoft couldn't find a better solution.