[Official] Star Trek: Discovery Thread

[FloatingFatMan]

6 minutes ago, xMorpheousx416 said:

But.. there's only ten Star Wars movies, and we have 100s of SW books.  There's ten Star Trek movies along a single timeline, three more that throw all those under the bus... and how many ST books?  

Sadly, Star Wars canon is a total mess thanks to Disney declaring that the entire Star Wars Expanded Universe was no longer canon after their purchase, even though it was canon before.   With Trek things are a little simpler in that to be canon, it has to be an official TV or movie production from the official rights holders. That means that NONE of the books, excepting the rare few that are novelisations of TV episodes or movies, have ever been canon.

 

6 minutes ago, xMorpheousx416 said:

 

What keeps it interesting, is seeing what can be done in a limited time frame... Discovery is only ten years before Kirk.

This is why having Spock in Discovery is a mistake, especially this completely screwed up Spock we're seeing.  It's far too close to what we know of Spock for anyone to take this seriously.

[astropheed Veteran]

I'm so very glad I found Star Trek Discovery. It lead me to this thread to discuss why it rubs me the wrong way and that, in turn, lead me to The Orville which does everything so absolutely right. I'm aware it's entirely subjective but Discovery has become a snoozefest with political messages I just can't get behind. It also takes itself far too seriously.

 

The Orville feels right. It feels like they knew exactly what I liked about Star Trek and made a new show about it. I didn't think I could handle Seth MacFarlane as a lead but it turns out I can. Anyways, no hard feelings to those who enjoy Discovery, I did for a bit and to each their own. 

[LOC Veteran]

1 hour ago, astropheed said:

I'm so very glad I found Star Trek Discovery. It lead me to this thread to discuss why it rubs me the wrong way and that, in turn, lead me to The Orville which does everything so absolutely right. I'm aware it's entirely subjective but Discovery has become a snoozefest with political messages I just can't get behind. It also takes itself far too seriously.

 

The Orville feels right. It feels like they knew exactly what I liked about Star Trek and made a new show about it. I didn't think I could handle Seth MacFarlane as a lead but it turns out I can. Anyways, no hard feelings to those who enjoy Discovery, I did for a bit and to each their own. 

I agree, mostly. I too find The Orville incredible at this point, especially with the two parter that just aired. Simply amazing stuff honestly, and Trek would do well to get Seth MacFarlane at some point down the road if possible since he obviously loves Star Trek. However I just find that Discovery hasn't found its footing quite yet, unlike The Orville which most definitely has now. Let's not forget the amount of backstage drama so to speak behind the scenes with all the production stuff on Discovery. That can't be good for good story telling let alone "must adhere to canon or else!" stories. I'm sure many of us went through this exact same thing with TNG, DS9, VOY, and especially Ent. TNG was mostly HORRIBLE the first season right? Same with DS9 basically. Voyager didn't get really fun until they just embraced the insanity heh. And Enterprise, well, I say Enterprise was fine starting from S3 onwards. But those first two seasons, woof. Not to mention, they didn't even call it Star Trek until the 3rd or 4th season!

 

Anyway, I digress. I am always into time travel stories and timeline screwery (I just made up a word maybe? Nah) in my Trek. Always been a sucker for those stories. So I'm into Discovery just fine. Yes, it has problems (some BIG problems) but as I said in that Nerdrotic stream last night - I'm in my 40s I'll take whatever Trek I can get and I'm am not a stickler for canon like some Trek fans are apparently. Also I guess I'm a SJW by virtue of that? I dunno.

[FloatingFatMan]

42 minutes ago, LOC said:

I'm in my 40s I'll take whatever Trek I can get and I'm am not a stickler for canon like some Trek fans are apparently. Also I guess I'm a SJW by virtue of that? I dunno.

Whilst I'm not against a certain amount of flexibility with canon, if you're going to completely pee all over it, why are you bothering to set your new show in the same universe?  That's just disrespectful and rude.

 

(Not you personally... I mean whoever is making the show).

[LOC Veteran]

Isn't that why everyone just basically agrees this is Nu-Trek, and in a totally different timeline than Prime or Kelvin? So unless they merge with canon and bring it over to the Prime canon or whatever by the end of the season, I dunno.

[FloatingFatMan]

1 hour ago, LOC said:

Isn't that why everyone just basically agrees this is Nu-Trek, and in a totally different timeline than Prime or Kelvin? So unless they merge with canon and bring it over to the Prime canon or whatever by the end of the season, I dunno.

Almost.. CBS are calling Discovery the "Prime" timeline, which has resulted in the fans calling "legacy" Trek (TOS, TNG and so on) the "canon" timeline.

 

So now we have:

 

Canon timeline (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT + movies)

Kelvin timeline (New movies)

Prime timeline (Discovery)

 

Fun, eh?  Bloody CBS...

 

[PeterTHX]

1 hour ago, LOC said:

Isn't that why everyone just basically agrees this is Nu-Trek, and in a totally different timeline than Prime or Kelvin? So unless they merge with canon and bring it over to the Prime canon or whatever by the end of the season, I dunno.

"Everyone basically agrees"? No such thing.

[LOC Veteran]

Well by "everyone basically agrees" I meant the internet community that despises the show and wants it off the air as fast as possible. If you watch any of those Youtubers (and even some of the more positive Youtubers) they always mention Nu-Trek and say "This isn't my Trek!" etc etc in regards to Discovery.

[FloatingFatMan]

16 minutes ago, LOC said:

Well by "everyone basically agrees" I meant the internet community that despises the show and wants it off the air as fast as possible. If you watch any of those Youtubers (and even some of the more positive Youtubers) they always mention Nu-Trek and say "This isn't my Trek!" etc etc in regards to Discovery.

If you look back on Enterprise, it didn't have anywhere near the levels of hate that Disco is getting.  Whether that's due to the show itself, or just the way people express themselves lately (there's lots more aggressive polarisation these days), I don't know.

[LOC Veteran]

And the internet wasn't a cesspool like it is today 😛

[shockz]

1 hour ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Almost.. CBS are calling Discovery the "Prime" timeline, which has resulted in the fans calling "legacy" Trek (TOS, TNG and so on) the "canon" timeline.

 

So now we have:

 

Canon timeline (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT + movies)

Kelvin timeline (New movies)

Prime timeline (Discovery)

 

Fun, eh?  Bloody CBS...

 

Discovery is canon. Sigh. Prime timeline is canon.

 

It’s a reference to Kelvin timeline divergence.

 

Kelvin = Not prime 

Everything else = Prime

 

If you want to get technical, Kelvin is also canon, as it’s been established that anything on tv or movies falls into canon realm. The only thing Kelvin is not is prime timeline.

 

The only major issue with canon right now in Discovery is the Spore Drive, and it's not even a story line that has been wrapped up. No doubt this type of travel will either be destroyed or locked out at the eventual conclusion of that story. I also wouldn't be surprised if the spore drive caused some terrible destruction of ship, crew, death, etc... we've already saw two instances of spin outs, on the Glenn and then when Discovery traveled the network to get Tilly. It's definitely not the safest or reliable method of transportation. It's clearly not cut out for mainstream travel, it won't make it past Discovery. I also doubt it'll be coming to Picard series, if anything Quantum Slipstreams will be figured out by then.

 

Other things, like the look of sets, ship design, etc... it's called making a show in 2019 and not the 60s. When ENT did the mirror universe episodes, it looked cheesy then, especially in HD. And even then they used an artistic license with system interactions with computers, screens, etc... Just as it did in the DS9 trials and tribulations episode. It was a nice homage to the original series, but outside of that basing an entire series of of 60s designs would be laughable. Other things like holographic transmitters and holodecks are easily explained as specific to ship designs, and we've already had references to how holotransmissions wreak havoc with other systems and why Pike prefers video communication, as well as it looking more realistic to him. Just because the original enterprise didn't have a holodeck doesn't mean that the technology didn't exist in that time frame. It's an advanced test vessel anyways.

 

For some that claim to be "trekkers" and not get caught up in the entire universe, sure do a good job at getting bent out of shape on the details...

Edited March 1, 2019 by shockz

[shockz]

1 hour ago, shockz said:

Discovery is canon. Sigh. Prime timeline is canon.

 

It’s a reference to Kelvin timeline divergence.

 

Kelvin = Not prime 

Everything else = Prime

 

If you want to get technical, Kelvin is also canon, as it’s been established that anything on tv or movies falls into canon realm. The only thing Kelvin is not is prime timeline.

 

The only major issue with canon right now in Discovery is the Spore Drive, and it's not even a story line that has been wrapped up. No doubt this type of travel will either be destroyed or locked out at the eventual conclusion of that story. I also wouldn't be surprised if the spore drive caused some terrible destruction of ship, crew, death, etc... we've already saw two instances of spin outs, on the Glenn and then when Discovery traveled the network to get Tilly. It's definitely not the safest or reliable method of transportation. It's clearly not cut out for mainstream travel, it won't make it past Discovery. I also doubt it'll be coming to Picard series, if anything Quantum Slipstreams will be figured out by then.

 

Other things, like the look of sets, ship design, etc... it's called making a show in 2019 and not the 60s. When ENT did the mirror universe episodes, it looked cheesy then, especially in HD. And even then they used an artistic license with system interactions with computers, screens, etc... Just as it did in the DS9 trials and tribulations episode. It was a nice homage to the original series, but outside of that basing an entire series of of 60s designs would be laughable. Other things like holographic transmitters and holodecks are easily explained as specific to ship designs, and we've already had references to how holotransmissions wreak havoc with other systems and why Pike prefers video communication, as well as it looking more realistic to him. Just because the original enterprise didn't have a holodeck doesn't mean that the technology didn't exist in that time frame. It's an advanced test vessel anyways.

 

For some that claim to be "trekkers" and not get caught up in the entire universe, sure do a good job at getting bent out of shape on the details...

Oh, also, to add, holographic transmissions were present in the original series movies. Can't recall exactly, but pretty sure they were in Star Trek 6. Why then was this technology not reintroduced until DS9 and the defiant. 

[xMorpheousx416]

Quote

Oh, also, to add, holographic transmissions were present in the original series movies. Can't recall exactly, but pretty sure they were in Star Trek 6. Why then was this technology not reintroduced until DS9 and the defiant. 

You'd be correct.

 

When the President is speaking to Azetbur, leader of the Klingon High Council after her father was killed.

[xMorpheousx416]

Quote

This is why having Spock in Discovery is a mistake, especially this completely screwed up Spock we're seeing.  It's far too close to what we know of Spock for anyone to take this seriously.

I thought the same thing about Pike.  

 

From Captain of the Enterprise, to Discovery, to Fleet Admiral, to wheelchair.. within that ten year span, they will either leave a serious time gap between the end of Discovery, and the beginning of TOS.. or perhaps, tie it together by having members leave on the very missions that brought them to where they are in TOS.

 

Leaving a time gap, allows for anything to happen.  So this "screwed up" Spock as you put it, has plenty of time for some Kohlinahr, and pull his head back out of the chaos prior to joining Kirk.

[techbeck]

Way Spock is acting is before the Kirk crew.  So who knows what happened then.  And even in TOS, he has emotional breakdowns as well as Serek over the Trek series.  Vulcans suppress emotion, but they can still have and experience it.   Like with Serek and Picard in TNG.  Forget the Episode name.  And Spock is half Vulcan and half human.  So makes him more prone to it.  Shall see how the Spock character plays out in Discovery.

[DocM]

In S2 this series has improved quite a bit.  And,

 

TALOS IV

Edited March 2, 2019 by DocM

[DocM]

11 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Almost.. CBS are calling Discovery the "Prime" timeline, which has resulted in the fans calling "legacy" Trek (TOS, TNG and so on) the "canon" timeline.

 

So now we have:

 

Canon timeline (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT + movies)

Kelvin timeline (New movies)

Prime timeline (Discovery)

 

Fun, eh?  Bloody CBS...

 

Much of this has to do with the drama around the CBS/VIACOM merger and former CBS exec Moonves (no Trek fan.) Viacom had some rights, CBS other rights, and this caused the split timelines. 

 

If the merger goes through they could collapse the timelines wave functions with some slick writing  and get back on track.

[FloatingFatMan]

2 hours ago, DocM said:

Much of this has to do with the drama around the CBS/VIACOM merger and former CBS exec Moonves (no Trek fan.) Viacom had some rights, CBS other rights, and this caused the split timelines. 

 

If the merger goes through they could collapse the timelines wave functions with some slick writing  and get back on track.

Yes, I know.  CBS and Viacom merging would be the best option and finally resolve the total mess Trek canon has become because of the split years ago.

[PeterTHX]

"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a STAR TREK fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does STAR TREK want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy

[FloatingFatMan]

Just saw this weeks episode.  I totally did NOT see that coming!

 

Spoiler

Clearly, we must be in a timeline that's AFTER the events of the original Trek pilot where Pike met the Talosians, but as Talos IV was made out of bounds, Michael should not have been able to set a course there without getting all sorts of warning messages...

 

[LOC Veteran]

Spoiler

Yeah I think its pretty clear we are either in a new timeline completely or a really messed up "prime" universe at this point. I think its pretty obvious with all the time stuff and anomalies now we are either getting a timeline reset or things will be set "correct" at some point by the time S3 comes along. At least I hope so, because man if they somehow keep 3 different timelines going, nope.

 

[Som]

That episode gave me a headache... it felt like two full episodes were spliced into one. ... personally if I was in charge this is how it would have gone....

michael burnham... "i've off to vulcan ....byeeeeeeeeeeee"

 

then the first episode is about the time vortex thing on discovery and other character building....

... next weeks episode .... focus on burnham on vulcan... but that's just me....   

 

Vulcan looked pretty though.  

 

I don't understand why it has to be all so fast-paced. It seems to aimed and the "Suicide Squad" audience, where they think if there isn't an explosion or flashing light or shouting then the audience will loose focus.   I watched mindhunter this week and there where 10 minute scenes with characters in a single room just talking and it was riveting.  Also why do people keep going on about the orville, it's pretty terrible

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

3 hours ago, Som said:

Also why do people keep going on about the orville, it's pretty terrible

Mainly because, not counting the recent 2 part conclusion, the Orville IS people talking without explosions every 5 seconds.

[Som]

15 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Mainly because, not counting the recent 2 part conclusion, the Orville IS people talking without explosions every 5 seconds.

meh still don't like it (i gave it 5 episodes)

[xMorpheousx416]

19 hours ago, techbeck said:

Way Spock is acting is before the Kirk crew.  So who knows what happened then.  And even in TOS, he has emotional breakdowns as well as Serek over the Trek series.  Vulcans suppress emotion, but they can still have and experience it.   Like with Serek and Picard in TNG.  Forget the Episode name.  And Spock is half Vulcan and half human.  So makes him more prone to it.  Shall see how the Spock character plays out in Discovery.

Episode name, affectionately called: Sarek.  S3 E23.

 

To which Picard later disclosed those feelings to Spock in Unification pt 2... and we see Spock reel back from how intense Sarek's feelings truly were.