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Nintendo Begins Distributing Software Kit for New NX Platform

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+Asmodai    637

After reading this article:

Nintendo NX: Hardware Specs, Games, Third Party Support And Everything You Need To Know

I figured it would be fun to speculate as they have.  I was going to use that title for the thread but as that title is pure click bait I went the more honest route.

My CONSOLE hardware (wild) speculation is:

AMD designed 14nm FinFET APU featuring 8 K12-based CPUs and a Radeon Rx 400 Series-based GPU with 8GB of HBM2 Unified RAM.

This matches the PS4 and Xbox One in that it's made by AMD, has 8 Cores and uses a Radeon GPU as well as the 8GB of unified RAM, this will hopefully make it easier for multi-plat devs to port Xbox One/PS4 games to the NX.

It's different because it's made on a 14nm FinFET process (as opposed to the 28nm of the Xbox One and PS4), uses a newer GPU, faster RAM (than even the PS4) and is ARMv8 based instead of x86-64.

Being ARMv8 based also means the NX HANDHELD could share a similar architecture with a multi-core ARMv8 SoC and stripped down Radeon (similar to what nVidia does with the Tegra SoCs).

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+Asmodai    637

Is Doctor_Cupcakes on twitter a reliable source (I honestly have no idea)?

That's who that Nintendo Life article uses as a source but even they make sure the prefix the title with "Rumour:"...

I'm under the impression it's ALL just Wild Speculation (as noted in the title of this thread) and it's more fun to guess about a (hardware) competitive device than something weaker than we have now.

If the NX launches around X-mas 2017 or later and doesn't even match the power of the PS4 which would be 4+ years old by then they better have a REALLY good new gimmick (like the Wii's motion gaming)

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LimeMaster    15,602

Is Doctor_Cupcakes on twitter a reliable source (I honestly have no idea)?

That's who that Nintendo Life article uses as a source but even they make sure the prefix the title with "Rumour:"...

I'm under the impression it's ALL just Wild Speculation (as noted in the title of this thread) and it's more fun to guess about a (hardware) competitive device than something weaker than we have now.

If the NX launches around X-mas 2017 or later and doesn't even match the power of the PS4 which would be 4+ years old by then they better have a REALLY good new gimmick (like the Wii's motion gaming)

Maybe. He has uncovered hidden Nintendo information in the past, so it could be true.

I don't know if they'd improve the specs, since the Gamecube was pretty powerful for its time, and it didn't do well.

One thing I do know for sure is that it will have a gimmick, and it will be cheaper than the Wii U.

 

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Showan    698

After reading this article:

Nintendo NX: Hardware Specs, Games, Third Party Support And Everything You Need To Know

I figured it would be fun to speculate as they have.  I was going to use that title for the thread but as that title is pure click bait I went the more honest route.

My CONSOLE hardware (wild) speculation is:

AMD designed 14nm FinFET APU featuring 8 K12-based CPUs and a Radeon Rx 400 Series-based GPU with 8GB of HBM2 Unified RAM.

This matches the PS4 and Xbox One in that it's made by AMD, has 8 Cores and uses a Radeon GPU as well as the 8GB of unified RAM, this will hopefully make it easier for multi-plat devs to port Xbox One/PS4 games to the NX.

It's different because it's made on a 14nm FinFET process (as opposed to the 28nm of the Xbox One and PS4), uses a newer GPU, faster RAM (than even the PS4) and is ARMv8 based instead of x86-64.

Being ARMv8 based also means the NX HANDHELD could share a similar architecture with a multi-core ARMv8 SoC and stripped down Radeon (similar to what nVidia does with the Tegra SoCs).

I like this spec to a degree, but I would change the 8GB of RAM to 12-16...

Why you ask, because Ninty also introduces a DS (or back to the GameBoy name) that really pushes the console/portable interactions.

Even the handheld will have 4GB of memory, for optimal performance.

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greenwizard88    637

How do you release a gaming console and make it less powerful than the ones that are 2+ years old? That's just asking to be ignored.

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TPreston    5,389

Who cares about the hardware ? Its the Nintendo Games that matter give us a Metroid and Zelda launch combo and it will be a hit.

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Quillz    1,011

Who cares about the hardware ? Its the Nintendo Games that matter give us a Metroid and Zelda launch combo and it will be a hit.

I don't think we'll get a Metroid launch title anytime soon, the series has never been very popular in Japan and some of the more recent releases, like Other M, weren't all that well received.

What would really move new Nintendo hardware is a Pokemon launch title. Usually they come late into a console's lifespan, so Nintendo should try the opposite.

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Torolol    926

yeah, Wii-U only make sense after Super Mario Maker release, at least for me.

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compl3x    6,290

In any generation has the most powerful console sold the most? I don't think so.

 

As far as speculation goes: it is too hard to ever work out what Ninty are up to. Sometimes they make some wild decisions. 

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johnnyq3    44

Well in all honesty I think it will be more powerful, on the other end of it not being as powerful as a PS4.  If Nintendo is trying to compete with the PS4 in terms of power they have already lost, but if they have a system that on average does 1080p 60fps without breaking a sweat or heavy power use then that will blow the PS4 and Xbox one out of the water.

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Draconian Guppy    13,038

I think it will be powered by zen!

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Draconian Guppy    13,038

In any generation has the most powerful console sold the most? I don't think so.

 

As far as speculation goes: it is too hard to ever work out what Ninty are up to. Sometimes they make some wild decisions. 

Hmmm I dunno, what about PS1 vs N64, IMO that was pretty much a tie.

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+Asmodai    637

 

I like this spec to a degree, but I would change the 8GB of RAM to 12-16...

Why you ask, because Ninty also introduces a DS (or back to the GameBoy name) that really pushes the console/portable interactions.

Even the handheld will have 4GB of memory, for optimal performance.

I don't think Nintendo is going to spend a lot of effort to beat the existing consoles as others have eluded to.  As such MATCHING the 8GB is all I expect.  ESPECIALLY if they go with HBM2 so their advantage will be in speed, not capacity.  HBM1 is out now on the AMD Fiji GPUs but is limited to 4GB and expensive.  HBM2 will launch next year and be used by both AMD "Arctic Islands" and nVidia "Pascal" GPUs so if the NX launches around X-mas 2017 or later then HBM2 should be more affordable by then.

If Nintendo has LESS memory than the PS4 and Xbox One it's going to make porting more difficult for developers.

Who cares about the hardware ? Its the Nintendo Games that matter give us a Metroid and Zelda launch combo and it will be a hit.

3rd party developers/publishers care about the hardware.  If it's performance capabilities are too different from the competitors it makes it significantly more difficult to port multi-platform games to the hardware and the platform will be ignored.  So it's important to gamers who want to play 3rd party games on their NX that the hardware is close enough for developers/publishers to embrace.  If gamers really don't care about 3rd party titles and only care about Nintendo's premier stable of exclusives then the Wii U would be selling great and there would be no need for an NX in the first place.  Also if they don't go with a POWER based CPU they need enough horepower to emulate it if they want to include backwards compatibility (or include POWER chips in the console as well which gets expensive).

I do agree that Nintendo doesn't care enough about pushing hardware capabilities to go off in some crazy new direction on their own.  The stuff I suggested was pretty standard stuff though and it's better than what the Xbox One and PS4 have primarily because they launched years ago and the tech has changed.  The Fabs are going to 14nm next year... so if the NX launches in 2017 that won't be a bleeding edge process.  HBM2 comes out next year.  K12 is AMD's ARMv8 CPU but ARMv8 came out a long time ago and AMD already makes Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony's console chips.

I personally think they'll go ARMv8 over x86-64 just because Nintendo likes to be different (they don't want to be seen as copying Microsoft and Sony) and their strength is in mobile gaming (the 3DS far outsells the Wii U).  Android, iPhone, etc. all use ARMv8 (as will Windows 10 phones) and so it's a hot area for moble development and even the "Jaguar" CPUs in the PS4 and Xbox One were designed more for mobile than true desktop work.  The CPU power of the Xbox One and PS4 comes from the fact that they have 8 CPU cores instead of the normal 4 core cap of commercial "Jaguar" implementations and they have better GPUs integrated than commercial "Jaguar" implementations.  If they do go x86-64 it's bound to be Zen drived though as Zen and K12 are designed to be interchangeable (though Zen is launching much sooner).

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Lamp0    654

 

3rd party developers/publishers care about the hardware.

I don't think the hardware being similar to PS4 & XBO is going to make publishers & developers want to jump on board & port all their games across. It would have to be worth the effort.

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+Asmodai    637

I don't think the hardware being similar to PS4 & XBO is going to make publishers & developers want to jump on board & port all their games across. It would have to be worth the effort.

And how do you think they determine if it's "worth the effort"?  The level of effort required to port a game from platform A to platform B is largely dependent on how similar the hardware is.  The Wii U is so dissimilar to the PS4 and Xbox One that the level of effort is large and due to the poor sales and thus limited target audience deemed not worth the effort for most 3rd party devs today.  If you're making a PS4 or Xbox One game the level of effort to port the game to the other is comparatively small (they are VERY similar hardware, along with the PC) and thus very little effort is required and so most 3rd party games are released for both (unless Sony or MS pay them not to be).  If Nintendo wants to get 3rd party developers back they therefore need to lower the level of effort it takes to port a game to the NX and they do that by making the hardware similar.  Again though since the NX will be launched YEARS after the PS4 and Xbox One they can just use modern equivalents to what is in those consoles and automatically gain a performance advantage just by virtue of the fact that computer technology has advanced in those years.

 

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Veiva    200

For purely "geek" reasons, I would love the NX to run on a POWER8 chip. In any case, a netbook CPU should not be powering a console. That's laughable.

The other things I don't care too much about specifically. A good unified RAM architecture and GPU would be nice (by good I do mean superior to PS4 and Xbox One, though that shouldn't be hard). In essence, all games should run at 1080p and 60 FPS without having to sacrifice graphical fidelity.

Nintendo used to make powerful consoles. In fact, only the Wii and Wii U are "wimpy" amongst their generations. Even the GameCube was considerably more impressive than the PS2 (and only a smidgen worse than the Xbox).

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+Asmodai    637

For purely "geek" reasons, I would love the NX to run on a POWER8 chip. In any case, a netbook CPU should not be powering a console. That's laughable.

The other things I don't care too much about specifically. A good unified RAM architecture and GPU would be nice (by good I do mean superior to PS4 and Xbox One, though that shouldn't be hard). In essence, all games should run at 1080p and 60 FPS without having to sacrifice graphical fidelity.

Nintendo used to make powerful consoles. In fact, only the Wii and Wii U are "wimpy" amongst their generations. Even the GameCube was considerably more impressive than the PS2 (and only a smidgen worse than the Xbox).

In theory I'd like Nintendo to stick with the POWER architecture as well.  The problem is no one uses it anymore so it's unfamiliar to current developers and probably pricey to get custom designs made compared to ARM.  I'm not sure about POWER8 specifically as I don't really get how the POWER1-8 processors line up with the PowerPC line of which the PowerPC 7xx based CPUs have been in the last 3 Nintendo consoles.

A netbook CPU IS exactly what is powering modern consoles.  The "Jaguar" architecture used in both the PS4 and Xbox One is designed for tablets, notebooks, and mini-PCs.  It's only more powerful because it has 8 CPUs whereas the commercial versions top out at half that and it's coupled with a more powerful GPU.  Again I don't expect Nintendo to go way out on a limb in CPU R&D so if that's good enough for their competition then it should be good enough for them.  They'll be able to make a superior product just by the fact that their product will be coming out years later and in those years the industry has advanced on it's own without Nintendo having to devote a ton of R&D themselves.

If by good you mean superior to PS4 for unified RAM then that's a tall order as GDDR5 RAM is still one of the fastest.  Only HBM is faster currently which is my wild speculation included it.  HBM1 is limited to 4GB though, HBM2 comes out next year and will probably become the standard RAM form mid to high end GPUs and then hopefully by the end of 2017 the prices will have come down to the point where it's feasable for use in a console for Nintendo.  Even then they'll probably want to use as little as they can and so they'll likely just match the capacity of the PS4 and Xbox One at 8GB and let the superior performance differentiate them.  Even a mid to low range 14nm FinFET Radeon Rx 400 with HBM2 memory should be able to do 1080p@60fps with no problem.  Also it will have HARDWARE decode for HEVC/H.265 for encoding/decoding 4k streams so while it will still almost certainly lack the horsepower to do full 4k gaming it could at least use the more advanced codec to stream to other devices as well as decode 4k video streams (such as 4k Netflix) in hardware.

The Gamecube was indeed a competitive piece of hardware.  The problem is from a hardware standpoint the Wii and the Wii U are still working off of that over 10 year old design.  This worked for the Wii because they hit the jackpot with the motion gaming and people didn't care if the hardware was behind.  Hitting the jackpot like that in "gimmicks" is REALLY hard though, that's as likely as Notch making another game as successful as Minecraft.  They tried it with the Wii U tablet controller and it failed miserably.  Maybe they will come up with some amazing "gimmick" that will inspire Wii-like sales but I doubt it.  Hopefully the failure of the Wii U "gimmick" will lead them back to the Gamecube mentality to make something that actually competes in specs (as well as trying another "gimmick"... I don't want to see the innovation stop, just the console not completely dependent on it working).  Also I think the big gaming "gimmick" for the next couple years is likely to be VR which Nintendo has expressed a lack of interest in (for good reason I think, they want the console to bring people together and VR is a largely single person experience).  Even if they wanted to do VR though that too requires significant hardware (which is why Oculus wants nothing to do with consoles driving the Rift and many say the PS4 is too weak for the Morpheus to work.)

 

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Veiva    200

In theory I'd like Nintendo to stick with the POWER architecture as well.  The problem is no one uses it anymore so it's unfamiliar to current developers and probably pricey to get custom designs made compared to ARM.  I'm not sure about POWER8 specifically as I don't really get how the POWER1-8 processors line up with the PowerPC line of which the PowerPC 7xx based CPUs have been in the last 3 Nintendo consoles.

If I understand it correctly, POWER is "open source" now. In any case, there's no doubt it's more expensive than ARM would be, but it would also be considerably more powerful (it's not a mobile CPU after all). As well, the basic principals of "high performance" computing used in games are pretty CPU agnostic, and rarely do developers use assembly often enough to cause a headache on modern platforms (generally just SIMD math optimizations and other similar things).

A netbook CPU IS exactly what is powering modern consoles.  The "Jaguar" architecture used in both the PS4 and Xbox One is designed for tablets, notebooks, and mini-PCs.  It's only more powerful because it has 8 CPUs whereas the commercial versions top out at half that and it's coupled with a more powerful GPU.  Again I don't expect Nintendo to go way out on a limb in CPU R&D so if that's good enough for their competition then it should be good enough for them.  They'll be able to make a superior product just by the fact that their product will be coming out years later and in those years the industry has advanced on it's own without Nintendo having to devote a ton of R&D themselves.

And that is sad. Dedicated consoles do not run on batteries. There is no need to sacrifice performance for lower wattage. Nintendo did push for paired single instructions in their Gecko processor, which is unique to their consoles and required modifications to the stock PowerPC 7xx.

When the Xbox 360 and PS3 came out, they were competitive with high end PC hardware at launch. Sadly, the Xbox One and PS4 were inferior to mid-range PCs at launch. That is a big step backwards, especially when you consider that consoles are the same hardware for 5 or more years, while the PC can improve every year. By the time the "Xbox Two" or "PS5" comes out, PCs could very well pump out 4K with 120+ FPS on newly released "PC ports" without breaking a sweat.

If by good you mean superior to PS4 for unified RAM then that's a tall order as GDDR5 RAM is still one of the fastest.  Only HBM is faster currently which is my wild speculation included it.  HBM1 is limited to 4GB though, HBM2 comes out next year and will probably become the standard RAM form mid to high end GPUs and then hopefully by the end of 2017 the prices will have come down to the point where it's feasable for use in a console for Nintendo.  Even then they'll probably want to use as little as they can and so they'll likely just match the capacity of the PS4 and Xbox One at 8GB and let the superior performance differentiate them.  Even a mid to low range 14nm FinFET Radeon Rx 400 with HBM2 memory should be able to do 1080p@60fps with no problem.  Also it will have HARDWARE decode for HEVC/H.265 for encoding/decoding 4k streams so while it will still almost certainly lack the horsepower to do full 4k gaming it could at least use the more advanced codec to stream to other devices as well as decode 4k video streams (such as 4k Netflix) in hardware.

12 GB of GDDR5 RAM would be superior to the PS4, as well. Doesn't need to just be bandwidth.

The Gamecube was indeed a competitive piece of hardware.  The problem is from a hardware standpoint the Wii and the Wii U are still working off of that over 10 year old design.  This worked for the Wii because they hit the jackpot with the motion gaming and people didn't care if the hardware was behind.  Hitting the jackpot like that in "gimmicks" is REALLY hard though, that's as likely as Notch making another game as successful as Minecraft.  They tried it with the Wii U tablet controller and it failed miserably.  Maybe they will come up with some amazing "gimmick" that will inspire Wii-like sales but I doubt it.  Hopefully the failure of the Wii U "gimmick" will lead them back to the Gamecube mentality to make something that actually competes in specs (as well as trying another "gimmick"... I don't want to see the innovation stop, just the console not completely dependent on it working).  Also I think the big gaming "gimmick" for the next couple years is likely to be VR which Nintendo has expressed a lack of interest in (for good reason I think, they want the console to bring people together and VR is a largely single person experience).  Even if they wanted to do VR though that too requires significant hardware (which is why Oculus wants nothing to do with consoles driving the Rift and many say the PS4 is too weak for the Morpheus to work.)

Yea, I know, and I find that saddening. But hindsight is 20/20.

 

 

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+Asmodai    637

I think the key is that Nintendo is unlikely to spend a great deal of money on developing the NX.  My wild theory is based of Nintendo doing as little as necessary to beat the competition by taking into account general industry advances since the other consoles launched, not make the best device possible.  Even my suggestion if you look up this thread some are saying is more than Nintendo is likely to do.  As such I find it highly unlikely that Nintendo will use a comparatively expensive custom POWER based CPU when their competition is using cheap, weak "Jaguar" based CPUs.  If a 14nm ARMv8 based CPU is more powerful than the 28nm "Jaguar" CPU in the Xbox One and PS4 then they can just use that and leverage the fact that ARMv8 CPUs are cheap since it's what mobile devices all use.  The 3DS today uses an ARM based CPU so it's a natural extension for them, especially if they want the NX console and NX handheld to feature similar architecture.

As for memory sure 12 GB of GDDR5 RAM would be better than the 8 on the PS4 in capacity but not necessarily speed.  More capacity means developers have to design the games to manage memory differently though and GDDR5 isn't going to be the top end memory type in 2017+ for GPUs like GDDR5 was when the PS4 launched.  I'd rather have 8GB of MUCH faster HMB2 memory than even 16GB of GDDR5 and having the same amount of memory means the games can be designed the same, they just run much faster.

I agree that this generation of consoles (Xbox One and PS4) are weaker compared to PCs at the time of launch than prior generations.  Like it or not that's the new norm though, if you expect Nintendo of all people to turn that around you're MUCH more optimistic than I.  I really don't see Nintendo trying to push hardware limits to the extreme, I see them doing the MINIMUM necessary to beat the competition at the lowest price with commonly used (familiar to developers) architectures.

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Veiva    200

I don't think Nintendo would try to return to the GameCube and prior era (at least not with Iwata at the helm, but things could change now, who knows) of good to superior hardware. I wish they would try, because Microsoft and Sony really screwed up this generation with subpar hardware, and they could take these behemoths' niche. Since the GameCube, they have also been trying to embrace third parties and aren't nearly as strict as they were with the N64 and prior (i.e., censoring games on their platform).

In all honesty, I expect Nintendo to release subpar hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if their new console was worse than the Xbox One or PS4.

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+Asmodai    637

In all honesty, I expect Nintendo to release subpar hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if their new console was worse than the Xbox One or PS4.

I don't understand what the point would even be to release a console in late 2016+ that doesn't have at least equal hardware specs to the Xbox One.  If you aren't going to raise the bar over consoles released in 2013 why even release a new console at all, just stick with the Wii U.

If their big idea is having a common platform with their handheld and their hardware is worse than the Xbox One they're going to run into direct competition with the mobile platforms expanding into micro-consoles.  Sometime either later this year or next year Apple is going to release an updated Apple TV and it will most likely have specs between the Wii U and the Xbox One and feature gaming capabilities (their new Metal API lays the groundwork for this), nVidia already has the SHIELD Android TV console that has specs between the Wii U and the Xbox One and I'd bet by 2017 or so they'll release an updated version with improved specs as well, they're just the first major player to release a "micro-console" on the Android TV platform and I doubt they'll be the last (Android support for the new Vulkan API was recently announced).  Amazon has their Fire TV that will likely be refreshed when the 14nm SoCs hit with improved specs that fall between the Wii U and the Xbox One.  Amazon has been buying up game developers and building it's own game studio to support its platform.

It's true the Apple, Amazon, and nVidia/Google haven't made great inroads so far as game consoles but I don't think they're going to just give up and walk away.  With the rapid advancement in the mobile SoC market and the long console lifespans I think they're going to get more and more competitive as the current generation ages.  If Nintendo releases a device with lower spec's than the Xbox One in 2016+ then it's these micro-consoles they're going to find themselves competing with... not Sony and Microsoft.  Sure the 3DS sells well but there are a lot of mobile Apple and Android devices out there as well and they're getting better and better every year.

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TruckWEB    480

You have to remember that Nintendo always tries to sell a "cheaper" console money wise.  So, will it be possible in 2016 to have a console that is faster than the One/PS4 for only $299/$349??  Including some sort of gimmick that Nintendo will surely introduce with this new console...?

If the next Apple TV is able to use the AppStore and... play games...  Add to that nVidia Shield TV that boost some amazing specs...  What can Nintendo do better?

 

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+Asmodai    637

You have to remember that Nintendo always tries to sell a "cheaper" console money wise.  So, will it be possible in 2016 to have a console that is faster than the One/PS4 for only $299/$349??  Including some sort of gimmick that Nintendo will surely introduce with this new console...?

If the next Apple TV is able to use the AppStore and... play games...  Add to that nVidia Shield TV that boost some amazing specs...  What can Nintendo do better?

 

There haven't been "micro consoles" before.  If Nintendo launches a new console Christmas 2016 or later it's going to be VERY hard to come in below the reduced price of the Xbox One and PS4 (which will like have had price cuts to around $299/$349 by then... heck they'll probably get that this Christmas) and not run into direct competition with "micro consoles".  I have no idea what their gimmick will be but the Wii U's certainly didn't catch on so I don't think it's safe to bet they'll be able to recreate the success of the Wii Motion controls... if it were that easy the Wii U wouldn't be doing so poorly.  Nintendo does have the top stable of first party games that Apple and Android lack but I don't see them drawing more 3rd party support than Apple or Android if the mobile platforms are offering superior hardware.  Lack of 3rd party support and worse hardware will put them right back where they are now with the Wii U... so again I don't understand the point of even releasing a new console in that case.  I think they need to offer better hardware than the PS4 but I think they can offer the system I outlined in my initial post here in late 2017 for under $400.  It may not be cheaper than what the PS4 and Xbox One are selling for then but it would be cheaper than what they were are their launches and it would be a higher performing system.

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+Asmodai    637

Turns out the Apple TV is a bit weaker than was expected.

Kotaku has a blog about it but it's a bit harsh:

http://kotaku.com/apples-so-called-gaming-console-is-a-major-bust-1729655923

I'm confused by it's lack of features because it uses the A8 SoC as expected which supports HEVC for FaceTime on the iPhone and should enable 4k streaming support but Apple chose a HDMI 1.4 port instead of the HDMI 2.0 that's required for 4k output to the TV.  As such they don't advertise 4k at all and treat it instead as a 1080p-only device which is what the old Apple TV already was.  None of these hardware updates were required to just keep doing 1080p support.

nVidia has a nice comparison page here:

http://shield.nvidia.com/android-tv/shield-androidtv-vs-appletv-vs-roku-vs-firetv

That's handy for comparing these "micro consoles" but keep in mind it's nVidia doing the comparison so take it with a grain of salt on performance claims and such.

I don't think Apple is going to suddenly start refreshing Apple TV yearly so it may be years before another update.  As such I'm pretty sure Apple can be removed from competition with the NX console if Nintendo decides to go the "inexpensive" route.  Right now I'd say the nVidia Shield Android TV is the baseline for what the NX needs to at least match in specs if their plan is to release a $200 or less console.  If the NX console is going to be more than $200 they're going to need to compete on specs with the Xbox One and PS4.  It's also very possible Amazon and Roku to release updates to their Micro Consoles (Fire TV 2 and Roku 4) before the NX launches that could potentially have better specs than even the Shield Android TV and come in at under $200.

It should be interesting to see where the NX ends up trying to compete, $200 or less micro-consoles or more expensive Xbox One/PS4 (which will likely have had their prices go down from where they are now before the NX launches)

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