Quick poll on the UK's decision to leave the EU

[JoseyWales]

24 minutes ago, Depicus said:

That's a bit like saying don't go to the USA because of Donald Trump.....

 

I'd be interested to know why you think the EU was a "fail out of the gate" because as I see it those countries in trouble like Greece, Spain or Portugal have only themselves to blame. They happily borrowed and spent while the good times rolled as they thought the economic boom would never end (what do they say about people who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it) and rung up massive debts which they simply could not service. Hardly the fault of the EU or the Euro.

They have been as idiotic as the American government when it comes to spending money they don't have and trying to force their agendas on everyone, regardless of the popular opinion...

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Border security is non existent in The EU.

[Depicus]

49 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

Border security is non existent in The EU.

And fraud is rife, multiple parliaments and failures to reform the CAP and CFP are all valid reasons to leave the EU. Sadly I didn't hear these as reasons once, just some ugly xenophobic rhetoric and untruths about democracy and sovereignty. Sad but at least now we can have a free Scotland hopefully. 

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Just now, Depicus said:

And fraud is rife, multiple parliaments and failures to reform the CAP and CFP are all valid reasons to leave the EU. Sadly I didn't hear these as reasons once, just some ugly xenophobic rhetoric and untruths about democracy and sovereignty. Sad but at least now we can have a free Scotland hopefully. 

Does not Scotland want to break away from The UK?

[Depicus]

Just now, Gary7 said:

Does not Scotland want to break away from The UK?

Yes from England which invaded Scotland in 1707

[Paul1979UK]

4 hours ago, Mando said:

its also being investigated for fraudulent signatures.  3.2million signatures is decent, but not when you then take into account the other 61 million who have not signed it, when it hits 33 million signatures it could have been viable (to a point) BEFORE the result. 24 signatures signed it before the result....24! 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

 

the petition is a waste of time, change the parameters on a referendum that has already passed......crazy thought.

 

Dont get me wrong i voted remain and feel strongly about it, but this petition is embarrassing, we all have to now deal with it. Even its creator is now saying it has been hijacked after the result.

 

No point crying over spilt milk as my dear old grandma used to say  what is done is done, we need to move forward.

 

one thing positive, im so glad this has remained a civil debate between all here, kudos to us all

I don't know, if that petition keeps getting traction and gets anywhere like 10 or 20 million it would be difficult to ignore, as for fraudulent signatures, who knows but I do know that the leave camp would come up with something like that, fraud or no fraud.

[boo_star]

3 minutes ago, Paul1979 said:

I don't know, if that petition keeps getting traction and gets anywhere like 10 or 20 million it would be difficult to ignore, as for fraudulent signatures, who knows but I do know that the leave camp would come up with something like that, fraud or no fraud.

It would be very easy to ignore.   If they felt so strongly about it in the first place they would have voted in the referendum.

 

Perhaps it'll finally get people to realise that they can't be so complacent when it comes to their democratic right to vote.  If they sit on their rears expecting everyone else to do it, they might not like the result.

[+Random Stranger Subscriber¹]

BTW, people who think that Scotland can break away from UK, become independent and stay in EU?  think again.  Spain WILL VETO it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11054187/Spain-and-Belgium-would-veto-an-independent-Scotlands-EU-membership.html

 

article is a couple of years old, but nothing changed.  without Spain's approval, Scotland cannot join EU as independent country anyway. 

[boo_star]

5 hours ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

BTW, people who think that Scotland can break away from UK, become independent and stay in EU?  think again.  Spain WILL VETO it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11054187/Spain-and-Belgium-would-veto-an-independent-Scotlands-EU-membership.html

 

article is a couple of years old, but nothing changed.  without Spain's approval, Scotland cannot join EU as independent country anyway. 

It was never on the cards.  Scotland's economy is in worse shape than Greeces and I think the Eurozone countries have had enough of dealing with bailouts and such.

 

Your move Sturgeon.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

It's been a shambles from both sides.

It's a shame our politicians didn't give us a balanced view - to show that they've thought why people may vote for the opposite side to them.

 

I voted to leave, but nothing to do with migrants or whatever else a number of remain campaigners suggest.

 

The EU is a mess.  We joined before I was born but from what I understand, it was all about trading and prosperity.  Now it's nothing like that at all.  Our country may not produce much, but we buy an awful lot and therefore EU countries will still want to trade with us.  The housing market won't change - we're not building enough houses, put that together with landlords buying hundreds of houses (where I live, one person owns streets and streets of housing!), it's time that there were severe limits with that for starters.

 

I wouldn't care if Scotland left.  It'll be sad yes, but Nicola Strugeon is hell bent on being independent, yet she wants us to remain in the EU?  Double-standards right there.  The sooner England and Wales stop paying for their medical expenses and education, the better it would be for everyone.

 

The last thing that gets me, is the online petition to have a re-run.  Who decided that a turnout of less than 75% with a majority of less than 60% are the right numbers?  Will we continue having referendums until both those clauses are reached?  We could be here all decade doing that...

Edited June 27, 2016 by Sir Topham Hatt

[Depicus]

34 minutes ago, Sir Topham Hatt said:

It's been a shambles from both sides.

 

.....it's time that there were severe limits with that for starters

 

The last thing that gets me, is the online petition to have a re-run.  Who decided that a turnout of less than 75% with a majority of less than 60% are the right numbers?  Will we continue having referendums until both those clauses are reached?  We could be here all decade doing that...

Yes it has 

 

You are aware that that has nothing at all to do with the EU and is not going to change under a Conservative government or I suspect even a Labour government. If you were going to vote leave do it because of the stupidity of twin parliaments or the massive EU fraud or even the failure to update the CAP and CFP.

 

Yes the irony that the petition was set up by a leave campaigner before the vote. In a time where our country is in chaos and without political leadership that did make me smile

[dipsylalapo Supervisor]

Scotland were part of the EU as part of the UK. If the UK choose to leave they'll take Scotland with them. I'm assuming that Scotland won't just be able to stay on, they'll need to re-apply and meet the expectations set out by the EU. Is that right?

[MikeChipshop Member]

1 minute ago, dipsylalapo said:

Scotland were part of the EU as part of the UK. If the UK choose to leave they'll take Scotland with them. I'm assuming that Scotland won't just be able to stay on, they'll need to re-apply and meet the expectations set out by the EU. Is that right?

Yup, they'd also need all member states to agree to them joining and their terms are unlikely to be as good as those of the UK.

[+Random Stranger Subscriber¹]

16 minutes ago, dipsylalapo said:

Scotland were part of the EU as part of the UK. If the UK choose to leave they'll take Scotland with them. I'm assuming that Scotland won't just be able to stay on, they'll need to re-apply and meet the expectations set out by the EU. Is that right?

Yes. And spain and belgium are highly likely to veto it.

 

So it is all talk.

[Paul1979UK]

16 hours ago, boo_star said:

It would be very easy to ignore.   If they felt so strongly about it in the first place they would have voted in the referendum.

 

Perhaps it'll finally get people to realise that they can't be so complacent when it comes to their democratic right to vote.  If they sit on their rears expecting everyone else to do it, they might not like the result.

You can't ignore those kind of numbers in the same way Parliament cannot ignore the referendum result and that's probably why the country will break apart.

[Paul1979UK]

1 hour ago, Sir Topham Hatt said:

It's been a shambles from both sides.

It's a shame our politicians didn't give us a balanced view - to show that they've thought why people may vote for the opposite side to them.

 

I voted to leave, but nothing to do with migrants or whatever else a number of remain campaigners suggest.

 

The EU is a mess.  We joined before I was born but from what I understand, it was all about trading and prosperity.  Now it's nothing like that at all.  Our country may not produce much, but we buy an awful lot and therefore EU countries will still want to trade with us.  The housing market won't change - we're not building enough houses, put that together with landlords buying hundreds of houses (where I live, one person owns streets and streets of housing!), it's time that there were severe limits with that for starters.

 

I wouldn't care if Scotland left.  It'll be sad yes, but Nicola Strugeon is hell bent on being independent, yet she wants us to remain in the EU?  Double-standards right there.  The sooner England and Wales stop paying for their medical expenses and education, the better it would be for everyone.

 

The last thing that gets me, is the online petition to have a re-run.  Who decided that a turnout of less than 75% with a majority of less than 60% are the right numbers?  Will we continue having referendums until both those clauses are reached?  We could be here all decade doing that...

Actually the EU was always about economics and political integration even before the UK joined, in fact, they tried to integrate politically before economically but realised at the time that it was easier to integrate economically first then politically later, if anyone lied to us at the time that it was a economic union and only that then it was the UK government not the EU.

 

Also a lot of the problems we have in the UK have little to nothing to do with the EU, something we're going to find out now that we are leaving, I wonder who the next scapegoat going to be.

 

The reason Scotland wants independence is because they feel they are getting screwed by the south, it's not just Scotland that feels that way, a lot in the north of England feel the same way, we have some serious problems in the UK which have little to nothing to do with the EU, at least now that we are leaving the EU, we'll finally get that wake up call, it's just a shame that future generations have to pay the price of this.

[Paul1979UK]

28 minutes ago, MikeChipshop said:

Yup, they'd also need all member states to agree to them joining and their terms are unlikely to be as good as those of the UK.

I suspect Scotland will need to reapply to join the EU again but will likely have to join up to everything like the Euro, but I don't see much reason why they couldn't join quickly because most of the rules are already in place for them to join.

[MikeChipshop Member]

6 minutes ago, Paul1979 said:

I suspect Scotland will need to reapply to join the EU again but will likely have to join up to everything like the Euro, but I don't see much reason why they couldn't join quickly because most of the rules are already in place for them to join.

Problem is nothing moves quick in politics. It's not as simple as joining on existing rules as both the EU and Scotland will want to negotiate new terms that suit them. I agree you're probably right about the currency though.

[Paul1979UK]

11 minutes ago, MikeChipshop said:

Problem is nothing moves quick in politics. It's not as simple as joining on existing rules as both the EU and Scotland will want to negotiate new terms that suit them. I agree you're probably right about the currency though.

That's true but it definitely won't take as long as a new member would normally take, but I suspect it could all happen in 3 to 5 years of Scotland leaving the UK, probably sooner, either way, I think we've made a right mess pulling out of the EU and there could be a high price we could pay, the UK breaking apart, diminished influence around the world and possible less economic output and who knows what else but it's unlikely we're going to get good terms with the EU and I don't think we will with the US, they're not happy with what the UK done, if the EU plays hard ball with the UK, the US is likely going to aline with the EU then UK simple because of economics.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

3 hours ago, Paul1979 said:

The reason Scotland wants independence is because they feel they are getting screwed by the south, it's not just Scotland that feels that way, a lot in the north of England feel the same way...

Well let's just go down the America route.

Each "shire" can be an independent state, taxing it's own people, making up it's own rules, having different taxation rates too!

 

Solves all of this right?  But creates so many more problems.

[Paul1979UK]

2 hours ago, Sir Topham Hatt said:

Well let's just go down the America route.

Each "shire" can be an independent state, taxing it's own people, making up it's own rules, having different taxation rates too!

 

Solves all of this right?  But creates so many more problems.

It's possible but I don't see Scotland buying that, I think they've heard enough of the promises and lies told by the south to not trust anymore and an Independent Scotland gives them all that too with the option of being able to rejoin the EU, something the UK can't offer as it stands, also, many businesses in the UK could move to Scotland so they have access to the EU market, there is many benefits Scotland could get out of this.

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

13 minutes ago, Paul1979 said:

It's possible but I don't see Scotland buying that, I think they've heard enough of the promises and lies told by the south to not trust anymore and an Independent Scotland gives them all that too with the option of being able to rejoin the EU, something the UK can't offer as it stands, also, many businesses in the UK could move to Scotland so they have access to the EU market, there is many benefits Scotland could get out of this.

Except that Scotland will not likely get accepted into the EU. There are at least 2 member countries that have said they'd veto the nomination. The Scots really took the biggest hit in this vote and they don't have a clear path at this point.   

[PGHammer]

6 hours ago, Paul1979 said:

Actually the EU was always about economics and political integration even before the UK joined, in fact, they tried to integrate politically before economically but realised at the time that it was easier to integrate economically first then politically later, if anyone lied to us at the time that it was a economic union and only that then it was the UK government not the EU.

 

Also a lot of the problems we have in the UK have little to nothing to do with the EU, something we're going to find out now that we are leaving, I wonder who the next scapegoat going to be.

 

The reason Scotland wants independence is because they feel they are getting screwed by the south, it's not just Scotland that feels that way, a lot in the north of England feel the same way, we have some serious problems in the UK which have little to nothing to do with the EU, at least now that we are leaving the EU, we'll finally get that wake up call, it's just a shame that future generations have to pay the price of this.

Because the EC (and later EU)  was all about being a counterweight to a single nation - the United States of America.

Look at the negotiations within Europe that took place in the 1970s, and specifically during the Nixon Administration - and the TRADE negotiations with the United States over three things - aircraft (specifically Boeing), wine, and cheese.  Two nations pre-EU had issues with Boeing - France and Germany (and their specific national-flag carriers - Air France and Lufthansa).  France in particular had issues with the US over wine (sparkling wines in particular) and cheeses.  Even with the creation OF the EU, those same three issues are as contentious as ever.

[Louisifer]

As Cameron said earlier in parliament about Scotland "If you gained your independence in the last vote then you would already be out of the EU"

[Paul1979UK]

12 minutes ago, Zag L. said:

Except that Scotland will not likely get accepted into the EU. There are at least 2 member countries that have said they'd veto the nomination. The Scots really took the biggest hit in this vote and they don't have a clear path at this point.   

The EU will accept Scotland if Scotland pulls out of the UK, but it might not be on the same terms they have now, so they might need to join the Euro and so o, after all, I can't see the EU or any of it's members punishing Scotland when they wanted to remain, the veto you are talking about is just anger from some quarters, that will likely change.