Read: Trolling Revisited

[MipScript]

look, the more you make a big deal out of this, the more you will see it happening..

Or not, if no one says anything then nothing will get done. Now that its all being said the mods will be more heavy on people who break the rules and flame... :happy:

[Southern Patriot]

Please don't use this thread to call people out. That definately isn't helping the situation here.

Sorry about that. It's just that this one person has made a sport of trolling in the Mac forums and it seems that nothing has been done about him. The fact that he has been reported before and nothing has been done about the situation just goes to show that more drastic measures are required, just as you have pointed out. And I disagree with your assessment that pointing out obvious trolls doesn't help. On the contrary, I think that the more people complain about those that regularly troll the forums, the more likely it will be that something gets done about them.

[rvbfan]

It's not rocket surgery.

rocket science (Y)

[Chad]

Sorry about that. It's just that this one person has made a sport of trolling in the Mac forums and it seems that nothing has been done about him. The fact that he has been reported before and nothing has been done about the situation just goes to show that more drastic measures are required, just as you have pointed out. And I disagree with your assessment that pointing out obvious trolls doesn't help. On the contrary, I think that the more people complain about those that regularly troll the forums, the more likely it will be that something gets done about them.

What I meant, was that individually pointing out trolls in this thread won't help. I don't want one big finger-pointing session in here, or anywhere in the forum. It can only lead to more trolls/flamers joining in. I have my share of pc and mac users who I'd love to see gone, but publicly pointing them out won't help. If you have a big problem with someone, start pming the mods/admins about it. You read Kitten's post. If it happens again, I really doubt she'll just let it slide.

[MipScript]

It's just that this one person has made a sport of trolling in the Mac forums

He does like to voice his opinion about Macintosh and Apple quite loudly I agree I don't want him banned though. Just want him to not be so nasty :cry:

[EDIT] Remember his not the only flammer in the Mac section mac users do it to I think I have blown it a few times aswell.

[Chad]

rocket science (Y)

yes I know....it was a joke

He does like to voice his opinion about Macintosh and Apple quite loudly I agree I don't want him banned though. Just want him to not be so nasty 

[EDIT]Remember his not the only flammer in the Mac section mac users do it to I think I have blown it a few times aswell. 

I really could care less if people come into the Mac forum (or anywhere) to troll. To me, that's not the problem. The problem is when Mac users (or whoever) actively choose not to ignore the troll, and in turn, become a troll. The punishment for them should be just as harsh. If you ignore the troll/flame, he/she really won't have a reason to do it again, since they didn't get the reaction they wanted.

Edited June 7, 2004 by superfula

[rvbfan]

yes I know....it was a joke

:D

[rstroud]

/puts on shoes and sweater

look, the more you make a big deal out of this, the more you will see it happening..

Just simply ignoring it won't make it go away...I agree, it's very prominent. It's one of the reasons I came to Neowin from ntfs.org. People are genuinely asking for help, we have tons of people with different skill levels, abilities, and backgrounds. People may want to be funny or whatever, but sometimes it just comes off as rude. I enjoy helping other people out with computer problems or just discussing things. Being rude is easy here because there's no name, no face, and no repercussions for your actions. However, in the end, people do get their feelings hurt. No one is perfect, so let's just lay off one another and get back to talking about what's cool and we all have in common: Technology!

/takes off shoes and sweater and sings a song...

[ZTrang]

People may want to be funny or whatever, but sometimes it just comes off as rude.? I enjoy helping other people out with computer problems or just discussing things.? Being rude is easy here because there's no name, no face, and no repercussions for your actions.

I agree that many times what others perceive as "trolling" is somebody who just wants to be funny, rather than somebody who genuinely wants to attack somebody for their opinions. However, I think that only reinforces the point that we should lay down a doctrine on exactly what is "funny" and what is "trolling," as obviously there is a difference, and obviously some people don't see the difference. People who have strayed into "trolling" territory should get one warning, telling them exactly what is wrong and what they can and cannot do on forums (there should actually be a form letter to this effect for moderators to use). If they make another infraction, the moderator confronts them with the infraction and asks them whether they realize what they have done is wrong. If they don't see why they have done something wrong, or they do but do not care that they have done something wrong, then they are shown the rules again, and then they get restricted for a week. If they do see what they have done wrong, and seem truly sorry and repentent about it, they get restricted for two or three days. After the third infraction, that user gets banned, but should have a chance to appeal to other moderators to review their case and their three infractions. If other moderators feel the infractions aren't severe enough, the decision can be reduced or overruled. If we had a very clear system like this (which we might, I don't know, I've never trolled), I think we would have many fewer incidents of trolling (and maybe a few fewer members as well)

[macster]

Well actually i think there are less trolls now than when we first started

Still remember when kiddo was on the mac forums :p

But yes new trolls come and they are irritating but its a problem with all boards and forums

and we should try to point them in the right direction ( if possible ) and dont get so worked up.

Ya i agree. Some people like to post flamebait and then some members respond to them and it goes all crazy but i think most of us here dont do it. so lets all calm down and be nice to each other :)

[ZTrang]

Ya i agree. Some people like to post flamebait and then some members respond to them and it goes all crazy but i think most of us here dont do it. so lets all calm down and be nice to each other :)

I think that both the flamebaiters and the ones who respond are in the wrong. Of course, if one has a logical, calm response to a flamebaiter which isn't actually a flame, but refutes the flamebaiter's claim, that is fine. However, those who indulge in flame wars are just as bad as those who start them. We should ensure that both flamebaiters and flamers are dealth with, regardless of whether the flamers were baited. We should definitely calm down, though. This is just technology; it is interesting, but it's not life and death (unless you actually work in that industry). We're here to learn, not to attack.

[Fusion]

Supr, there were just as many trolls here in the olden days as there are now. Nothing is going to change that, including your so-enlightened post, until the Mods start doing something about it. Unless they are willing to start pruning topics and banning members for inappropriate behavior, then people are going to realize they can get away with it and continue doing so.

Some of the members that you even listed in your "some of us left list" are not even here anymore. I too long for the days of Neyo, Gator, evn, Justin and cerbero all chatting about Mac stuff, but the fact is, the board is beyond repair. There are a million better Mac communities out there now and to think that Neowin is just going to magically get better and the trolls will disappear is foolish.

Right now, the only reason some ever come here is just to read evn's stuff, and what happens when he leaves? The board is killing itself and you are not the only one who is sick and tired of the way things have become around here, but it is the mod's discretion of how good things can return, and given the track record, I doubt it will be heading to the up-side anytime soon.

Hell, I feel sorry for the mods here, I wouldn't waste my time with it.

[amdme2600]

Yea I am also sorry I have flamed on neowin . I feel bad now I am sorry but some ppl just **** me off but its mostly my fault it is my fault. We all need to respect eachother nomatter what age or sex or what we use Windows or Mac/Apple. This is a great form and I would hate to see it go away. I like to help ppl with computers on my free time I would like to keep it that way. I will do what I can to stop my self and others from trolling and causing trouble politey. We all need to help not just the mods. Sometimes we need to hold or toungs and let someone talk its hard somethimes even if your right let ppl say what they want considerd its apropreit and on topic.

[Steven P. Administrators]

I added a Mac Restricted group, people who can't help themselves but troll here will be added to that group restricting all access to the Mac forums.

[Steve]

I added a Mac Restricted group, people who can't help themselves but troll here will be added to that group restricting all access to the Mac forums.

Cool! Nice one, thanks! :) Sounds like a start! Could you change it, so users in that group may view, but not post? Its a shame to block them out of reading about stuff, but stopping them posting, is the key part of the 'block', so it'd be great if you could do this, 'instead'?

[Steven P. Administrators]

Cool! Nice one, thanks! :) Sounds like a start! Could you change it, so users in that group may view, but not post? Its a shame to block them out of reading about stuff, but stopping them posting, is the key part of the 'block', so it'd be great if you could do this, 'instead'?

If people find themselves in this group then they will have forfeited their stay in the Mac forum.

I guess people will just have to respect our rules, they arent that strict and people who break them cause us a lot of work.

[Steve]

If people find themselves in this group then they will have forfeited their stay in the Mac forum.

I guess people will just have to respect our rules, they arent that strict and people who break them cause us a lot of work.

Fair enough. I am curious however, how will users know they are likely to be 'blacklisted', will there be 3 warnings, before, or would it be a sudden thing, based upon their 'performance' in these forums? You should clear up, how users would find themselves into this blacklist. If anything, that too may act as a deterrent. I appreciate there are forum rules, but are they clear, as far as this new 'blacklisting' scheme is concerned?

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Fair enough. I am curious however, how will users know they are likely to be 'blacklisted', will there be 3 warnings, before, or would it be a sudden thing, based upon their 'performance' in these forums? You should clear up, how users would find themselves into this blacklist. If anything, that too may act as a deterrent. I appreciate there are forum rules, but are they clear, as far as this new 'blacklisting' scheme is concerned?

persistant trolling, and also persistant baiting of said trolls, it pretty much works both ways

[Steve]

persistant trolling, and also persistant baiting of said trolls, it pretty much works both ways

Fair enough! But how do they gauge that? That was what i was looking at.. Its easy as a Mod to say 'yea, thats enough, blacklist for them...' but as a poster, how would they know when they've gone too far? Would you warn them in advance, being for 'blacklisting' them?

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

I think for the most part people will improper intent will get the restriction, in which case they'll know what they're doing is wrong...

[Crowmac]

When visiting Neowin im only in the mac section and get really fed up with Windows Users coming here and trolling this section, it is getting rediculous now and Im fed up with it to be honest. They should either bugger off or go to the right sections on Neowin Please dont come here doing everyones heads in, its not fair to us people who want to come here for some good info and help. As for the Staffing issues, i think there should be mods just for the mac section so that they can keep and eye on people and just delete their posts and even ban them from the Mac section as this is whats needed here.

[session]

persistant trolling, and also persistant baiting of said trolls, it pretty much works both ways

And as posters, what should we do if someone does "persistant trolling, or persistant baiting of said trolls"? because lately, the mac forum mods seem absent. most flamebait threads were closed by other forum mods and they also claimed that they didn't get any report to trolls due to the report sent to respective forum mods.

I believe this should work from both sides: members and staff. sometimes we members need to know what happens to our reports, and what the line is so we don't cross the line. we've seen many members using improper languages, which is directly against neowin rules, and it seems nothing happening to them after being reported. sometimes a thread is totally reined but it still goes on for days.

[corrosive23]

And as posters, what should we do if someone does "persistant trolling, or persistant baiting of said trolls"? because lately, the mac forum mods seem absent. most flamebait threads were closed by other forum mods and they also claimed that they didn't get any report to trolls due to the report sent to respective forum mods.

I believe this should work from both sides: members and staff. sometimes we members need to know what happens to our reports, and what the line is so we don't cross the line. we've seen many members using improper languages, which is directly against neowin rules, and it seems nothing happening to them after being reported. sometimes a thread is totally reined but it still goes on for days.

You are one of the biggest inciters of responsive flaming session. Your rampant fanboi attitude provokes those around you.

[session]

You are one of the biggest inciters of responsive flaming session. Your rampant fanboi attitude provokes those around you.

at least I don't call people fanboy nor do I create threads in Linux or Windows sections compared them with OS X, not even mention jumping in Linux and Windows disccusions and claim "since they both don't work on PC, what's the point." I stay where I should and defend my OS and try helping other mac users if I can. How is this flaming? This is a discussion on how to prevent trolling in Mac forum, not a discussion on where/from whom they come. Maybe we expect to see more people like area91 in Mac forum? If that's the case, I can leave neowin for good. Big deal. There are tons of forums with more mature members anyways. Point taken? "don't count on it." -- (Why will dashboard be F12!, by nuka_t @ Jul 3 2004, 00:41)

Edited July 3, 2004 by session

[corrosive23]

at least I don't call people fanboy nor do I create threads in Linux or Windows sections compared them with OS X, not even mention jumping in Linux and Windows disccusions and claim "since they both don't work on PC, what's the point." I stay where I should and defend my OS and try helping other mac users if I can. How is this flaming? This is a discussion on how to prevent trolling in Mac forum, not a discussion on where/from whom they come. Maybe we expect to see more people like area91 in Mac forum? If that's the case, I can leave neowin for good. Big deal. There are tons of forums with more mature members anyways. Point taken? "don't count on it." --Why will dashboard be F12!i>, by nuka_t @ Jul 3 2004, 00:41)

Your sig is inflammatory and the way you respond to people is. Damn people is a computer not a religion. When you all realise that then we wont have trolling.