FireFox or Opera ?

[Jayzee]

Opera has been out longer than Firefox so it is unfair to compare them in that matter.

I've used both Opera and Firefox and got stuck with Firefox 'cause it is free, secure and has everything you could require of a webbrowser. I'm positive that Firefox team will later on add features/plugins that most of Opera users are complaining about, since it's OPEN SOURCE.

Looks like the signs of a flaming n00b to me... :sleep:

585359325[/snapback]

What's wrong? Can't take a joke? If you look closer you'll see that that's IE logo.. :happy:

[worbd]

I'm positive that Firefox team will later on add features/plugins that most of Opera users are complaining about, since it's OPEN SOURCE.

Opera users don't want those plugins. They want something that just works. And by the time Firefox has caught up with Opera 8, Opera has progressed even further.

:sleep:

[Ji@nBing]

Wow, I don't believe this thread is still going. Both are great browsers. I use them both. One is not better than the other. It's just personal preferance. No one is going to win here, so you all may as well stop arguing :p

[Jayzee]

Wow, I don't believe this thread is still going. Both are great browsers. I use them both. One is not better than the other. It's just personal preferance. No one is going to win here, so you all may as well stop arguing :p

585360472[/snapback]

I agree!

[Malisk]

Opera users don't want those plugins. They want something that just works. And by the time Firefox has caught up with Opera 8, Opera has progressed even further.

:sleep:

585360460[/snapback]

What? Speak for yourself.

I use Opera occasionally since I like how more efficiently it use RAM than Firefox over time, but I wouldn't complain if it had plugin support for stuff like e.g. Adblock, for far more efficient blocking than filter.ini, CSS cludges, or external apps. I also have very convenient blogger and weather extensions installed in it.

And no, Opera 8 has nothing to offer to compete with those extensions.

[Chode]

Opera has been out longer than Firefox so it is unfair to compare them in that matter.

585360427[/snapback]

Also discussed in detail countless times over this thread.

Opera 6 was a complete rewrite from the previous Opera versions. Opera 7 was also a major rewrite of the Opera core. So, in it's current form, Opera began at version 7. In terms of Firefox, this puts Opera only ONE version ahead of the age of Firefox.

(and not to mention that Firefox uses parts of the Netscape core, which had been in development a very long time before.... and that Firefox is built of Mozilla anyway)

[worbd]

I use Opera occasionally since I like how more efficiently it use RAM than Firefox over time, but I wouldn't complain if it had plugin support for stuff like e.g. Adblock, for far more efficient blocking than filter.ini, CSS cludges, or external apps.

AdBlock is an external app. It is a third party addon. There are many ways to block ads in Opera by using third party addons.

And no, Opera 8 has nothing to offer to compete with those extensions.

Actually, weather, etc. can easily be done by using panels.

Opera 6 was a complete rewrite from the previous Opera versions. Opera 7 was also a major rewrite of the Opera core.

Opera 6 was not a complete rewrite, but it did add stuff like Unicode. It was Opera 7 which was the major rewrite. In a way, Opera 7 is Opera 1.0.

[Chode]

Opera 6 was not a complete rewrite, but it did add stuff like Unicode. It was Opera 7 which was the major rewrite. In a way, Opera 7 is Opera 1.0.

585360604[/snapback]

Whoops. You're right :pinch:

[+unabatedshagie Subscriber¹]

The core of opera 8 beta has been re-written which is why it's not 7.60 and 8 beta.

[SpetzNazz]

screw them all , use IE (Y)

[Krudomanic]

The one and only Firefox :D

[fanboynz]

Who cares, as long as it's not IE

585340349[/snapback]

the problem with the statement is that opera fanboys are annoyed with the attention firefox is receiving, as you'll notice some even use anti-firefox images in there sigs. Trying to debate whats free and whats not, whats bloated and whats not... In some ways its best for opera fanboys to back the spreadfirefox campaign, why? because it promotes better standards compliant webpages (in the quest to offer compatibility for firefox), and aslong as Opera can maintain the codebase to similar level of compatibility with CSS[1-3]/DHTML/XML/Javascript etc, then it should render well in both browsers.

However, I disagree with Operas default user-agent is IE, infact Mozilla, Firefox, Konq, Lynx, Safari, Netscape have done well on there own user agents. Why is Opera any different? I dont mind people changing there useragents, but the Default? No other browser I know uses another browsers useragent by default, Shows a lack of support in there own product.

Edited January 26, 2005 by mdew

[x-byte]

The core of opera 8 beta has been re-written which is why it's not 7.60 and 8 beta.

585360735[/snapback]

Source? I remember reading an article about why it got the name "Opera 8" instead of Opera 7.60. But I can't seem to find it again. But I can't recall reading about any rewrite for the code...

I'll try to find the article, but I think it will be difficult.

However, I disagree with Operas default user-agent is IE, infact Mozilla, Firefox, Konq, Lynx, Safari, Netscape have done well on there own user agents. Why is Opera any different? I dont mind people changing there useragents, but the Default? No other browser I know uses another browsers useragent by default, Shows a lack of support in there own product.

The reason Opera uses IE6.0 as default useragent, is because then sites not following standards will be viewed simular to the way IE would view it. It have nothing to do with lack of support.

[worbd]

the problem with the statement is that opera fanboys are annoyed with the attention firefox is receiving

You are getting it wrong again. People are getting annoyed with the flood of mindless Firefox drones that bash all other browsers without actually knowing what they are talking about.

Firefox getting attention is good for Opera, since Opera is usually mentioned when Firefox is. That's not the problem. The problem is that Firefox fans that make statements about Firefox's superiority haven't even tried the other options enough to make such statements about how perfect Firefox is and how crappy everything else is.

as you'll notice some even use anti-firefox images in there sigs.

I see this as a direct response to having Firefox forced down people's throats wherever they go. It's not just "Firefox is great, you should try it", it's "you stupid idiot, you should be using Firefox, not that crap".

However, I disagree with Operas default user-agent is IE, infact Mozilla, Firefox, Konq, Lynx, Safari, Netscape have done well on there own user agents.

I beg to differ. Internet Explorer identifies as Mozilla, and I do believe that Safari, too, does that. Firefox identifies itself as Mozilla in the useragent string, and reports Netscape for navigator.appName.

Why is Opera any different?

It isn't. You just think it is because you haven't bothered to check the facts... :no:

I dont mind people changing there useragents, but the Default? No other browser I know uses another browsers useragent by default, Shows a lack of support in there own product.

This is a typical uninformed and FUD-like statement by a Firefox fan who is repeating misconceptions he has heard elsewhere without even bothering to check his facts. Or you are making groundless claims to score cheap points in a pointless debate.

Opera spoofing as MSIE does not show a lack of support for their own product. It is a direct result of web sites checking the useragent string and blocking any browser which is not MSIE or Netscape. By identifying as MSIE by default, Opera can bypass these lame detection scripts, which means that more pages start working.

Seriously, why do you even bother to say that Opera "shows a lack of support in their own product"? It's nothing but trolling and flamebait, plain and simple. Now do you understand why people are getting annoyed with knowitall Firefox fanboys who keep forcing Firefox down their throats and lying and making snide remarks about other people's browser of choice?

[+unabatedshagie Subscriber¹]

Source? I remember reading an article about why it got the name "Opera 8" instead of Opera 7.60. But I can't seem to find it again. But I can't recall reading about any rewrite for the code...

I'll try to find the article, but I think it will be difficult.

linky

[x-byte]

linky

585360863[/snapback]

Thanks. That's the article I was talking about.. Forgot about the core rewrite in it. :)

[fanboynz]

The reason Opera uses IE6.0 as default useragent, is because then sites not following standards will be viewed simular to the way IE would view it. It have nothing to do with lack of support.

Umm, it'll render the page as IE6 regardless whether the page is standards compliant or not. Your're implying that the entire web is non-standards complient, only writen for IE6, therefore the Operas default useragent is fine. Maybe Opera should take leaf from firefox, and have a better quirks mode.

So how is Opera different to Firefox/Mozilla/Safari rendering non-standards compliant pages? Your answer doesnt address the issue, other browsers will render non-complient/badly writen webpages with their native user agents without too many issues. Opera has to lie to view webpages, seems strange.

[x-byte]

Umm, it'll render the page as IE6 regardless whether the page is standards compliant or not. Your're implying that the entire web is non-standards complient, only writen for IE6, therefore the Operas default useragent is fine. Maybe Opera should take leaf from firefox, and have a better quirks mode.

So how is Opera different to Firefox/Mozilla/Safari rendering non-standards compliant pages? Your answer doesnt address the issue, other browsers will render non-complient/badly writen webpages with their native user agents without too many issues. Opera has to lie to view webpages, seems strange.

585360890[/snapback]

I'm not qualified to answer about the quirks mode. But Opera doesn't lie when it identify with some other identifier. :rolleyes:

I've used Opera since 2002 and I've seldom visited pages that doesn't render properly. I use Opera as identifier. Wonder how wrong the browser statistics is about IE's marked share because of Opera identify as IE by default.

Opera support web standards and CSS standards. It's bad webcode that makes web complecant browsers display them improperly.

[liquilife]

Ok, I think it's easily agreeable that Firefox and Opera are both great browsers. Both can easily replace Internet Explorer. Both recieve a lot of attention on this forum. Opera offers a huge collection of features that is bundled with the Opera download, which the user base seems to enjoy. Firefox comes in a simple clean package and the user base enjoys customizing their browser with ONLY the additional features they want. Some people think Opera is a victim of feature bloat and prefer Firefox. Some people dont' like the task of customizing their browser so they prefer Opera. That alone probably evens out the playing field. What gives Firefox the edge over Opera is the fact that it is free. No banners. Free. This is what will allow Firefox to run away with the small time browser race on a global level. The average user has not had to pay for a browser for many many years and they will not want to in the future.

I am not putting down Opera. I confess it is a good browser, but there is no argument that Firefox has one heck of a running start and will only continue to grow it's userbase at dramatic levels. If you choose Opera, good for you. I'm happy for you. You will be in the minority but your browser is still good.

[juan]

IMHO Firefox just feels nicer to use, so like most suggests it depends. Might as well download and try both, see which one is more comfortable and stick with it.

[vcv]

CSS cludges,

"CSS Cludges" is a core part of how firefox extensions work.

And no, Opera 8 has nothing to offer to compete with those extensions.

585360498[/snapback]

Panels. Besides, there are still a ton of core features in Opera that Firefox can not match even with extensions yet. A few they won't be able to match.

the problem with the statement is that opera fanboys are annoyed with the attention firefox is receiving,

No. The "opera fanboys" are annoyed with nothing more than people spreading misinformation about Opera, and this has been discussed many times already in this thread. Either some of you have short memory spans, didn't read the thread before posting, or refuse to accept it.

However, I disagree with Operas default user-agent is IE, infact Mozilla, Firefox, Konq, Lynx, Safari, Netscape have done well on there own user agents. Why is Opera any different? I dont mind people changing there useragents, but the Default? No other browser I know uses another browsers useragent by default, Shows a lack of support in there own product.

585360789[/snapback]

Already been discussed, but.. Opera still sends Opera in it's UA string. IE sends Mozilla in it's UA string, along with Safari. Opera identifies as IE by default at the request of it's user base. People were getting annoyed with pages not displaying properly, and having Opera identify as IE by default addresses this a bit. Now with more awareness of alternative browsers and standards, it is starting to become less of a need to identify as IE. In times I am sure that Opera will set the def. identifier back to Opera when they feel it outways setting it to IE by default.

Umm, it'll render the page as IE6 regardless whether the page is standards compliant or not. Your're implying that the entire web is non-standards complient, only writen for IE6, therefore the Operas default useragent is fine. Maybe Opera should take leaf from firefox, and have a better quirks mode.

Better quirks mode? Do you have any idea what you are actually talking about? It has NOTHING, and i mean NOTHING, to do with the quirks mode.

So how is Opera different to Firefox/Mozilla/Safari rendering non-standards compliant pages? Your answer doesnt address the issue, other browsers will render non-complient/badly writen webpages with their native user agents without too many issues. Opera has to lie to view webpages, seems strange.

585360890[/snapback]

They don't have to deal with sites sending bad scripts. Opera has to "lie" because sites discriminate. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS? Let me try to explain it for you again.

(1) Opera identifies as IE

(2) Site thinks it's IE and sends it code that is known to work in IE

(3) Opera renders page fine

or

(1) Opera identifies as Opera

(2) Site sends it different script or asys "Use a different browser"

(3) Opera must identify as IE or be victim to bad code

Obviously in this case, Opera is perfectly capable of rendering the page, but it has to go out of it's way to get the code and html that works right, because of discrimination.

and the user base enjoys customizing their browser

I enjoy customizing my browser too, and it's easier to do in Opera. It's so easy to modify key bindings, it's amazing.

[vcv]

Some people dont' like the task of customizing their browser so they prefer Opera.

See above.

What gives Firefox the edge over Opera is the fact that it is free. No banners. Free.

Not THE advantage, but AN advantage.

This is what will allow Firefox to run away with the small time browser race on a global level. The average user has not had to pay for a browser for many many years and they will not want to in the future.

I can't argue with that, because you're right. FREE free is more important to most people than what's best.

You will be in the minority but your browser is still good.

585360939[/snapback]

Is that supposed to be some sort of cheap jab? It sure seems like it.

What I want to know, is why Firefox still hasn't added support for the CSS outline property even though they've known about it for at least 5 years.

[SerialStorm]

Firefox all the way :happy:

[vcv]

Firefox all the way :happy:

585361581[/snapback]

Thank you for actually reading the original post and your wonderful contribution to this thread.

[vip]

Thank you for actually reading the original post and your wonderful contribution to this thread.

585361629[/snapback]

haha, that's a lot of peoples 'intelligent' response :p