[OFFICIAL] Windows 10 Insider Program

[NeoWind]

Windows Technical Preview.

 

This is a discussion thread for that topic, I am voicing a legitimate concern, if you don't like it then I suggest you use the ignore feature, name calling, trolling, flame baiting, this seems to be the typical response and I am not guilty of any of it, I'm here to discuss windows 10 and its eventual failure/success.

 

Which metro apps are just as powerful and have matched, feature for feature, functionality for functionality, with modern desktop software?

You can't be so naive that expect metro app to be as powerful as the legacy app in such short amount of time which has improved for a very long time. Metro app might not have all the functionality compared to the desktop app but it provide a new way of interacting with it such as animation and more lively content. Missing feature will be slowly implement down the road. 

[Guest]

There should be a Windows UI thread to put all this crap there. This thread has become a pile of stinking mess lately and is rather useless for those looking for new info.

[Dot Matrix]

Not entirely true. You still can access to the old control panel and pin it to the task bar which isn't possible in previous version of windows. 

For now. It's being decommissioned though. Still people need to recognize that Windows is Metro. It's being rebuilt using the new properties of the MDL. Don't like that? Oh well. Switch to Android?

[vcfan]

digging through the api (winrt), i noticed support for some new stuff

custom hardware devices

media casting devices

lights/lamps

serial ports

midi devices

battery reports/stats

audio devices input/output

call control(custom dialers?)

adaptive streaming

[George P Global Moderator]

There should be a Windows UI thread to put all this crap there. This thread has become a pile of stinking mess lately and is rather useless for those looking for new info.

I agree, this thread is way too long as it is, I'm thinking it's time to close it and start a new thread once we get a new build out be it a leaked one or the one released by MS on the 21st. Till then everyone try to stay on topic and quit trying to start arguments by calling others out by name.

[George P Global Moderator]

digging through the api (winrt), i noticed support for some new stuff

custom hardware devices

media casting devices

lights/lamps

serial ports

midi devices

battery reports/stats

audio devices input/output

call control(custom dialers?)

adaptive streaming

It'll be very interesting to see just how much they can add to winrt by the time this hits RTM. One of the issues with apps is that the lack of API support for specific things holds the apps back. They need to be working double time to get winrt to feature parity with win32.

[Ian S.]

I agree, this thread is way too long as it is, I'm thinking it's time to close it and start a new thread once we get a new build out be it a leaked one or the one released by MS on the 21st. Till then everyone try to stay on topic and quit trying to start arguments by calling others out by name.

I have created a thread for the argument.

 

Members: you can post here:

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1241422-the-great-modern-ui-debate-thread/?p=596699022

[DeadEndAccount]

digging through the api (winrt), i noticed support for some new stuff

custom hardware devices

media casting devices

lights/lamps

serial ports

midi devices

battery reports/stats

audio devices input/output

call control(custom dialers?)

adaptive streaming

 

Not surprising - WInRT is being geared up as a replacement for win32 so eventually you'll see win32/win64 become an removable feature like how you can uninstall win32 on Windows Server. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future we'll see Win32 completely removed from Windows RT in favour of a pure WinRT environment. 

[Studio384]

Not surprising - WInRT is being geared up as a replacement for win32 so eventually you'll see win32/win64 become an removable feature like how you can uninstall win32 on Windows Server. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future we'll see Win32 completely removed from Windows RT in favour of a pure WinRT environment. 

I would actualy expect that to happen with Windows 10 already. There is no need for the Win32 APIs on Windows RT anymore now Office is ported to WinRT and all other Desktop tools are as well (like calculator, etc).

[BajiRav]

Not surprising - WInRT is being geared up as a replacement for win32 so eventually you'll see win32/win64 become an removable feature like how you can uninstall win32 on Windows Server. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future we'll see Win32 completely removed from Windows RT in favour of a pure WinRT environment.

doesn't WinRT sit on top of Win32 though?

[timbo_sf2]

WinRT 1.0 maybe, because apps suddenly quit when I kill explorer.exe, and also microsoft loves leave everything half-baked, no wonder why right after Windows 8 release, Sinofsky geared Windows 10 development process (suspended because development of 8.1). Paul Thurrott already said no, but I read another article contracy about that. Heck, it is even possible to call Win32 APIs from WinRT

Perhaps Order_66 posts' similar to DOS 4.0 disaster, when MSFT introduce new shell?

[George P Global Moderator]

MS makes it possible to call win32 from inside metro to help with porting legacy apps. They know you can't just port year old apps to want right away so for now it's a halfway measure, they're also not stopping with WPF. I think going forward you'll see the ability to call/use winrt through WPF apps on the desktop, something developers are asking for.

[Guest]

I would actualy expect that to happen with Windows 10 already. There is no need for the Win32 APIs on Windows RT anymore now Office is ported to WinRT and all other Desktop tools are as well (like calculator, etc).

 

Not gonna happen. WinRT is built on top of Win32.

[PGHammer]

WinRT 1.0 maybe, because apps suddenly quit when I kill explorer.exe, and also microsoft loves leave everything half-baked, no wonder why right after Windows 8 release, Sinofsky geared Windows 10 development process (suspended because development of 8.1). Paul Thurrott already said no, but I read another article contracy about that. Heck, it is even possible to call Win32 APIs from WinRT

Perhaps Order_66 posts' similar to DOS 4.0 disaster, when MSFT introduce new shell?

Actually, no - Microsoft does NOT like to have a half-baked API.  However, developers (and users) want to keep that legacy base around, because they are used to it being there.  How much cruft was in the original Start menu, because it had not had a cleanout in eighteen years?  The Start menu had become like a wallet after a few years - chockablock full of crud and cruft; one thing that two-OS gap between the Start menu's canning and the replacement (with mini-Start) did was enable a complete clean-out of the cruft and crud.

 

That's the REAL issue with not just new features, but improvement and advancement of existing features - it may not be doable without a complete reset.  (Linux has had to deal with the same thing in terms of desktop environments - GNOME and KDE come to mind.)  But will your userbase let you?

[PGHammer]

digging through the api (winrt), i noticed support for some new stuff

custom hardware devices

media casting devices

lights/lamps

serial ports

midi devices

battery reports/stats

audio devices input/output

call control(custom dialers?)

adaptive streaming

And support for most of it (if not all of it) is coming (or there already) in the Technical Preview (some of it has been present since prior to 9870 - 9901 exposed addition of a few more such features); other features are improvements due to additions to Device Manager itself going back to Windows 8 (the audio I/O is the biggest example).  Device Manager - starting with Windows 8 (and even Server 2012) is MUCH finer-grained at picking up new devices than previous versions of Windows - desktop or server.  The problem that Windows has is that - until the Technical Preview - adjustability didn't match up with the detection.  9901 is a major step toward fixing that - and the next major build will be another step in the same direction.

[BajiRav]

digging through the api (winrt), i noticed support for some new stuff

custom hardware devices

media casting devices

lights/lamps

serial ports

midi devices

battery reports/stats

audio devices input/output

call control(custom dialers?)

adaptive streaming

Windows IoT edition?

[PGHammer]

Windows IoT edition?

Nope - most of those features are becoming commonplace in all hardware (the MIDI/audio features already are); it's about greater control and adjustability of those features on a user-specific basis.

 

It's basically about making the User Experience more personal - and not only is it NOT a bad thing, it has been a cornerstone of Windows in particular nearly from the beginning.

[Noir Angel]

Why are you (in particular) insisting on "do not advance"?

 

Primarily because I'm not stupid enough to think that new = advanced. WMP works just fine as it is, butchering it's functionality and turning it into another watered down piece of metro crap would not be an advancement.

[onewarmslime]

QuoteFor now. It's being decommissioned though. Still people need to recognize that Windows is Metro. It's being rebuilt using the new properties of the MDL. Don't like that? Oh well. Switch to Android?

 

Huh? Is Android a desktop OS? I think not...

I suppose you meant "switch to mac", in that case, well, we have other alternatives, we can stick to older versions of windows like XP, Vista and 7... not everyone needs to have the latest piece of software all the time... Windows 8 (with some tweaks and with 8.1 update 1 installed) works great for me but I really really miss the start menu.

[Knife Party]

For now. It's being decommissioned though. Still people need to recognize that Windows is Metro. It's being rebuilt using the new properties of the MDL. Don't like that? Oh well. Switch to Android?

i'm confused. what does Android have to do with Windows 10 TP? So you're saying users who don't all agree that windows is metro now, should switch to android? One is a mobile OS and the other is a desktop OS.    Being a bit rude... hey

[Clirion]

i'm confused. what does Android have to do with Windows 10 TP? So you're saying users who don't all agree that windows is metro now, should switch to android? One is a mobile OS and the other is a desktop OS.    Being a bit rude... hey

The other is  a mobile OS, a desktop OS, a tablet OS, and a Game Console OS.  Android is a Mobile OS and Tablet OS.

 

[Dot Matrix]

i'm confused. what does Android have to do with Windows 10 TP? So you're saying users who don't all agree that windows is metro now, should switch to android? One is a mobile OS and the other is a desktop OS.    Being a bit rude... hey

There are those here who are under the impression Android will replace Windows.

[Knife Party]

There are those here who are under the impression Android will replace Windows.

huh?

[Jim K Global Moderator]

huh?

He is backpedaling again. :-)

[DeadEndAccount]

doesn't WinRT sit on top of Win32 though?

 

It really depends on what one defines as win32 given that it appears that gradually what Microsoft has defined as Win32 has either been spun off and categorised as its own or it has been relabelled as a 'low level library' that sits as an low level library for WinRT. When I'm thinking of Win32 I probably should be more accurate - removing dependency on GDI/GDI+, Common Control and Dialogues along with other legacy technologies. I guess in the case of Microsoft they're gradually, piece by piece, replacing legacy code whilst ensuring that a move forward has as minimal disruption as possible. Eventually WinRT once 'complete' will include parts of what used to be part of win32, the re-classification of some win32 parts as low level (which pushes them down the stack and shared between Windows Phone, Windows RT and Windows x86/x64).