rpm Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Welcome to the Definite Thread for PHP vs ASP! After a long debate and me reffering to ASP as being homosexual while PHP is straight as an arrow with my good friend, Cody, we've decided to take it to Neowin so let's know what you think.. is PHP or ASP better? Vote and explain if possible please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GR7 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 check this out guys http://www.sitepoint.com/article/871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 neowin_hipster Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 that article is full of **** its unbelievable. thanks for the good laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 tch1337 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 check this out guyshttp://www.sitepoint.com/article/871 LOL. I like how he puts price of an FTP client in the price of developing in PHP.... I'm sick of arguing with the MS guys though, I'll still take the following for web dev: Jakarta Struts + Velocity Templating. Kicks ASP.NET's ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 pHuzi0n Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I've seen many people stating that ASP.NET is compiled although it isn't! The .NET CLR is a virtual machine that is MS's lame attempt to compete with Java. ASP.NET code has to be compiled at execution time which is a downside (over scripts) for quick web applications but better (than scripts) for slow ones. Overall, most web applications are very quick and it comes out as a disadvantage for ASP.NET. A lot of people have been making faceless remarks of which one they think is faster but I'd like to know if anyone knows of a direct comparison between the two in which two groups of developers write identical applications (in function) using the two languages and compare which performs best. If it hasn't been done before, perhaps Neowin could hold a coding challenge with prizes (hosting, IDE's, hardware, cash?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tim Dorr Veteran Posted January 7, 2004 Veteran Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hmm...PHP can actually run ASP.Net stuff, though: http://pecl.php.net/package/mono :whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 snippet1 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 check this out guyshttp://www.sitepoint.com/article/871 All those are the points I, and other supporters of ASP.net have been trying to make.// Hey Timdorr - are you gonna put that PHP mono thing on? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 entropyx Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Who cares if it's open source? Most of you guys probably don't even help write core functions or anything. PHP is a great language, it's solid, and it has it's practical uses. ASP.NET with any of it's languages is solid, and it has it's practical uses too. They're both great options, program in whatever you feel like, I'll stick with ASP.NET/C# and you can stick with PHP. Anything you can do with PHP, I can do with my language, and anything I can do with mine, you could probably do too, so there's no need to wave your e-penis around because you use opensource (haha) software and linux. The only thing that annoys me is when some random joe has a PHPNuke powered site and think's he's the master of the internet. Hi, you didn't write anything, you don't know what's going wrong with your pages when something goes wrong, you have to google for an answer, that's not "knowing" a language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Prasanth Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I've seen many people stating that ASP.NET is compiled although it isn't! The .NET CLR is a virtual machine that is MS's lame attempt to compete with Java. ASP.NET code has to be compiled at execution time which is a downside (over scripts) for quick web applications but better (than scripts) for slow ones. Overall, most web applications are very quick and it comes out as a disadvantage for ASP.NET. The .NET compiler compiles the IL code only on the first run. The subsequent runs will be faster as it will not compile if its already compiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 tch1337 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Who cares if it's open source? Most of you guys probably don't even help write core functions or anything.PHP is a great language, it's solid, and it has it's practical uses. ASP.NET with any of it's languages is solid, and it has it's practical uses too. They're both great options, program in whatever you feel like, I'll stick with ASP.NET/C# and you can stick with PHP. Anything you can do with PHP, I can do with my language, and anything I can do with mine, you could probably do too, so there's no need to wave your e-penis around because you use opensource (haha) software and linux. The only thing that annoys me is when some random joe has a PHPNuke powered site and think's he's the master of the internet. Hi, you didn't write anything, you don't know what's going wrong with your pages when something goes wrong, you have to google for an answer, that's not "knowing" a language. Open Source software has many virtues, regardless if you help develop the software as well as use it. I'm not going to go in to it all here, but if you do a little reading you'll find a plethora of reasons -- from simple reasons that make your life easier as a developer to great social ideas that could literally change the world and change business as we know it. And I also just had to respond to if you have to 'google for an anwser' that's not 'knowing' a language. Well, allow me to fill you in -- in the real world we all use google more than any book on our desk and even the greatest programmers ask for help on mailing lists, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 snippet1 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 And I also just had to respond to if you have to 'google for an anwser' that's not 'knowing' a language. Well, allow me to fill you in -- in the real world we all use google more than any book on our desk and even the greatest programmers ask for help on mailing lists, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Definately true :happy: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 pHuzi0n Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 The .NET compiler compiles the IL code only on the first run. The subsequent runs will be faster as it will not compile if its already compiled. That's what builder.com has to say in this article: Managed native codeAfter the Class is verified, the JIT Compiler kicks in to turn the IL into managed native code. This happens only the first time a method is called. After that, the class loader (which tracks what code has been loaded or not) recognizes that the code is already loaded and compiled and doesn?t try to retrieve and recompile the same bit of code. The compiled code remains in memory until the process shuts down. At that point, the garbage collection functions of the code manager kick in and the memory that it was using is again made available to the system. They make it sound as though it won't recompile code if it has to create a new process with the same code (they aren't really clear on this), but that once there's no process using the code the garbage collector will purge it from memory and the next time it needs the code it will have to compile it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 LAD Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 That's what builder.com has to say in this article:They make it sound as though it won't recompile code if it has to create a new process with the same code (they aren't really clear on this), but that once there's no process using the code the garbage collector will purge it from memory and the next time it needs the code it will have to compile it again. So, just like Java. Nice attempt from MS to copy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Rathamon Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I vote for the "I dont think Alex Kelm is in any position to talk about whats gay and what isnt" option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Devnull_ Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Okay, it looks like some people are finding this hard to understand, so I'm going to say it clearly. ASP sucks! PHP owns ASP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 linked Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Okay, it looks like some people are finding this hard to understand, so I'm going to say it clearly.ASP sucks! PHP owns ASP Please see my post a few pages back on "Not making all PHP users look like idiots". I know, I know, the post only entailed "Maturity is far more important than capital letters"- I'm sorry I forgot "Big blue bold letters" in that statement. This isn't "ASD r teh suxx, PHPz iz teh betr"... Or, atleast, it shouldn't be. Please, provide a valid arguement. I'm all for PHP, but I have to appologize to the ASP community for siding with the giant-blueberry-font man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Shadrack Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I program in ASP because that is all that I've learned well. If you have good programming practices and know how to modulize your code well, then you can get away with your page source not looking like utter garble. But having an intermix of HTML, Server Side VBScript, and Client Side Javascript all running in one page, going back and forth...it's a brain bender. I've played around with ASP.net, and although the code does look nicer, I felt like I didn't really know what was going on behind the code. I had no control over what html is rendered out. I guess that could be either a good or bad thing, depending on what your standpoint is. It's also probably because I didn't spend much time in it. But i've seen some amazing things made in ASP.NET. It has some awesome features, and some dumb ones too. I didn't like how on one web page i made in asp.net when i jumped in mozilla firebird it didn't load up any of the javascript functions because it didn't think my browser could support it. Had to run the interface as pure post-back. But I guess also Mozilla Firebird isn't even 1.0 yet so *shrug*. I should try to get some PHP under my belt though. 'Cause I don't really know what is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GR7 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 its always good to be proficient in both languages. Hey linked, Im with you man. Some PHP wannabes make serious PHP developers look like idiots by going the "PHP 0wnz j0ur azz" way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 linked Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Thanks, silver. I'm not even a "serious PHP designer"- I hardly use it for anythign corporate, just a personal site or two (I'm only 15, heh)... I'm just sick of these kids that look like they learned their social skills from Counter-Strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 GR7 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 lol. Good one on CStrike and social skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Son of Hook Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Agreed. I have a feeling over half of the replies in the thread are from people that have never used both languages and/or their experience is limited to PHP or ASP.NET. It is good to know both, then choose which you like better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 userguy Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 i think you might be a little wrong also... linux in corporate environments is expensive. You have to pay to use linux in a corporate env. (example redhat) MySQL in a corp env costs money also (look at the licenseing terms) along with a lot of other open source projects they all request money for corporate and enterprise environments... so it can end up costing MORE then a windows solution if you do it right Wrong wrong wrong. http://www.mysql.com/downloads/index.html Sure enough, it's free to use however you want. If you want support, then you will have to pay. Good thing you looked at the licensing terms like you encouraged others to do, right? And as for Linux, it too is free. Check any distro's website and you'll see that sure enough you can download it for free. Install it for free. Use it for free. It's when you want support and extra goodies that you start having to pay money. Anything GPL'd is free. Free as free is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 abaxion Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 PHP, no doubt!!! It's faster, simpler and better :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 bluebsh Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Wrong wrong wrong.http://www.mysql.com/downloads/index.html Sure enough, it's free to use however you want. If you want support, then you will have to pay. Good thing you looked at the licensing terms like you encouraged others to do, right? And as for Linux, it too is free. Check any distro's website and you'll see that sure enough you can download it for free. Install it for free. Use it for free. It's when you want support and extra goodies that you start having to pay money. Anything GPL'd is free. Free as free is free. non-gpl use licensenice to see you assume stuff.. read the whole license and what they request... and while searching for even more back up on this statement i came across this.. A commercial license of the MySQL server costs $440 (at the time of this article) Site about MySQL server costsnotice its A COMMERCIAL LICENSE... GPL doesn't cover all the uses the one that is free for MySQL is the MySQL free public license which is not intended for corporate use.. if you write an application that is NOT under the GPL then you MUST by a license If your application is not licensed under the GPL and you intend to distribute MySQL software (be that internally or externally), you must first obtain a commercial license to the MySQL software in question. Non gpl license useage you know who doesn't GPL their software? companies that sell their products! so in turn MySQL does cost money for corporate people who don't want to make their apps publicly available for free read the facts before you go blurting off crap Anything GPL'd is free. Free as free is free. not nessicarly true, as the MySQL license as an example, if you use GPL with non GPL developed products its no longer free or under GPL by terms of the GPL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 pHuzi0n Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 The only case where you're required to pay for MySQL is when you distribute (any part of) it with a non-gpl app. Why should MySQL AB work their butts off for other people to go around selling it and not giving MySQL AB any compensation? The basic idea is that you can do whatever you want with it for free ACCEPT sell it. If you're going to be selling it, you have to license it. That seems perfectly reasonable and it's still MUCH cheaper than licensing any commercial database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Devnull_ Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Please see my post a few pages back on "Not making all PHP users look like idiots".I know, I know, the post only entailed "Maturity is far more important than capital letters"- I'm sorry I forgot "Big blue bold letters" in that statement. This isn't "ASD r teh suxx, PHPz iz teh betr"... Or, atleast, it shouldn't be. Please, provide a valid arguement. I'm all for PHP, but I have to appologize to the ASP community for siding with the giant-blueberry-font man. Im too lazy, I dont want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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rpm
Welcome to the Definite Thread for PHP vs ASP!
After a long debate and me reffering to ASP as being homosexual while PHP is straight as an arrow with my good friend, Cody, we've decided to take it to Neowin so let's know what you think.. is PHP or ASP better? Vote and explain if possible please!
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