Computer takes around 20 seconds before it fully starts booting.

[Emn1ty]

19 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Most GPU cards have a poorly designed cooling system. The intake is the hot air right next to the motherboard power circuits etc and then they push that hot air through a cooler to exhaust it outside the case. So take the side off your computer and blowing a fan at the GPU intake area is a quick way to test GPU cooling because in every case it will be a major improvement.

 

BTW what is the brand and model of your GPU card?

Gigabyte G1 GTX 1070

[Mando]

22 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Most GPU cards have a poorly designed cooling system. The intake is the hot air right next to the motherboard power circuits etc and then they push that hot air through a cooler to exhaust it outside the case. So take the side off your computer and blowing a fan at the GPU intake area is a quick way to test GPU cooling because in every case it will be a major improvement.

 

BTW what is the brand and model of your GPU card?

 

good points Dev, also bare in mind the initial Power on, most GPUs pull a full draw, as much as in full 3D mode in a lot of cases. also check Quickboot is enabled, as in not checking all system ram fully, ive seen that sometimes slow a post result also.

 

**edit** just saw you posted a 1070 card spec, what is the 12V Amps rating on your PSU? are you using any power adapters or pure PCI-e power plugs? 

[DevTech]

1 minute ago, Mando said:

good points Dev, also bare in mind the initial Power on, most GPUs pull a full draw, as much as in full 3D mode in a lot of cases. also check Quickboot is enabled, as in not checking all system ram fully, ive seen that sometimes slow a post result also.

You will have to review the last posts on page 2.

 

The post problem was fixed with a new power supply.

 

We are now debugging a mysteriously crashing GPU and your help will be most welcome!

 

[Mando]

On 5/11/2017 at 10:33 PM, Emn1ty said:

PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2, 80+ GOLD 750W

 

I am not hesitant on buying it, I just haven't had the time to go to the store and get one.

woah mate you dont need near that power for a 1070, heck im running a FE 1080ti on the sig rig with an EVGA 650W G2 43Amps on 12v rail. A 650 will happily power a 1070, multiple raid volumes and prettymuch anything you throw at it.

 

EVGA PSUS get a big thumbs up from me, just remember to upload your receipt and register it direct to EVGA, so you get the full 5 year warranty.

6 minutes ago, DevTech said:

You will have to review the last posts on page 2.

 

The post problem was fixed with a new power supply.

 

We are now debugging a mysteriously crashing GPU and your help will be most welcome!

 

ahh doh sorry OP  my bad.

 

lemme put thinking cap on.

 

what is the message with the BSOD? It isnt "KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERROR" by any chance is it? If so double and triple check the PCI-e connectors are snug both on the PSU (if its modular) and the card.

Make sure they are plugged into the PCI-e sockets on the modular PSU and not any of the devices sockets, on EVGAs they fit into all of them.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Mando

[Emn1ty]

1 hour ago, Mando said:

woah mate you dont need near that power for a 1070, heck im running a FE 1080ti on the sig rig with an EVGA 650W G2 43Amps on 12v rail. A 650 will happily power a 1070, multiple raid volumes and prettymuch anything you throw at it.

I merely bought it cause it's what I had previously, though I could return it for a lower power one now that I know what the issue is and save myself some money.

 

1 hour ago, Mando said:

ahh doh sorry OP  my bad.

 

lemme put thinking cap on.

 

what is the message with the BSOD? It isnt "KERNEL_DATA_INPAGE_ERROR" by any chance is it? If so double and triple check the PCI-e connectors are snug both on the PSU (if its modular) and the card.

Make sure they are plugged into the PCI-e sockets on the modular PSU and not any of the devices sockets, on EVGAs they fit into all of them.

That wasn't the error, but it was something similar. The error I got (which I can't remember and appears to not be in my search history) led me to the /scannow command which turned up no problems. I can however attempt to swap the old PSU in and make sure they are connected properly and if all works as normal then I might not need a new PSU at all.

[Emn1ty]

So I tried to reproduce the issue with 3DMark, and got it reproduced. I also logged the system status with Open Hardware Monitor.

Open Hardware Monitor Log

 

Event Report from Windows 10

 

[DevTech]

1 hour ago, Emn1ty said:

So I tried to reproduce the issue with 3DMark, and got it reproduced. I also logged the system status with Open Hardware Monitor.

Open Hardware Monitor Log

 

Event Report from Windows 10

 

 

I'm not sure what you think you are seeing.

 

Most likely you have one or more hardware issues that are causing software to fail.

 

[Emn1ty]

9 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I'm not sure what you think you are seeing.

 

Most likely you have one or more hardware issues that are causing software to fail.

 

I'm not seeing anything specific, just trying to gather information to point me in the right direction (with help from others).

After several more tests with 3DMark whilst downclocking my gpu with MSI Afterburner (though the gpu didn't seem to be obeying those changes very well) I was presented another BSOD with a different error reading "video scheduler internal error". Not sure if this is a result of downclocking or a result of a slowly dying GPU.

 

This computer has been giving me trouble since day one, and I'm kind of at my wits end as to why I'm getting so many problems with presumably brand new hardware.

[DevTech]

6 minutes ago, Emn1ty said:

I'm not seeing anything specific, just trying to gather information to point me in the right direction (with help from others).

After several more tests with 3DMark whilst downclocking my gpu with MSI Afterburner (though the gpu didn't seem to be obeying those changes very well) I was presented another BSOD with a different error reading "video scheduler internal error". Not sure if this is a result of downclocking or a result of a slowly dying GPU.

 

This computer has been giving me trouble since day one, and I'm kind of at my wits end as to why I'm getting so many problems with presumably brand new hardware.

It does not feel to me like there is any problem with your GPU. BTW slowing down the RAM in the card is probably more useful as a test.

 

You have brand new hardware all around so the most likely culprits are initially defective components and incompatibilities between specific components. I have seen hardware incompatibilities that end up only being repairable by swapping good hardware into computers where it wants to work. Other times a BIOS update or system update does the trick. Almost never will it be a video device driver issue due to the fact there are only NVIDIA and AMD so the telemetry those guys have is insanely huge - no video problem stays hidden to AMD and NVIDIA.

 

One area to watch closely will be any sort of chipset/cpu drivers or utils from AMD to fix issues in their new Rizen stuff. In the past that sort of thing has appeared in the AMD forums well before it gets pushed out as an update from Microsoft.

 

Also make sure your BIOS mode is Manual and you have a reasonable idea of what settings to change by reading the manual etc. Try running the PCIe bus at 99 instead of 100 to make sure it is not being auto overclocked. Also slowing down the system RAM about 30% during the period of solving this problem is a good idea. Underclocking the CPU by 20% for a while is also useful to eliminate auto settings in the BIOS.

 

[Mando]

bit of a curveball, but is your PC connected to a surge protected socket at all? 

21 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

I merely bought it cause it's what I had previously, though I could return it for a lower power one now that I know what the issue is and save myself some money.

 

That wasn't the error, but it was something similar. The error I got (which I can't remember and appears to not be in my search history) led me to the /scannow command which turned up no problems. I can however attempt to swap the old PSU in and make sure they are connected properly and if all works as normal then I might not need a new PSU at all.

dont get me wrong, its a cracking PSU the EVGA, a bit of overkill for the 1070 but a good PSU.

 

I never scrimp on the PSU on a game srig, its the heart of the system, good stable clean power.

[Emn1ty]

1 hour ago, Mando said:

bit of a curveball, but is your PC connected to a surge protected socket at all? 

It is connected to a surge protected power strip.

 

11 hours ago, DevTech said:

It does not feel to me like there is any problem with your GPU. BTW slowing down the RAM in the card is probably more useful as a test.

You have brand new hardware all around so the most likely culprits are initially defective components and incompatibilities between specific components. I have seen hardware incompatibilities that end up only being repairable by swapping good hardware into computers where it wants to work.

First thing I'm going to try is putting my old GTX 770 in and see if I get similar crashes. That should rule out the PSU pretty quickly.

 

Quote

Other times a BIOS update or system update does the trick. Almost never will it be a video device driver issue due to the fact there are only NVIDIA and AMD so the telemetry those guys have is insanely huge - no video problem stays hidden to AMD and NVIDIA.

I will check for another bios update for the motherboard and drivers for the chipset. I agree it could just be new hardware, but seeing as searches are pulling up topics from Jan/Apr this year I feel this is something that's already been fixed or is a different issue entirely.

 

Quote

Also make sure your BIOS mode is Manual and you have a reasonable idea of what settings to change by reading the manual etc. Try running the PCIe bus at 99 istead of 100 to make sure it is not being auto overclocked. Also slowing down the system RAM about 30% during the period of solving this problem is a good idea. Underclocking the CPU by 20% for a while is also useful to eliminate auto settings in the BIOS.

I'll look at how to accomplish these things. While I am not new to building computers, I am new to having such obscure and difficult to diagnose problems. It may seem like common sense to some people but I've never had to deal with this kind of thing in previous builds. It's all new territory as I typically don't like messing with anything; preferring to leave it stock.

[Mockingbird]

Beta BIOS 1.62 for the MSI B350 Tomahawk fixes the long POST time.

[Emn1ty]

So, I think I figured out the problem. My RAM was not properly clocked. I change a setting to a preset of 2666MHz and now the 3DMark benchmark passes. Am going to install the most recent gfx drivers after setting a restore point and run another benchmark to see if it's still stable.

 

That took a long time, and it was definitely something stupid simple.

[DevTech]

2 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

So, I think I figured out the problem. My RAM was not properly clocked. I change a setting to a preset of 2666MHz and now the 3DMark benchmark passes. Am going to install the most recent gfx drivers after setting a restore point and run another benchmark to see if it's still stable.

 

That took a long time, and it was definitely something stupid simple.

May 24: "It does not feel to me like there is any problem with your GPU. BTW slowing down the RAM in the card is probably more useful as a test."

 

Modern GPU RAM has almost no headroom. And very little effect on real world performance either. My standard advice is always run GPU RAM at stock and if the card is "factory overclocked" just set the stupid mild RAM overclock back to stock speeds anyways.

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

Might be a dumb suggestion, but have you disabled devices on the motherboard you aren't using, specifically the onboard GPU?

 

I have a mobo from 2013 (Asus H87-Plus) and I get to Windows Desktop in around 5 secs. I haven't configured any RAM settings (all auto) for the 16GB I have

[DevTech]

1 minute ago, Steven P. said:

Might be a dumb suggestion, but have you disabled devices on the motherboard you aren't using, specifically the onboard GPU?

 

I have a mobo from 2013 (Asus H87-Plus) and I get to Windows Desktop in around 5 secs. I haven't configured any RAM settings (all auto) for the 16GB I have

He is talking about the RAM on his NVIDIA 1070 video card.

 

His boot problem was solved by a replacing a power supply which then allowed him to focus on a GPU problem. In some ideal world, I guess this would have properly been separated into two forum threads.

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

Just now, DevTech said:

He is talking about the RAM on his NVIDIA 1070 video card.

 

His boot problem was solved by a replacing a power supply which then allowed him to focus on a GPU problem. In some ideal world, I guess this would have properly been separated into two forum threads.

 

Ah right cheers! I have a 1050Ti GTX and it doesn't require additional power connectors, well happy with it!

[Emn1ty]

8 hours ago, DevTech said:

May 24: "It does not feel to me like there is any problem with your GPU. BTW slowing down the RAM in the card is probably more useful as a test."

 

Modern GPU RAM has almost no headroom. And very little effect on real world performance either. My standard advice is always run GPU RAM at stock and if the card is "factory overclocked" just set the stupid mild RAM overclock back to stock speeds anyways.

 

The thing is, I had tried downclocking the ram to no effect.. However, upon selecting a preset in the BIOS for the ram at 2666MHz it's now working. It was sort of just a shot in the dark but it seems to have worked. Was able to play Mass Effect for about an hour and a half with no crashing.

 

I apologize if I took longer to get to the bottom of this issue than expected, while I have been trying to fix this issue I've not been able to give it my full attention for some time. Most of it has been restricted to tinkering here or there and since I work full time writing and designing software my mind isn't always able to transfer from 9 hours of code to another 2-3 hours of troubleshooting a computer in the evening. Sometimes I just want to turn my brain off.

[DevTech]

3 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

The thing is, I had tried downclocking the ram to no effect.. However, upon selecting a preset in the BIOS for the ram at 2666MHz it's now working. It was sort of just a shot in the dark but it seems to have worked. Was able to play Mass Effect for about an hour and a half with no crashing.

 

I apologize if I took longer to get to the bottom of this issue than expected, while I have been trying to fix this issue I've not been able to give it my full attention for some time. Most of it has been restricted to tinkering here or there and since I work full time writing and designing software my mind isn't always able to transfer from 9 hours of code to another 2-3 hours of troubleshooting a computer in the evening. Sometimes I just want to turn my brain off.

Actually, it's unclear whether you have been talking about the RAM on your 1070 or your main system RAM on the mobo.

 

I have been talking about the GDDR5 RAM on the GPU NVIDIA 1070.

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

I have the  Kingston HyperX Fury 16 GB DIMM DDR3-1600 2x8GB my Asus H87-Plus BIOS says they are rated at 1600Mhz but look at what CPU-Z says?

 

[Emn1ty]

2 hours ago, DevTech said:

Actually, it's unclear whether you have been talking about the RAM on your 1070 or your main system RAM on the mobo.

 

I have been talking about the GDDR5 RAM on the GPU NVIDIA 1070.

 

I have been talking about the system ram to clarify. If I was talking about my gpu's ram I'd have specifically made that statement, however I am sorry for any confusion.

[DevTech]

8 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

I have been talking about the system ram to clarify. If I was talking about my gpu's ram I'd have specifically made that statement, however I am sorry for any confusion.

Clarity is always good.

 

GPU RAM is tightly speced and is completely NOT worth altering.

 

The system RAM will work with a large overclock depending on the RAM and also a huge underclock. For RAM speed to be changed it must run asynchronously to the FSB speed, otherwise there will be horrible results. On a modern CPU, async RAM is just fine. Also on a modern CPU, RAM speed is not much of a performance factor due to extensive CPU RAM caching, so it's always a good idea to avoid pushing RAM to favor increased system stability instead, particularly as RAM of 32 gigs and 64 gigs is getting more common.

 

You must have failed to put the mobo BIOS in full manual so when you changed the RAM speed the FSB was also being altered or more likely the reverse where you were altering the FSB speed and seeing a corresponding RAM speed change without noticing the other instabilities being introduced. Something along those lines.

 

The current stock settings should work out just fine.

 

[Paradoxxical]

I found this, I think a bios update would help now, I know this is for the Mortar version, but check for the tomahawk one.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

Why do some computers seem to do nothing at boot up?

 

I have one that is pretty good (I don't even see the POST screen, it just gets straight to the logo).

 

I have another one (with 6 hard drives attached) that takes longer (okay, that's clear, it's checking the drives), but then regularly has a black screen with a flashing dash at the top left.  The screen sort of "blinks" a few times, then it gets to the logo.

[Steven P. Administrators]

1 hour ago, Sir Topham Hatt said:

Why do some computers seem to do nothing at boot up?

 

I have one that is pretty good (I don't even see the POST screen, it just gets straight to the logo).

 

I have another one (with 6 hard drives attached) that takes longer (okay, that's clear, it's checking the drives), but then regularly has a black screen with a flashing dash at the top left.  The screen sort of "blinks" a few times, then it gets to the logo.

Is network boot enabled for that PC? Or maybe just check the boot order?