Playboy to Feature Its First Transgender Playmate

[techbeck]

5 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

I feel as if we will go no where with this, you have something personal vested in this and are only seeing it one way. Not once has anyone in here been derogatory, vicious or downright rude. I am sorry if we offend you, or your girlfriend, for not being attracted to trans people. It is just not my cup of tea, but I wont put down someone who finds trans people attractive or has a relationship with them. It is somewhat offensive that you feel the need to label anyone with differentiating views, a bigot or not accepting of a trans person. I might not find them attractive, but that doesn't make them less of a person. I wish you the best in your endeavor, but I think it would benefit you to look at what some of us are saying with open ears.

2 minutes ago, -T- said:

Nothing in this thread has anything to do with being attracted to trans women, that's nowhere near the point. The point is that trans women are women.

 

While some buy PB for the articles, many by for the pictures.  So yes, it has something to do with being attracted to what you are looking at.

[DConnell Member]

2 minutes ago, -T- said:

If you refuse to accept their identity, you are not treating them with respect. It's not rocket science

So if I don't accept as trans woman as someone I "ought to" be attracted to, that's disrespectful? That's the context here. If I met you and your spouse for lunch, I wouldn't launch into a diatribe about her true gender - that would be disrespectful. I'd just have a nice lunch with some new friends. End of story.

 

But if someone came onto me and made it known that they were trans, I would ask her to stop, because I wouldn't be interested. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have a drink as friends, just that I'm not interested in anything more than that.

[HawkMan]

18 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Science makes it clear that if you are born a male, you are going to remain male regardless of what you identify as or how you change your body physically and emotionally. 

I don’t have an issue with that, identify with whatever makes you feel most comfortable, but it is what it is. Genetics don’t lie. 

Seeing as you don't seem to understand how genes work, you're right though. genes don't lie. just lie when they tell the organ that defines your whole identity that you're a female, and the genes who control your body decided to cross the wires and decided to make it male. 

[techbeck]

1 minute ago, domboy said:

Acceptance of what?? That a transgender person is a human being and should be treated with decency and respect? Done.

Yes, that is what I meant.  Many people are not accepting on what they consider outside the norm. 

[+Raze Subscriber²]

Bottom line is Playboy will publish what they choose.  And they will also analyze responses to see how the consumer is accepting or rejecting what they are doing.  Playboy has been pushing the envelope since their inception, no one should be that surprised at what they publish.  If buyers/subscribers are unhappy, vote with your wallet, they will pay attention to that and, as with any business, they'll adapt to do their best to fulfill the customers wishes.

 

 

[adrynalyne]

3 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Seeing as you don't seem to understand how genes work, you're right though. genes don't lie. just lie when they tell the organ that defines your whole identity that you're a female, and the genes who control your body decided to cross the wires and decided to make it male. 

I don’t understand? Buddy, feel

free to prove me wrong. I’m not the only one in this thread who thinks you don’t understand, rather than me. 

[HawkMan]

13 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

So are you trying to claim that transgender men or women are genetic abnormalities now? I thought transgender men/women wasn’t a medical issue. Because what you listed are exactly that. 

 

Heheh. 

Being genetically different doesn't make them abnormalities, don't be obtuse. 

 

6 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

And this is where we disagree. If that makes me a bigot in your opinion, there isn't much I can say to change your mind. If you find that offensive, I can't really help you with that.

 

 

They are though. I do think they should if they plan to form a relationship with people inform them of how they were born, not because it makes them less, but because for some people while the physical attraction is there it would affect the attraction beyond that and would limit them in certain important ways. 

[Circaflex]

2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

They are though.

Except they aren't though, that is your opinion just as I have mine. In my opinion, which seems to be shared by many here, is that if you are born with a penis you are indeed a male and if you are born with a vagina, you are a female. Chopping it off and replacing it with something else, wont change the fact that this person was born with a penis. If that makes me a bigot or "old fashioned" with no sense of moving forward in society, then so be it.

[techbeck]

Good site/read if anyone is interested....

 

https://www.transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people

[HawkMan]

1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

I don’t understand? Buddy, feel

free to prove me wrong. I’m not the only one in this thread who thinks you don’t understand, rather than me. 

Excplain that to actual geneticists then. 

 

I suppose you don't believe that sexuality is genetic either then ? despite the gene in the genome being known, and the fact it happens in every animal and despite the progress we have, it's not something anyone would choose. 

[adrynalyne]

2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Being genetically different doesn't make them abnormalities, don't be obtuse. 

 

They are though. I do think they should if they plan to form a relationship with people inform them of how they were born, not because it makes them less, but because for some people while the physical attraction is there it would affect the attraction beyond that and would limit them in certain important ways. 

Your opinions don’t change medical

science, sorry bro. 

1 minute ago, HawkMan said:

Excplain that to actual geneticists then. 

 

I suppose you don't believe that sexuality is genetic either then ? despite the gene in the genome being known, and the fact it happens in every animal and despite the progress we have, it's not something anyone would choose. 

When I say genetic, I am discussing chromosomes and you know it. Don’t try to deflect. 

 

Nice proof, bro. LOL. 

[HawkMan]

1 minute ago, Circaflex said:

Except they aren't though, that is your opinion just as I have mine.

They check "Female" on the checkbox on every form, and when you have sex with one, you wouldn't be able to tell. It's not my cup of tea. ut if you are attracted to someone, both physically and romantically and you don't plan to have your own children. and you fall madly in love.  what would it matter to you if she was different before a surgery in a physical way when mentally she was always who she is, a woman. 

[adrynalyne]

2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Excplain that to actual geneticists then. 

 

I suppose you don't believe that sexuality is genetic either then ? despite the gene in the genome being known, and the fact it happens in every animal and despite the progress we have, it's not something anyone would choose. 

Nice defection. You can’t prove it yourself so you push it off elsewhere. 

[HawkMan]

1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

Your opinions don’t change medical

science, sorry bro. 

When I say genetic, I am discussing chromosomes and you know it. Don’t try to deflect. 

 

Nice proof, bro. LOL. 

You keep returnign to chromosomes as if a chromosome alone defines everything in your body. you keep defl3cting and not answering the question in the first question to you, instead deflecting by repeating Chromosomes ad nauseum as if that magically changes facts in how genes and the brain works. 

you also didn't actually answer the questions to wich you just replied. 

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, HawkMan said:

You keep returnign to chromosomes as if a chromosome alone defines everything in your body. you keep defl3cting and not answering the question in the first question to you, instead deflecting by repeating Chromosomes ad nauseum as if that magically changes facts in how genes and the brain works. 

you also didn't actually answer the questions to wich you just replied. 

It doesn’t define everything, nor did I say it did. It does define gender. 

 

 

[dead.cell]

Just now, HawkMan said:

Excplain that to actual geneticists then. 

 

I suppose you don't believe that sexuality is genetic either then ? despite the gene in the genome being known, and the fact it happens in every animal and despite the progress we have, it's not something anyone would choose. 

So if someone transitions to a man, then back to a woman, what does that say about their genes then? Or were they just confused? Gay/lesbian friends of mine have had "moments" (read: years) of confusion, where they tried to identify whether they preferred men or women. Some went back and forth for some years, before finally deciding. Some decide later on in life, hence the stories of women who find their boyfriends dump them because they feel they're gay now. That isn't a knock against these people either, but clearly there's more to it.

 

1 minute ago, HawkMan said:

They check "Female" on the checkbox on every form, and when you have sex with one, you wouldn't be able to tell. It's not my cup of tea. ut if you are attracted to someone, both physically and romantically and you don't plan to have your own children. and you fall madly in love.  what would it matter to you if she was different before a surgery in a physical way when mentally she was always who she is, a woman. 

And this goes back to why any of this gets talked about. There are many people who are dead set in raising a family, who want to have their own kids. Maybe some will adopt or opt for a surrogate, but because this preference for real men or women exists, there is no reason to assume that people are "bigots" for having preferences, standards, or goals in mind.

[HawkMan]

Just now, adrynalyne said:

It doesn’t define everything, nor did I say it did. It does define gender. 

 

 

And the chromosomes include many genes and genome markers beyond a simple X and Y. Just like it was pointed out earlier. there are even women and men that have the chromosomes of the opposite sex.  Genes in them include the genes for same sex or bi sexual preference. and as all evidence suggest in genetic research. people being born in the wrong body. where the brain is wired for female, and thinks it should be in a female body but isn't, 

[sc302 Veteran]

Genetics are traits that are passed down from generation to generation. What exactly are trans genetics being that it is a relatively new thing we are experiencing.

 

Feelings are not genetics. Identifying with the opposite gender is not genetics. It may be who you are and what you perceive yourself, but make no mistake it is not genetics.

 

[HawkMan]

2 minutes ago, dead.cell said:

So if someone transitions to a man, then back to a woman, what does that say about their genes then? Or were they just confused? Gay/lesbian friends of mine have had "moments" (read: years) of confusion, where they tried to identify whether they preferred men or women. Some went back and forth for some years, before finally deciding. Some decide later on in life, hence the stories of women who find their boyfriends dump them because they feel they're gay now. That isn't a knock against these people either, but clearly there's more to it.

 

And this goes back to why any of this gets talked about. There are many people who are dead set in raising a family, who want to have their own kids. Maybe some will adopt or opt for a surrogate, but because this preference for real men or women exists, there is no reason to assume that people are "bigots" for having preferences, standards, or goals in mind.

Sexuality today is something that doesn't necessarily have to be defined as hetero or gay. most of your friends who go back and forth are probably bi. or they love people regardless of sex, but society has told them they have to be straight or gay, or more recently bi. 

 

2 minutes ago, sc302 said:

Genetics are traits that are passed down from generation to generation. What exactly are trans genetics being that it is a relatively new thing we are experiencing.

Feelings are not genetics.

Don't confuse feelings, as in love, hate, jealouosy, with the brain being wired for being male or female. there are differences between male and female brains in many levels, but on this we're talking about a purely physical level of "This isn't right. these are the wrong parts I'm talking to"

[Circaflex]

13 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

They check "Female" on the checkbox on every form, and when you have sex with one, you wouldn't be able to tell. It's not my cup of tea. ut if you are attracted to someone, both physically and romantically and you don't plan to have your own children. and you fall madly in love.  what would it matter to you if she was different before a surgery in a physical way when mentally she was always who she is, a woman. 

It still does not make them a biological female. Can they produce a child through their womb? Surely it would matter if you are wanting to produce your own offspring.

[HawkMan]

9 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

It still does not make them a biological female. Can they produce a child through their womb? Surely it would matter if you are wanting to produce your own offspring.

Never said they could. in fact I specifically pointed out they can't.  But they're still female and women, even if you don't want them to be. 

Or are you saying all the cis-females who can't have children aren't genetically female either?  I know you're not, and yes there's a difference. but they're still female. and you have even have drooled to some of them in porn without knowing it, because you can't really tell. 

[-T- Member]

11 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

It still does not make them a biological female. Can they produce a child through their womb? Surely it would matter if you are wanting to produce your own offspring.

Are infertile women any less biologically female? You know there are womb transplants being researched to make that argument moot. 

[sc302 Veteran]

Don't confuse feelings, as in love, hate, jealouosy, with the brain being wired for being male or female. there are differences between male and female brains in many levels, but on this we're talking about a purely physical level of "This isn't right. these are the wrong parts I'm talking to"

I can tell you by having children I fully understand being wired differently. The boys are completely different than the girl. They don’t identify as anything other than themselves.

Who or what they choose to be is their choice. But understand it is a choice. Genetics and biology has no choice, it is predetermined. How they chose to feel or what direction to take is up to them....right now they have no sexual direction. The girl likes racing cars, cheering with her friends (her choice, her friends were doing it, wouldn’t know anything about it if her friends didn’t say anything), plays with baby dolls (can’t get enough of them), and likes to really beat up the boys. The boys like video games.

The personality difference between the three is so night and day. She is a piece of work. The boys are docile in comparison. Everyone I talk to who have daughters and sons say the same thing, girls are a force to be reckoned with.

Believe me when I say I know girls are wired differently. But also believe that it is a choice of how to carry yourself and who or what you identify as. If it weren’t a choice there would be no trans.

[Emn1ty]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

Never said they could. in fact I specifically pointed out they can't.  But they're still female and women, even if you don't want them to be. 

Or are you saying all the cis-females who can't have children aren't genetically female either?  I know you're not, and yes there's a difference. but they're still female. and you have even have drooled to some of them in porn without knowing it, because you can't really tell. 

And this is where your statement falls apart. They're not trying to make them not female, nor are they saying they don't want them to be female. They're saying to them they are not female. That is an opinion, and does not qualify as bigotry. When it comes to a person's partner they should have every right to pick and choose for whatever reason they want, that is why it's about preference. You're twisting words here.

 

What they tick on forms is irrelevant here, what matters when it comes to who we are attracted to is entirely up to us.

 

I can not be attracted to trans women just as I can not be attracted to women with underbites, or who are overly skinny. These are not belittling reasons to not be attracted to them, they are simply preferences that I have. Many may think them superficial, what does an underbite have to do with them as a person? Nothing, to be frank. But how am I going to function in a relationship with someone if every single day I can't help but notice their underbite and it grates on me?

 

We would all love to live in some idealistic world where a person's mental identity supersedes all physical requirements. But at the end of the day in order to have a successful relationship with another person you have to be able to accept them mentally and physically. Or else it's a recipe for disaster.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Emn1ty

[techbeck]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

. It's not my cup of tea. ut if you are attracted to someone, both physically and romantically and you don't plan to have your own children. and you fall madly in love.  what would it matter to you if she was different before a surgery in a physical way when mentally she was always who she is, a woman. 

If they kept their change a secrete, would change how I think about them.  That is a big lie to get over.