Read: Trolling Revisited

[Chad]

For all the people coming in here just to make some stupid anti-Apple comment, go here

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=84526&st=0

If you are a Mac user that insists on flaming other Mac users over differences of opinion, go here

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=84526&st=0

IF you are a Mac user who insists on replying to every troll post, and in turn, flames the troll, go here

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=84526&st=0

I think that pretty much covers 9 out of 10 Mac users on this board, as well as the few pc users who insist on trolling. The Mac section here at Neowin USED to be a place where you could come discuss Macintosh computers. I can't help but miss the olden days when this section wasn't riddled with immature Mac users just dying to get into a flame war with any pc user willing to listen. Trolls used to be ignored, not enticed. There are still a few of us left (Neyo, myself, Kitten, evn, Timdorr, Daz, AshUK, unsanity, Gator, unspec, Justin Hancock, aaron901, cerbero, and many others who were here). Many great members have left because of the downturn. Most of you that have "switched" or joined Neowin since then, may want to check out some posts from 2002 to give you an idea of how things have worsened. It will also give you an idea of how many good members you have driven off.

Kitten laid down the rules in here some time ago. It's probably about time many of you started following them. I'm getting absolutely sick of this playground crap that is going on, as many others are, I'm sure. Fortunately there's still a few quality Mac users here who enjoy the rare, quality discussions. Grow up, or get out.

Added by timdorr:

Please, please, PLEASE, hit the report button when you see trolling. That emails me immediately and I'm able to act on the problem right away. Trolling is a serious problem, but I can't monitor every post in every thread 24/7. If you hit that button, there's a 99% chance I'll at least look at it, if not act on it. I may not always agree with you that it needs action taken against it, but at least it's being considered.

Remember, if you see trolling, hit

Edited July 21, 2004 by superfula

[Japlabot]

lol! listen to the man and Pin this topic too :p

[insurektion]

omfg!!1111! mac are teh so sux0rz. PCs r00l 4eva. @pple wants teh money liek M$.

jk (i got an iPod and hope to get an iBook soon, respect to apple and x86)

[Keldyn]

I think superfula makes a lot of good points. The issues raised here have been in dire need of addressing, and it would be great if members could show a little more respect for each other. I think it is about time we started cracking down on some of the more prominent offenders. Their actions spoil the forums for all those concerned, and it is a shame that we can lose perfectly good members over the actions of a few.

I am going to pin this thread, as I feel it is advice we can all benefit from.

[Lanky]

mac is the devil

[oik]

look, i agree, but the mods don't seem to be doing much, as i still see some trolls rolling around saying stuff like "here go the mac fanboys again". it's gotta be a no-tolerance policy, when one person gets away with it, it sets the example, ya know?

[Veedems Veteran]

I rarely visit the mac forum, but I think this problem is prevelant across the whole board, to some degree. I use and love Firefox, but even I can't stand the trolls anymore. Each person has unique needs when it comes to computing and different software fits different people's needs. We should respect that and be glad that someone found something they can comfortably use.

[MipScript]

So how are you going to stop trolls?

I think maybe removing there posts and any posts flaming them on would be the best way, just removing the threads leaves the mac section bare IMO

[oik]

well, as i look at the user list right now, there are 5 mods and 1 s.mod on the board, watching 240 users. i think 2 things should be done:

get more mods.

beef up penalties for trolling/flaming.

[imtoomuch]

Trolling goes both ways for Mac vs. Windows and for every thing else. The mods don't stop it too often so it probably won't ever stop.

*PureEdit proved my point for me at https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...0entry2225330

Edited June 6, 2004 by imtoomuch

[sfalcon]

I hate trolls as much as the next guy. However, I think there are good ways to go about suggesting an alternative product:

"Dump IE, get Firefox" "Just get FF, problem solved!" (N)

"The problem you're having with IE can be fixed, but it's probems like these that made me switch to FireFox. Firefox is less susceptible to browser hijacks because...etc etc." (Y)

So there should be clear and concise guidelines created.

[darkmark327]

Yeah it's not just the mac forum that gets trolled. Just stop by any charged thread, e.g. windows 2003 as a workstation lol...

[Chad]

I posted this in the Mac forum, as I spend 95% of my time on Neowin here. I have no doubt it goes on in other areas. I am also very aware that Mac users are as guilty as any other when it comes to trolling/flaming....even in the Mac section. They still don't realize they are one of the "bad eggs" and continue to blame everyone else.

More mods? No. They do a great job with the system that is implemented. Two mods could easily take care of 500 quality posters. Things have gotten a little lax, and people are taking advantage of it. Once you start suspending or banning members for one or two abuses, things will get better. I'm not an expert in law, but California has the "three strikes" rule. You could transition that to Neowin. First offense gets a certain amount of suspension, second offense a longer suspension, and the third offense is an outright banning. You'd have to keep the rule straight across the board. It would have to include off topic posts (where much of the problem lies), disrepecting another members opinions, beliefs, etc. It's not rocket surgery. If you want a quality place to discuss computers or whatever, you have to be strict in the rules.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Well I do have to say that it is partly my fault because I haven't been on here as much as I used to lately.

Some of it also stems from the fact that most of the reports for flaming that I tend to get is from people that label pc users that come in and give differing opinions on things and back it up, as flames.

I will say this though, the rules certainly will get a lot more strict around here the way they used to be, and don't think that I'm going to have a preference in laying the smackdown on people based on what operating system that you tend to use.

The same rule about flaming applies to mac users as well and I have seen cases where some of you seem think you are above the law yourselves just because you use a mac and post in the mac section.

It's not the case, it won't be tolerated, and you will find yourselves warned just as easily.

[oik]

It's not rocket surgery.

:D

[uniacidz]

Trolling goes both ways for Mac vs. Windows and for every thing else.  The mods don't stop it too often so it probably won't ever stop.

*PureEdit proved my point for me at https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...0entry2225330

The thing is, mods do it also.

May i remind some mod on Neowin, whom i have plain as day abused in the public forums, for trolling Firefox over and over again whenever a person using Internet Explorer has a issue. Not only has this mod seen the wrath of me, but also from some other members for whenver HE trolls.

Fine there has to be some more penalties involved/warnings, but the Admin have and mods have to look at themselves to set a example and to stop trolling themselves.

Cant have one set of rules/guidelines for members and a different set for Mods. Quite frankly, it ****es me off.

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

The thing is, mods do it also.

May i remind some mod on Neowin, whom i have plain as day abused in the public forums, for trolling Firefox over and over again whenever a person using Internet Explorer has a issue. Not only has this mod seen the wrath of me, but also from some other members for whenver HE trolls.

Fine there has to be some more penalties involved/warnings, but the Admin have and mods have to look at themselves to set a example and to stop trolling themselves.

Cant have one set of rules/guidelines for members and a different set for Mods. Quite frankly, it ****es me off.

If there is a mod that is trolling that much I would suggest pmming neowin or redmak and letting them know.

[uniacidz]

If there is a mod that is trolling that much I would suggest pmming neowin or redmak and letting them know.

You are correct.

Compiling info now.

Cheers

[SPeedY_B]

Good post, would definitely enjoy seeing this section nice and clean :)

[memNOC]

look, the more you make a big deal out of this, the more you will see it happening..

what some people consider trolling is nothing but someone expressing their opinion about a certain software.. if i don't like something, i will sure say so when i have the opportunity.. it's your problem your immature-self can't deal with people disliking your favorite software/company/whatever..

the way this opinion is expressed, whether it be "Macs suck" or backing up the opinion with facts, is irrelevant.. everyone expresses differently, and honestly, you can't expect your average 12-yr-old Neowin user (they're the majority) to know better than "trolling"..

again, learn to live with it and learn to ignore it.. it's everyone else's fault things escalate to the point of flame-wars and threads, supposedly, get ruined....

there are immature people, there are plain morronic people... you can't just force them out of a community you so freeingly and enthusiastically "welcomed" them to..

[the evn show]

what some people consider trolling is nothing but someone expressing their opinion about a certain software..

s/trolling/racism/ and s/software/people.

There are ways to express yourself without being a fool.

the way this opinion is expressed, whether it be "Macs suck" or backing up the opinion with facts, is irrelevant.. everyone expresses differently

If the words people too choose to express themselves disrupts the regular (and intelligent) conversation on the forums then those words should be brought under scrutiny.

, you can't expect your average 12-yr-old Neowin user (they're the majority) to know better than "trolling"..

Why not?

If they're 12 then there parents would have signed and faxed the COPPA release form. Why should we get involved in age discrimination anyway? Why should a 13 year old kid who "doesn't know better" get special treatment when someone with ADHD doesn't? What about the 25 year old man who's new to the internet and doesn't realize he's being disruptive? Or maybe I decide to get ****ed drunk on monday and come back expressing my distaste for windows with appropriate venom in all the wrong forums - where would my free pass be?

again, learn to live with it and learn to ignore it..

I'll sooner leave these forums than deal with a signal to noise ratio like that.

there are immature people, there are plain morronic people... you can't just force them out of a community you so freeingly and enthusiastically "welcomed" them to..

You're welcome in my house for a drink - but if you **** on my bed, or hit on my girlfriend I'll kick your ass to the curb with more than just a smile and a handshake.

[jedimasterk]

I am calling a truce!. Even though you have all heard me praise Linux and open source. I will admit that both Apple users and the rest of the UNIX community share a commom UNIX background. Mac OSX is UNIX and Linux is UNIX. Just like IRIX, Solaris, and the various flavors of BSD. Like Free BSD. Actually you could say that Mac OSX is also a flavor of BSD. Instead of arguing over which operating system is better. Mac OSX or Linux. We should concentrate more on learning about the benefits and shortcomings of all the flavors of UNIX. And help make UNIX, in what ever form, more fun to use and learn. Mac users can benefit from learning more about X and command line UNIX, wheras Linux and Free BSD users can learn more about how to make Linux and Free BSD more user friendly, by Apple's example. In my opinion, it's fun learning about command line, as well as making my desktop easier to use. Using a computer should not only be just a tool, that you use at your job. But it should also be something that people can use to learn about other aspects of computing that can be fun. Learning how to program, by learning a computer language, like C++, or Python, for example. Instead of just using Photoshop or Mozilla to browse the web. :)

[Southern Patriot]

Some of it also stems from the fact that most of the reports for flaming that I tend to get is from people that label pc users that come in and give differing opinions on things and back it up, as flames.

The only user that I have personally reported is area91, and if you look at his posting history, you will see that roughly 90% of his posts in ALL forums are troll-like, and approaching 100% in the Mac forums.

[Southern Patriot]

I am calling a truce!. Even though you have all heard me praise Linux and open source. I will admit that both Apple users and the rest of the UNIX community share a commom UNIX background.

In the past, I have considered you only slightly less of a troll than a certain other "induhvidual", but with that post, you have redeemed yourself in my mind. Well said.

[Chad]

The only user that I have personally reported is area91, and if you look at his posting history, you will see that roughly 90% of his posts in ALL forums are troll-like, and approaching 100% in the Mac forums.

Please don't use this thread to call people out. That definately isn't helping the situation here.