London fire: Six killed as Grenfell Tower engulfed

[techbeck]

Six people have been confirmed dead after a huge fire raged through the night at a west London tower block, and police expect that number to rise.

 

Eyewitnesses described people trapped in the burning Grenfell Tower, in north Kensington, screaming for help and yelling for their children to be saved.

 

Firefighters rescued "large numbers", but London Mayor Sadiq Khan said "a lot" of people were unaccounted for.

 

The 24-storey block, which is still on fire, looks at risk of collapsing.

 

During the night, eyewitnesses said they saw lights - thought to be mobile phones or torches - flashing at the top of the block of flats, and trapped residents coming to their windows - some holding children.

 

It is understood that "several hundred" people would have been in the block when the fire broke out shortly after midnight, most of them sleeping.

 

More....

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40269625

[FloatingFatMan]

Latest figures:

 

74 being treated in hospital, 20 of those in critical condition.

6 confirmed dead.

120 flats/apartments in the building.

Unknown number still unaccounted for.

 

That death toll WILL rise sadly.  I just hope those that lost their lives did so from the smoke rather than the flames... 

 

[hagjohn]

Just absolutely terrible. Praying that they didn't suffer.

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

58 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Latest figures:

 

74 being treated in hospital, 20 of those in critical condition.

6 confirmed dead.

120 flats/apartments in the building.

Unknown number still unaccounted for.

 

That death toll WILL rise sadly.  I just hope those that lost their lives did so from the smoke rather than the flames... 

 

I assume it is an old tower. Here in Canada most building are new and designed so that it is almost impossible for the fire to spread. The way the air flows into each unit from the common areas and not the other way round and the sprinkler systems to stop the fire immediately. 

 

 

Terrible way to die

[FloatingFatMan]

1 minute ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

I assume it is an old tower. Here in Canada most building are new and designed so that it is almost impossible for the fire to spread. The way the air flows into each unit from the common areas and not the other way round and the sprinkler systems to stop the fire immediately. 

 

 

Terrible way to die

 

Looks like a 60's/70's build.

 

The building had a refit last year and was certified as up to code, HOWEVER, from experience I know that when it's hot, residents in these places have a really bad habit of propping open fire doors to improve cooling, not realising that they're also creating a wind tunnel that'll spread flames in minutes.  

 

I'm absolutely NOT saying that happened here, but fire doors are meant to retard fire & smoke for at least 30 minutes and that didn't appear to happen here...  There's also some reports that the plastic outer cladding the building was covered with last year may have caused the flames to spread rapidly up the outside of the structure.

 

It'll be several days at least before they know the causes though, so anything here or anywhere else is pure conjecture.

 

My thoughts are with those who lost their lives, the survivors, and their families.

 

[The Evil Overlord]

1 minute ago, E.worm Jimmy said:

I assume it is an old tower. Here in Canada most building are new and designed so that it is almost impossible for the fire to spread. The way the air flows into each unit from the common areas and not the other way round and the sprinkler systems to stop the fire immediately. 

 

 

Terrible way to die

By UK standards, no it's a 1974 construction, 24 floor building, reasonably modern.... I've been following this on the news, and the consensus seems to follow the train of thought - that the materials used in or behind the facia panels were not up to fire safety regulations, some residents have alikened it to plastic.

[FloatingFatMan]

There's also reports that residents in the area had raised fire risk and other safety concerns for the building with the local council, and that their concerns were ignored.  If true, there's going to be hell to pay for this one...

[Dick Montage]

Been in London all morning, terrible thing to know is happening so close

[FloatingFatMan]

12 now confirmed dead, with the number expected to rise.

Reports of people jumping from windows, others throwing their children from them, nothing about their fate.

One story about a woman getting people's attention as she prepared to drop her baby from the 10th floor. Thankfully, a man was able to catch it as it fell.

 

This is absolutely horrific.

 

[techbeck]

4 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

12 now confirmed dead, with the number expected to rise.

Reports of people jumping from windows, others throwing their children from them, nothing about their fate.

One story about a woman getting people's attention as she prepared to drop her baby from the 10th floor. Thankfully, a man was able to catch it as it fell.

 

This is absolutely horrific.

 

Sadly, jumping is probably a better way to die and mercy for the kids.

[margrave]

This is so horrible. Absolutely terrible!

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

It's heartbreaking  I'm lost for words.

 

[YouTube]

[grunger106]

From the residents association blog in November 2016

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

 

[FloatingFatMan]

... It's almost like a prophecy, isn't it?

 

[FloatingFatMan]

Quote

London fire: Grenfell Tower cladding 'linked to other fires'

 

The cladding installed on Grenfell Tower was also used on other buildings that have been hit by fires around the world, the BBC has learned.

 

The exterior cladding, added in 2015, had a polyethylene - or plastic - core instead of an even more fireproof alternative, BBC Newsnight understands.

 

High-rise buildings in France, the UAE and Australia that had similar cladding have all been hit by fires that spread.

Rydon, which completed the renovations, said the work met all fire regulations.

 

They also insisted that, building control and safety standards had been fully met.

And Harley Facades, the company that fitted the panels to the building, said in a statement: "At this time, we are not aware of any link between the fire and the exterior cladding to the tower."

 

The west London tower block was refurbished at a cost of almost £9m.

 

The exterior of the 1970s-built tower was modernised with replacement windows, while additional homes were added using vacant space in the building.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40283980

 

It doesn't really matter if this stuff DID meet regs or not, now that THIS has been dug up, in the "Court of Public Opinion", this company is now toast... 

[The Evil Overlord]

I was thinking, as I am no way an expert, but if the fire was accelerated due to the materials used in the cladding....

Does anyone remember the fireproofed airline seating scandal back in the '80's or possibly '90's, when fireproof materials passed fire safety tests in lab conditions, but failed dramatically in an actual airliner fire..?

If the materials used here passed lab tests only, then a new and overhauled system of lab testing should be more critical moving forward.

[MikeChipshop Member]

2 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40283980

 

It doesn't really matter if this stuff DID meet regs or not, now that THIS has been dug up, in the "Court of Public Opinion", this company is now toast... 

Exactly. We got to remember that at some point in time Asbestos met "the regs" too!

[grunger106]

Like you say, my guess is the stuff does meet the regs, but the regs are wrong....

[Skiver Veteran]

Such a horrendous thing to happen, I can't bare to even think what people have been going through to think that throwing children out of windows was the only and best choice. 

I'm just glad that so far the thing is still standing, I can't imagine how much worse this would have been if this thing had collapsed whilst firefighters were working to get this under control.

[The Evil Overlord]

13 minutes ago, Skiver said:

Such a horrendous thing to happen, I can't bare to even think what people have been going through to think that throwing children out of windows was the only and best choice. 

I'm just glad that so far the thing is still standing, I can't imagine how much worse this would have been if this thing had collapsed whilst firefighters were working to get this under control.

I understand what you're saying, and at this point, I'm just stating the obvious... We have had a very brutal history lesson of what happens in a tower collapse.

[FloatingFatMan]

Maybe it's time we stopped building things so tall that fire services can't reach them?  We could also take a leaf from the USA's books, and start installing external fire escapes as well as internal ones.  It would't have helped on this one where the fire was both inside and out, but it'd help future fires.

 

I think we also need to seriously look at some of these really old fire traps and demolish the bloody things...

 

[TheReaperMan]

12 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

I think we also need to seriously look at some of these really old fire traps and demolish the bloody things...

 

I could not agree more, But the current problem is we have no place to put the people who live in them  if we demolish them.

 

The thing that gets me,  if part of that refit they had fitted sprinklers at a cost of about £1200 per flat this may not have happened.

[Skiver Veteran]

12 minutes ago, TheReaperMan said:

I could not agree more, But the current problem is we have no place to put the people who live in them  if we demolish them.

 

The thing that gets me,  if part of that refit they had fitted sprinklers at a cost of about £1200 per flat this may not have happened.

Unpopular statement time but that's a cost of £144K for a flat like this to install sprinklers - where is that money coming from? I don't know the area well but I suspect this isn't the only block of flats that would need it. If you do one you have to do them all. I'm not for one second suggesting we can put prices on a single person life, never mind the 12 confirmed that were lost in this fire. However, there needs to be money for this and quite simply we don't have the money for everything. If the money is spent here, it will take another 5 police officers off the street, or that Ambulance that needed to be replaced won't be, a school will be forced to remove Teaching Assistants from classrooms and the list goes on. 

 

I think the fire chief has also stated that sprinklers would not have likely helped a fire like this. There will be plenty if's and buts about that statement and at the end of the day it's too late and no-one will truly know whether he is right or not but I'd hope he would have a good enough idea to be saying things like that publically. 

[TheReaperMan]

I can see that point you are making and agree. You could look at it this way if the UK government had not have called a election that was not needed at this time, the money they wasted could have been used to fund this and other things.

[FloatingFatMan]

Whilst I agree that the money has to come from somewhere, but with the governments building program, I think they really DO need to look at these old tower blocks and get rid of them.  People should not be packed into buildings like sardines.  I know there are space issues, but this just isn't good enough.  Firefighters simply can't reach above approx 10th floor with their equipment in an emergency, so anyone above that limit must either get themselves out, or are as good as dead.