Rolando Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Let's just remember who made Ousama Bin Laden shall we ? Bin Laden was first backed up by the United States. He first emerged in the late years of the cold war and his assigment was to create a group to fight the USSR forces out of Afghanistan. Therefor, Al-Qaeda was created and they were given cash and weaponary from the United States government... That was no secret ! Now after the cold war ended, Al-Qaeda members went each their seperate way. Al-Qaeda dissappeared then... That was no secret either ! However, nowadays whenever any explosion occurs here and there, they link it to Al-Qaeda! If Al-Qaeda still existed, which they don't, they wouldn't be able to cause all these "terrorist" actions. Whenever, the US needs to get rid of someone they prove that he's linked to Al-Qaeda. The United States claims Saddam was linked to Al-Qaeda simply so that Bush ratings would go up; Israel claims Palestinians are linked to Al-Qaeda so that they wouldn't look bad doing all the horrible things they would do. Ousama Bin Laden could be living in Long Beach California getting a salary from the US government for all you know... and every now and then he dresses up to make a speach on TV. You can't honestly believe that a small-headed person like Bin Laden the leader of the highly controversial Al-Qaeda... and it doesn't make sense to think that this small group can cause such an amount of chaos worldwide. Nowadays whenever something unjustified happens people say Al-Qaeda directly without any proof... That would really be the naive thing to do.. What makes what I am saying correct ? Well when the United States forces took over Afghanistan, they had alot of resistance from Taliban and they arrested alot of members from Taliban, but we rarely saw actual Al-Qaeda members taking action... We only heard of Al-Qaeda members ! You have to start thinking outside the box... Before you start replying... just think about this for one minute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxpor Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Area 51 please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3ta Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Rolando - :omg: very thought provoking. Of course it's probably mostly fanciful at best. But interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyout Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 hmmm [puton]TinFoilHatt3[/puton] thought about it....yes we created them, but they are spread around the Mid-East/Globally... the thing is, I think we Generically call all the terrorist Al-Queda Members...except the ones that Define thier own terrorist organisation.....let alone Cells... we trained Saddam and Al-Queda members.....gave weapons, funds, maybe even some slave girls....never will know, because most of the White House doucments during Regan's years are sealed....which would implicated....Rumsfeild, Bush's dad, Ashcroft, possiblly Collin Powell, and maybe Cheney.....we do have video tape of Rumsfeild shaking hands with Saddam in the 80's.... and now they targeted them....amazing...you have info from your past of creating something, then using it when things you want to go your way... [takeoff]TinFoilHatt3[/takeoff] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I don't know who Ousama Bin Laden is..... but on a serious note. this just seems like a ploy to make people to think they don't exist so they can do more damage.... move this to Area 51 please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigj Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Al-Queda is DEFINATELY real. But i think that some terrorists not actually affiliated with Al-Quaeda, sometimes label themselves as them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palin Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 They're real. Our politicians and media probably credit them for even more terrorist actions than they've actually committed, but they exist --and they're a bunch of murderous religious zealots. On a side note, they also offered to help us against Saddam in the first Gulf War. (At least, Bin Laden did.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I think its pretty frivilous to say they dont exist. But a couple weeks ago I commented on something similar, its funny how any explosion or anything suspect is automatically blamed on Al-Qaeda. Like these attacks in Iraq, its not Iraqi rebels anymore, its Al-Qaeda militants. Its like all terrorists have just fallen under the one blanket of Al-Qaeda. Except when its something in Indonesia where then its all J.I before sept.11 there was a plethora of different terrorists cells/groups. Now they are all just the one thing, designed to propell on the 'threat' of Al-Qaeda I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyablue Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I think its pretty frivilous to say they dont exist.But a couple weeks ago I commented on something similar, its funny how any explosion or anything suspect is automatically blamed on Al-Qaeda. Like these attacks in Iraq, its not Iraqi rebels anymore, its Al-Qaeda militants. Its like all terrorists have just fallen under the one blanket of Al-Qaeda. Except when its something in Indonesia where then its all J.I before sept.11 there was a plethora of different terrorists cells/groups. Now they are all just the one thing, designed to propell on the 'threat' of Al-Qaeda I guess. Weren't the Madrid Bombings first blamed on ETA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAcOdIn Veteran Posted July 1, 2004 Veteran Share Posted July 1, 2004 OK. First of Al-Qaeda does exist pure and simple. Second yeah we funded Bin Laden and many other Mujahadeen in Afghanistan during the cold war but that wasn't to start a global organization but to combat the soviets without directly bloodying our hands. I don't even think most people would say we did the wrong thing there. Granted it would have been better morally to actually give our support openly to the Afghani's but silently aiding them was the next best thing we could do at the time. Wether openly backing the Afghani's would have heated up the cold war I'll never know, but I guess I can see why many feared it would. Anyways what I'm saying is that we didn't just write a check to Bin Laden we were funding and aiding ALOT of people there against the soviets. I guess our biggest mistake was that after the soviets left we didn't help the Afghani's rebuild or anything we just left them there. As to whether Bin Laden is small headed or not.... well I don't know. I will say this though, you don't need to be smart to run a huge organization, I mean look at Bush, I wouldn't call him smart and he's the President. You'd be suprised what an idiot could do if he surrounds himself with smarter like minded people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuka_t Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 ya, bush running the united states :rolleyes: more like running it into the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolando Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 I don't know who Ousama Bin Laden is.....but on a serious note. this just seems like a ploy to make people to think they don't exist so they can do more damage.... move this to Area 51 please. are you kidding me ? why would I want them to make more damage ? All my aim is to show you how Al-Qaeda has became a reason so that a country like The United States can make war over whomever they want to... This ain't right ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolando Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 OK. First of Al-Qaeda does exist pure and simple.Second yeah we funded Bin Laden and many other Mujahadeen in Afghanistan during the cold war but that wasn't to start a global organization but to combat the soviets without directly bloodying our hands. I don't even think most people would say we did the wrong thing there. Granted it would have been better morally to actually give our support openly to the Afghani's but silently aiding them was the next best thing we could do at the time. Wether openly backing the Afghani's would have heated up the cold war I'll never know, but I guess I can see why many feared it would. Anyways what I'm saying is that we didn't just write a check to Bin Laden we were funding and aiding ALOT of people there against the soviets. I guess our biggest mistake was that after the soviets left we didn't help the Afghani's rebuild or anything we just left them there. As to whether Bin Laden is small headed or not.... well I don't know. I will say this though, you don't need to be smart to run a huge organization, I mean look at Bush, I wouldn't call him smart and he's the President. You'd be suprised what an idiot could do if he surrounds himself with smarter like minded people. I didn't say that the US was wrong in helping them against the USSR. But do you seriously believe that a bunch of people who barely have something to eat are causing chaos all over the world with their primitive weapons ? (Their weapons are primitive even compared to other extremist groups) Don't you really think that it's best for the US government to make people believe that they are fighting a terrorist group called Al-Qaeda so that they would go to war (or take whatever actions they intend to) with the approval of the American people ? Now they are linking Middle Eastern countries one by one to Al-Qaeda so that the US can simply make war for oil with the approval of the people... When trust me, a guy from the Middle East, we have never seen of even heard of someone that belongs to Al-Qaeda around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldyn Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 [moved to Area 51] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAcOdIn Veteran Posted July 1, 2004 Veteran Share Posted July 1, 2004 (edited) I didn't say that the US was wrong in helping them against the USSR. But do you seriously believe that a bunch of people who barely have something to eat are causing chaos all over the world with their primitive weapons ? (Their weapons are primitive even compared to other extremist groups) Never said you said that us helping in the way we did in Afghanistan was wrong, I just threw that out there incase, you or someoneelse, was going to call that into question. Concerning weapons, yes I do because if you look at the weapons they are using no they aren't advanced. They're homemade bombs, airplanes, boats with bombs, and yes primitive they may be they're also effective and are being used. For me to deny they're causing damage would be tool pull wool over my eyes. Don't you really think that it's best for the US government to make people believe that they are fighting a terrorist group called Al-Qaeda so that they would go to war (or take whatever actions they intend to) with the approval of the American people ? I agree with you here. The Iraq/Al-Qaeda link was pure BS. He(Bush) did link them together publicly just to gain suport for the war in Iraq. Even though we've suspected ties long before Bush we never ever had any "real firm" evidence and no-one wanted to publicly state that Iraq and Al-Qaeda had ties. Bush was the first and it was to trump up support for the war. So 100% in agreement with you on this paragraph. Now they are linking Middle Eastern countries one by one to Al-Qaeda so that the US can simply make war for oil with the approval of the people... When trust me, a guy from the Middle East, we have never seen of even heard of someone that belongs to Al-Qaeda around here. Sigh. We're not invading everyone for oil. I'm sorry it looks that way but we're not. Yes Iraq had alot, that wasn't why we went though. Afghanistan did not have alot of oil and we still went there. Of course you'll bring in the pipeline, but to date it still has not been built, and it is good for Afghanistan's economy which has nothing but rugs, opium and goats, so they can use whatever they can get. To say Afghanistan shouldn't build a pipeline just because it's for oil would be retarded. Al-Qaeda in other countries is a toughie. On one hand of course there will be Al-Qaeda sympathisers in alot of countries, but on the other hand we have quite a few right here in the US, surely we can't invade everyone because they have a few Al-Qaeda supporters or operatives in thier country. So the distinction is being made between those countries that aren't actually helping Al-Qaeda themselves, and those that have Al-Qaeda withing thier borders but do not support them, and this is a hard thing for an American civilian to follow. Further this is where I and Bush disagree. I agreed with the invasion of Afghanistan because they did infact harbor Bin Laden, and we had to go after HIM. The world and the American people had to have some kind of reassurence that we wouldn't stand for some jackass blowing up buildings. However at the same time I had hoped that Bush might also try and fix some of our horribly broken foreign policy which disenfranchises so many to America and makes it so easy for an organization like Al-Qaeda to recruit more members, and I think Bush has failed miserably. We can't defeat Al-Qaeda with force alone, but that's all Bush seems to know, and that'll keep thier(Al-Qaeda's) ranks full. And even if we do get Bin Laden and all the high-ups all we'll suceed in doing by going into country after country by force will create more people against us, and they'll create thier own organizations to combat us. I do not think Bin Laden hates us just because we're capitalist or predominately Christian or anything crazy like that, I think he has some fundamental reasons as well and we should be addressing those at the same time we were going into Afghanistan so the average person doesn't start to sympathise with Bin Ladens cause. And about not knowing someone in Al-Qaeda, well I don't know anyone from the FBI but trust me they're in this city. Not everyone wears thier alleginces on thier sleeve. But I'd be willing to bet that alot of these groups that Bush links to Al-Qaeda aren't really Al-Qaeda per-se but a member of one group may be a member of both, much like I'm a member of several like minded sites on the internet but that doesn't mean those sites are all one in the same just because they have a common member. <I hope this makes sense because it does highlight what I feel is a major problem in how we link organizations together. Edited July 1, 2004 by mAcOdIn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 "The biggest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist" Osama Bin Laden does exist and is linked heavily to Al-Qaeda. Yes the states started his military training, and yeah they used him as a tool. However, there is no denying that Al-Qaeda does exist, IS a terrorist organisation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaZoR Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Rolando, your location explains your post. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiffy0517 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 i'm sorry man but that theory is out there. :blink: :blink: :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolando Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 Rolando, your location explains your post. :D It's very wrong for you to say that... I'm against violence, wars, and extremists and I do not in any way support what you call "terrorism" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolando Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 "The biggest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist"Osama Bin Laden does exist and is linked heavily to Al-Qaeda. Yes the states started his military training, and yeah they used him as a tool. However, there is no denying that Al-Qaeda does exist, IS a terrorist organisation! They used him as a tool and they still are... they link whoever they want to get rid of to Ousama Bin Laden. Then their actions become legitment. You are thinking exactly the way your government wants you to think... I know it's not easy to believe what I said, and I have absolutely no motive to post this besides getting to the truth but like I said... you have to start thinking outside the box! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudEngineer Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 So when is the United States going to get rid of groups such as the KKK They seem focused else where atm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAcOdIn Veteran Posted July 1, 2004 Veteran Share Posted July 1, 2004 Rolando - I have properly replied to you know in my last post one page 1 if you read it. Tell me what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolando Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 mAcOdIn: Actually if you research around you'll find that Afghanistan is one of the world's most enriched countries with natural gas... but that's not the case. All I was aiming to is that if you link 'X' to Al-Qaeda, then it becomes legal for you to kill 'X'. However, some people know the trick, yet alot of people actually fall for that and truly believe that 'X' is a terrorist that deserves to die. I believe that Al-Qaeda is just an illusion; they're a lame purpose created by the US so that the US government can do what they want to do with the approval of the people... and to prove that you've got people in this thread posting "Yes indeed they exist... it would be wrong to say that they don't" without having any living proof of their existence. (That is what I mean by the approval of the people...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narlzac85 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 ,Jul 1 2004, 09:07] So when is the United States going to get rid of groups such as the KKKThey seem focused else where atm.. As long as the KKK doesn't openly harm anyone, there is nothing we can do because of their freedom of speech (sadly). However, I don't believe many/any people here even care much about the KKK. they just seem like the leftovers/bottom of the barrel/last in line for brains/etc. Nobody is afraid of these idiots as long as they are contained/content. The issue of Bin Laden being blamed for everything, well I don't very much care. If he wants to take the blame for killing people, then he obviously wants the attention. Go ahead and blame the bad weather on him for all I care. Just shoot the coward and get it over with. Whether we supplied the training and such in the first place, thats in the past. Maybe he was trustworthy back then (ties to important Saudi families) mistakes happen, just fix them and for everyone's sake, get Bush out of office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAcOdIn Veteran Posted July 1, 2004 Veteran Share Posted July 1, 2004 All I was aiming to is that if you link 'X' to Al-Qaeda, then it becomes legal for you to kill 'X'. However, some people know the trick, yet alot of people actually fall for that and truly believe that 'X' is a terrorist that deserves to die. That's your whole argument then? Well then I agree. Al-Qaeda has grown in the American eyes from a terrorist organization to more-so of a symbol, some kind of mythical entity that envelopes all and is ever present and all knowing, like a God of evil and chaos or at least a reasonable facsimile. It is silly of course and it is very hard to discern fact from fiction because a half truth is harder to debunk than a full lie, plus your average joe just believes what he sees on TV. So if your argument is "not everyone we say is Al-Qaeda is really Al-Qaeda" then I agree, but I have to disagree with you on them not existing because they do exist. Edit: reread your second paragraph, I swear it wasn't there before :), and totally disagree. No-one but you says they don't exist, no-one. I admit that I don't actually "know" they exist since I haven't gone to a meeting or anything of the sort, but every single government seems to say they exist. The evidence saying they exist is overwhelming. I don't see why you don't wan't to see it. I agree that we've probably called wolf too many times on Al-Qaeda but they are there, they do exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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