No TPM? No Windows 11 for you!


Recommended Posts

55 minutes ago, Good Bot, Bad Bot said:

WTF? My AMD FX-8320 is not supported? Windows can't even read my TPM state. I have a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 R5 (rev. 1.0) systemboard and no secure boot options I can see. I have tried setting Windows 8 for OS type and disabling CSM but no luck.

 

The board was a good deal at the time but there has been a total of one BIOS update for it. 🙄

 

Anyone with suggestions would be welcome.

Yeah. Upgrade. 

6 hours ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

From your motherboard's manual


image.png.6637721045cb3314d54b0e0c5fca34af.png
 

I've got a i7 6700k, same Asus BIOS but that specific part of it is nowhere to be found.  And doing some searches online I can't find out if my CPU has PTT at all or not.   Since the options aren't there I'm guessing no, so I ordered a TPM chip in the end.

5 hours ago, ManMountain said:

A lot of focus on TPM 2.0, but not so much on the CPU's that are not supported in Windows 11.  

 

AMD supported CPU

Intel supported CPU

 

 

I think that list is more for anyone making/supporting systems at a retail/business level.  Older CPUs should run 11 just fine and I expect that list will grow over time.

  • Like 1

Found fTPM in the UEFI for my ASUS ROG STRIX Z390-H GAMING.  Buried under Advance settings - PCH-FW Configuration - TPM Device Selection - select Firmware TPM - save and reboot.  Passed the PC health check!

 

 

While my main desktop is compatible, I have two other desktops (and about 6 or 7 other lesser used systems) that aren't event close. One is a 4770k on an Asus ROG Maximus VI Gene and the other a 4790k Asus ROG Maximus VII Gene. Both have 32gb ram, 1TB SSDs and 2070s. Neither bios has anything even close to Intel PTT although even it it did, the CPU's themselves aren't on the list (or generationally close) so that's that.

 

One of these is my wife's main desktop (the 4790k) and she really likes how Win 11 looks so it appears that  Microsoft and PC builder consortium (Dell, HP, Lenovo) have won this round and I'll have to update her CPU/MBoard/Ram later this year. 

6 hours ago, Biscuits Brown said:

While my main desktop is compatible, I have two other desktops (and about 6 or 7 other lesser used systems) that aren't event close. One is a 4770k on an Asus ROG Maximus VI Gene and the other a 4790k Asus ROG Maximus VII Gene. Both have 32gb ram, 1TB SSDs and 2070s. Neither bios has anything even close to Intel PTT although even it it did, the CPU's themselves aren't on the list (or generationally close) so that's that.

 

One of these is my wife's main desktop (the 4790k) and she really likes how Win 11 looks so it appears that  Microsoft and PC builder consortium (Dell, HP, Lenovo) have won this round and I'll have to update her CPU/MBoard/Ram later this year. 

I'm in the same boat but with a newer 6700k but no PTT in the BIOS anywhere.  Asus couldn't be bothered to add it in I guess?

I found out I'm not compatible because of my CPU (too old), if you want to check yours :

Supported Intel Processors (Anything older than 8000 series not supported)

Supported AMD Processors

So someone posted that intels PTT (fTPM) needs CPUs with vPro support.  If that's the case then that would explain why my 6700k doesn't show any options for PTT in the BIOS.  Also why 7000 series CPUs aren't supported either because I just checked and the 7700k doesn't have vPro either.    

 

Oh well, I'll just stick with Windows 10  or see what happens with 11 later.  I still think you'll be able to install it just "unsupported" and a "at your own risk" type deal.   This system is 6yo though I've upgraded the GPU once to a 1070 so it's solid for my gaming needs.

 

It's looking like I'll have to retire the old i7 920 though, mostly because I want something that takes up less space than the mid-tower it has, it can still do it's task without issue though.

Hello,

 

Hypothetically speaking, parts of a motherboard design layout could be re-used to create multiple form-factors (ATX and mATX for example) or used across several chipsets (value-end to HEDT) and the manufacturer may have left the connector in place by accident. 

 

I would also wonder if the cost of removing the module header would be more than leaving it in place.  Motherboard manufacturing seems pretty automated, though, so the cost would be in the time and labor to reset manufacturing, not the costs of the pins and the shroud. 


Another possibility might be to provide support for a different type of TPM chip (e.g., something mandated by a government) that operates differently than the embedded type.

Anyways, those are just some reasons I came up with just off the top of my head.  I am not a crypto engineer, though, I do not know how likely any of these scenarios I mentioned are possible.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

 

  

On 24/06/2021 at 14:44, Steven P. said:

GIGABYTE_GC_TPM2_0_S@@gzzg37.jpg

 

I don't know, tell me why a motherboard would have a TPM 2.0 Module header if the board only supports CPUs where this is already built in?

 

Apparently Windows uses the TPM for a lot more features than BitLocker, Windows Hello, Secure Boot. But these are all enterprise features mostly: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/information-protection/tpm/tpm-recommendations

Interestingly if you read Microsoft's Minimum Hardware documentation for ecosystem partners, this states: "Upon approval from Microsoft, OEM systems for special purpose commercial systems, custom order, and customer systems with a custom image are not required to ship with a TPM support enabled".

 

So it seems like deploying Windows 11 with MDT (Microsoft Deployment Toolkit) to unsupported hardware is a scenario Windows 11 would work fine in, even if Microsoft are aiming for this to be the exception and not the norm.

 

With that in mind this should mean that Windows 11 will continue to work fine in the future once you bypass the installer check, since there will be 'officially supported' Windows 11 scenarios with no TPM.

 

One can hope anyway. Clearly security is the focus here, however given Windows 10 can work perfectly on Core2Duo hardware dating back to 2006, it seems a big leap to drop support for anything Intel before Coffee Lake (2017) and AMD before Ryzen 2000 (2018). For what the majority of people use a computer for these days a 10+ year old system with an SSD can still offer a really good experience.

5 hours ago, George P said:

So someone posted that intels PTT (fTPM) needs CPUs with vPro support.  If that's the case then that would explain why my 6700k doesn't show any options for PTT in the BIOS.  Also why 7000 series CPUs aren't supported either because I just checked and the 7700k doesn't have vPro either.    

 

Oh well, I'll just stick with Windows 10  or see what happens with 11 later.  I still think you'll be able to install it just "unsupported" and a "at your own risk" type deal.   This system is 6yo though I've upgraded the GPU once to a 1070 so it's solid for my gaming needs.

 

It's looking like I'll have to retire the old i7 920 though, mostly because I want something that takes up less space than the mid-tower it has, it can still do it's task without issue though.

vPro? I use PTT and I dont have vPro enabled, the CPU's are "eligible" but not using it

17 minutes ago, neufuse said:

vPro? I use PTT and I dont have vPro enabled, the CPU's are "eligible" but not using it

Well then it's just Asus not adding the option for my specific z170-a motherboard because it's not there anywhere.   And it's looking like a pain to get their TPM 2.0 chip at this point.

10 minutes ago, George P said:

Well then it's just Asus not adding the option for my specific z170-a motherboard because it's not there anywhere.   And it's looking like a pain to get their TPM 2.0 chip at this point.

Is there a "PCH-FW Configuration" entry in the "Advanced" section of the UEFI? The TPM setting for another asus Z170 model is there.

 

What's the BIOS version?

 

If it's completely missing, maybe try contacting asus support.

1 minute ago, eddman said:

Is there a "PCH-FW Configuration" entry in the "Advanced" section of the UEFI? The TPM setting for another asus Z170 model is there.

 

What's the BIOS version?

The BIOS is the newest one listed on their site for my board.

 

Z170-A BIOS 3802

 

As far as the PCH-FW Configuration option, I've looked and didn't see it though for the hell of it I could look again I guess.

28 minutes ago, George P said:

The BIOS is the newest one listed on their site for my board.

 

Z170-A BIOS 3802

 

As far as the PCH-FW Configuration option, I've looked and didn't see it though for the hell of it I could look again I guess.

It took me forever to find the PTT config on my ASUS board when I got it... wish they made stuff more clear for security settings my old MSI board flat out called it TPM Security made it easy

6 minutes ago, neufuse said:

It took me forever to find the PTT config on my ASUS board when I got it... wish they made stuff more clear for security settings my old MSI board flat out called it TPM Security made it easy

Yeah, so I dove back into bios to try and see one last time but nothing.  I just don't have PTT, so oh well.  I either get lucky and find a TPM chip to put in, or wait and see what happens and if you can install without TPM after you agree to some warning  they give you.  Otherwise I'll just stay on Windows 10 till I'm ready to build a new system.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • AMD RX 9070 GRE AI, Blender benchmarks vs 9070 XT, 7800XT, Nvidia RTX 5070, 4070 by Sayan Sen Earlier this week, we shared the first part of our review of AMD's new RX 9070 GRE. It was about the gaming performance of the GPU, and we gave it an 8 out of 10. As a follow-up, similar to how we did with the 9070 XT and non-XT, we are doing a dedicated productivity review for the RX 9070 GRE as well, where we compare it against the 9070 XT, 9070, 7800 XT, as well as Nvidia's 5070 and 4070. This will include AI, rendering, compute, and more benchmarks. AI performance, especially, is a very important metric in today's world, and AMD also promised big improvements thanks to its underlying architectural improvements. We will be pitching it against the data we already have for the RX 9070, and RX 9070 XT, but also the Nvidia 5070 FE, MSI GeForce RTX 4070 VENTUS 2X 12G, and Gigabyte Radeon RX 7800 XT GAMING OC 16G as they are in a similar price class, but also because we do not have a comparable 5060 Ti card lying around here that we can compare it against. Before we get underway, this is a collaboration between Sayan Sen and Steven Parker, who lent me his test bed. Also, there was no editorial input from AMD. First up, the specs of the RX 9070, 9070 XT, and 9070 GRE, which were given to us by AMD: Radeon RX 9070 GRE Radeon RX 9070 Radeon RX 9070 XT Boost Clock: Game Clock: up to 2.79GHz up to 2.20GHz up to 2.52GHz up to 2.07GHz up to 2.97GHz up to 2.40GHz Stream Processors 3,072 (48 CU) 3,584 (56 CU) 4,096 (64 CU) Ray Accelerator 48 56 64 AI Accelerator 96 112 128 ROPs 96 128 Texture Mapping Units 192 224 256 Memory 12 GB GDDR6, 18Gbps Clock, 192-bit Bus 432 GB/s 16 GB GDDR6, 20Gbps Clock, 256-bit Bus Effective Memory Bandwidth: 640 GB/s Infinity Cache 48 MB (3rd Gen) 64 MB (3rd Gen) Card Bus PCI-E 5.0 X16 Output 2x HDMI 2.1b 2x DisplayPort 2.1a Power consumption 220W 304W Recommended PSU 650W 750W Slot width 2x 3x Price (SEP) $549 $599 As you can see from the specs above, it is less than the standard RX 9070 in every way that counts, except for slightly higher Boost and Game clock speed. Design Moving on, the RX 9070 GRE we were given is an XFX Swift triple-fan, dual-slot design with two 8-pin connectors. At 30cm (self-measured), it will fit in most systems easily. There is no RGB either. The AMD Radeon RX 9070 GRE by XFX from all angles. Test system Our test system consists of the following: Lian Li O11 Dynamic Mini V2 Flow (Amazon|Newegg) ASUS Z890 ProArt Creator WiFi (Amazon|Newegg) Intel Core Ultra 7 270K Plus (Amazon|Newegg) Thermal Grizzly KryoSheet - 44x37 (Amazon|Newegg) 2x 16GB G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB (7200 MT/s in XMP) (Amazon|Newegg) Sabrent Rocket4 Plus 2TB SSD (Amazon) Windows 11 25H2 (Build 26200.8246) AMD shared a press driver based on the recently released Adrenaline 26.5.2 that we were required to use. We now move on to our benchmarks. First up, we have Geekbench AI running on ONNX. For some reason, the 9070 GRE does exceptionally well here in both half-precision (FP16) and single-precision (FP32). It manages to beat the RTX 5070 and RX 9070 non-XT, and is only behind the 9070 XT. Since Geekbench runs in short bursts instead of continuously hammering the graphics card, it seems the GRE's faster boost clocks are helping here. Next up, we move to the UL Procyon AI test suite, starting with the image generation benchmark. We chose the Stable Diffusion XL FP16 test since it is the most intense workload available on Procyon. The Nvidia cards do very well here, as even the 4070 out-muscles AMD's best fairy easily. The positive thing about the GRE is that it gets quite close to the 9070 non-XT in this test; this indicates that the VRAM does not play a very big role here, as SD XL relies on float16 (FP16). So this is something to keep in mind again. If you wish to work with float32 AI workloads, graphics cards with larger than 12 GB buffers would likely emerge as victors. Regardless, the gains are still massive on AMD's 9000 series compared to the 7000 series. Following image generation, we move to the text generation benchmark. This is one test where the 9070 GRE struggled, quite a lot. It seems that the 12 GB VRAM and lower memory bandwidth of the new Radeon 9070 GRE are hurting it quite a bit; the split is massive, especially in a test like Llama2, which packs 13 billion parameters. As such, in all the tests, the 9070 GRE is the slowest of the lot. Next, we tried Blender, and here the AMD GPUs were beaten by Nvidia. Rendering is something the Green team has always had a lead over the Red side, and it has not changed so far. On the positive side, though, the 9070 GRE shows significantly better results than the 7800 XT, which means AMD is on the right path. Catching up to Nvidia, though, will require a lot more effort. And we hope HIP and ROCm can keep improving. Wrapping up AI testing, we measured OpenCL throughput in the Geekbench compute benchmark. The RX 9070 GRE alongside the 9070 did not fare well here at all, even falling behind the 7800 XT. Interestingly, even the RTX 5070 could not beat the 4070 on OpenCL, so perhaps this suggests that OpenCL optimization may not have been a priority for either AMD or Nvidia in the modern era. Conclusion We reached the end of our productivity performance review of the 9070 GRE, and we have to say it's a mixed bag. Unlike the 9070 and 9070 XT, the GRE excels in some areas while losing ground fairly easily in others. Similar to how it happened in gaming, any time the card's memory subsystem gets hammered, it tends to fall behind the others. This was the case with text generation, wherein we saw the VRAM sometimes hit its maximum available 12 GB of usage with larger model sizes. So what do we make of the RX 9070 as a productivity hardware? It can certainly be used, but you have to know it has its limitations. For those looking for a GPU that can deal with more, AMD recently unveiled the Radeon AI PRO R9700, which is essentially a 32 GB refresh of the 9070 XT with some additional workstation-based optimizations. On a similar note, the new Ryzen AI Halo platform is something you can consider if you want to set up a local AI processing station. Considering everything, we rate AMD's Radeon RX 9070 GRE a 7.5 out of 10 for its productivity performance. Price is less of a factor for those looking at productivity cases compared to those considering the GPU for gaming, and as such, we felt it did quite decently on many occasions and can be handy if you need a 12 GB GPU and, for some reason, don't want to get Nvidia. Purchase links: RX 9070 / XT / GRE (Amazon US) As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • Does anyone here know if these updates are integrated into the UUP dump isos?
    • Motrix Next 3.9.4 by Razvan Serea Motrix Next is a modern, open-source cross-platform download manager built as the official next-generation successor to the original Motrix project. It has been completely rewritten using Tauri 2, Vue 3, TypeScript, and Rust, while still relying on the powerful Aria2 download engine for high-speed multi-protocol transfers. The app supports HTTP, HTTPS, FTP, BitTorrent, ED2K and magnet links, offering advanced features like multi-connection acceleration, task scheduling, bandwidth control, and batch download management. With a significantly reduced install size (around 20MB), it focuses on being lightweight, fast, and resource-efficient compared to traditional Electron-based download tools. Designed for Windows, macOS, and Linux, Motrix Next delivers a clean, modern UI inspired by Material Design 3 principles, with smooth animations and a minimal workflow. It improves usability through better download organization, system tray integration, and enhanced torrent handling including selective file downloads and tracker management. Motrix Next features: Multi-protocol downloads — HTTP, FTP, BitTorrent, Magnet, .torrent, ED2K, and Metalink tasks BitTorrent — Selective file download, DHT, peer exchange, encryption controls, metadata caching, GeoIP peer flags, and tracker probing Browser extension integration — Embedded Extension API with independent authentication, download confirmation, smart auto-submit, filename hints, referer/cookie forwarding, and real-time controls (Chrome Web Store · Edge Add-ons) Safe filename handling — Content-Disposition, RFC 2047, non-UTF-8, percent-encoded, and extensionless URL resolution with path traversal sanitization Download organization — Favorite and recent folders, optional file-type categorization, stale-record cleanup, and completed history backed by SQLite Concurrent downloads — Independent controls for active tasks, HTTP connections per server, segments per file, and BT peer limits Speed control — Global and per-task upload/download limits with day-of-week and time-of-day scheduling System integration — Tray operation, optional tray speed display, macOS Dock badge/progress, protocol handlers for magnet://, thunder://, and motrixnext:// Lightweight mode — Destroys the WebView on minimize-to-tray while Rust keeps the engine, task monitor, notifications, history, and extension routing alive Notifications and power options — Native task start/complete/failure notifications, keep-awake during downloads, and optional shutdown after completion Network controls — Scoped proxy support for downloads, app updates, and tracker updates, plus system proxy detection Auto-update channels — Stable, Beta, and Latest Across Channels policies with separate download and install phases Diagnostics — Structured logs, exportable diagnostic ZIPs, database integrity checks, automatic DB rebuild, and Linux GPU rendering fallback Personalization — Light/dark/system theme, 10 color schemes, 26 languages, and first-launch system language detection Motrix Next 3.9.4 changelog: Motrix Next 3.9.4 promotes the 3.9.4 beta cycle to stable. This release refreshes bundled engine binaries, improves task detail readability and copy actions, expands link handling for magnet and ED2K workflows, polishes responsive navigation and text wrapping, updates browser extension documentation, and refines network preference controls. New Features Task Detail copy actions — Added copyable values for task metadata and reusable render functions for long text fields. Magnet and ED2K lifecycle support — Added task lifecycle handling for magnet and ED2K links. History cleanup for deleted tasks — Deleted tasks can now remove matching history records. User-Agent management — Added user-agent management and improved related network preference controls. Browser extension documentation — Added the Firefox Add-ons link for the Motrix Next extension. Improvements Engine binaries — Updated bundled binaries for supported architectures. Task Detail readability — Long task names, URLs, tracker values, and copyable metadata now render more clearly. Deletion messaging — Refined localized task deletion text for clarity and consistency. Text wrapping — Improved URI input wrapping and task name multiline display. Navigation layout — Improved sub-navigation responsiveness. Disk allocation default — Changed the default file allocation method to trunc. Proxy controls — Improved proxy button styling in network preferences. Download: Motrix Next 64-bit | ARM64 | macOS ~20.0 MB (Open Source) Links: Website | macOS / Linux | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
    • NVIDIA officially supports Ubuntu, as linked above with the GeForce NOW Hands on I did in collaboration with Paul Hill.
    • TO be clear I am not running linux today, however I keep thinking about it. And I want to make sure there are minimal obstacles if I decide to make that switch in the coming months.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Proficient
      Eric Biran went up a rank
      Proficient
    • Dedicated
      Conjor earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • Week One Done
      Windows Guy earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Dedicated
      Mark Spruce earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • Collaborator
      conkir earned a badge
      Collaborator
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      479
    2. 2
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      244
    3. 3
      Steven P.
      72
    4. 4
      FloatingFatMan
      66
    5. 5
      +Edouard
      66
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!