FireFox or Opera ?

[tiagosilva29]

I tried Opera the other day... and it sucked.

Very slow and 2 times the memory usage of Firefox.

[d_ralphie]

Your're implying that the entire web is non-standards complient, only writen for IE6, therefore the Operas default useragent is fine. Maybe Opera should take leaf from firefox, and have a better quirks mode.

you don't know what you are talking about. quirks mode has got nothing to do with the useragent string. and yes, the entire web is non-standard, just about. pick a random site and run it through the html validator.

So how is Opera different to Firefox/Mozilla/Safari rendering non-standards compliant pages?

not very different, actually. the biggest problem is with scripts specifically detecting opera and then sending non-working code. if they just treated opera like any other browser, those pages would work just fine.

Your answer doesnt address the issue, other browsers will render non-complient/badly writen webpages with their native user agents without too many issues. Opera has to lie to view webpages, seems strange.

how difficult is it to get through to you? just about ALL browsers fake the useragent string.

MSIE IDENTIFIES AS MOZILLA

SAFARI IDENTIFIES AS MOZILLA (iirc)

FIREFOX IDENTIFIES AS MOZILLA/NETSCAPE

how bloody hard is it to actually READ before posting? the stuff you posted was answered by worbd, so why do you keep repeating the same crap over and over again?

I tried Opera the other day... and it sucked.

Very slow and 2 times the memory usage of Firefox.

thank you for proving our point about mindless firefox fanboy drones who spread fud and lies about opera, but don't really know what they are talking about.

[d_ralphie]

Opera offers a huge collection of features that is bundled with the Opera download, which the user base seems to enjoy. Firefox comes in a simple clean package and the user base enjoys customizing their browser with ONLY the additional features they want. Some people think Opera is a victim of feature bloat and prefer Firefox.

'feature bloat', and still smaller, faster and more efficient than firefox.

THE IRONY!

Some people dont' like the task of customizing their browser so they prefer Opera.

opera is easier to customize than firefox for most people.

This is what will allow Firefox to run away with the small time browser race on a global level. The average user has not had to pay for a browser for many many years and they will not want to in the future.

you don't have to pay for opera either. you can download it and use it for free.

as for 'the average user', why wouldn't he pay if he wants to? am i suddenly a freak for having paid for something? you firefox zealots sure love to insult people.

If you choose Opera, good for you. I'm happy for you. You will be in the minority but your browser is still good.

at least opera users have made a conscious choice based on the quality of the program, and not just had it forced down their throats.

[liquilife]

Whoa, whoa. Calm down. I fully admitted earlier that both browsers are excellent. I stated a fact that Firefox will run away with the small-time browser race. We all know this. This is not a slam on Opera. The reasoning for this was the average consumer will choose firefox over opera anyday simply because of no banners nor needing to pay to remove that banner. What you really need to understand is that the people from Neowin is not a fair representation of the average computer user. You all come here because you are computer savvy and like to talk anything computer related. However, you represent a spec of the overall population of computer users. You know EXACTLY what you want your browser to do. The average user just wants a browser. They see a banner and simply decide to try something different. THAT is what makes the average user choose Firefox. Remember, I'm not talking about the neowin people, I'm talking about the far majority of basic internet users that you do not take into consideration. They don't weigh in performance results, they don't study CSS standards and the support from that browser nor do they care.

That damn banner will prevent Opera from going big time. Firefox is steam rolling right now. Their marketing efforts are gearing towards the average internet user, and they are simply doing a damn good job at it. That is the only point I am making. They are both quality programs. You have no right to accuse me of forcing firefox down your throat because I've done no such thing, and you know it. You also have no right to say Firefox is not a quality program, just like I have no rights to bash Opera. I just don't like the banner. You have simply decided Opera is better for you. So calm down, take a deep breath. It will be ok. :)

[iconboy]

i cant say im a super genius when it comes to internet browsing technologies. But i use Opera. Tried Firefox once when it was still in its infancy and i dont remember it being as versatile as opera, but that was a long time ago. One thing that really annoys me however is that for quite a few homepages i still have to use IE! :( i dont think we can ever get away from ie, for doing such simple things as google mail, a lot of other web mail places, places that use imbeded flash and finally internet banking- I cant do these things in opera, and although its not hard to open IE every now and then to do it, its annoying. Im gunna try firefox again- i find that opera really slows down after a ton of use, and im the guy who never closes opera, opens a new tab everytime i want to visit another webpage.

[megamanXplosion]

However, I disagree with Operas default user-agent is IE, infact Mozilla, Firefox, Konq, Lynx, Safari, Netscape have done well on there own user agents. Why is Opera any different?

IE identifies as itself and mozilla. Mozilla identifies as itself but allows people to create their own UA strings. Firefox does the same and even identifies small parts as Netscape. I don't know what Lynx identifies as, but it's irrelevant because webmasters really have no reason to target Lynx. Netscape, if I recall correctly, used to identify as Internet Explorer and is currently identifying as Mozilla. I imagine that Konquerer identifies itself as Mozilla (it uses a rendering engine similar to Gecko so it would likely want to receive code for that engine), just a guess though. Opera identifies as itself and Internet Explorer at the same time. All browsers have had their individual "reasons" to be blocked. The little guys are always put at a disadvantage when it comes to ignorance, and that includes Opera.

[liquilife]

iconboy, the important thing is that you are not using Internet Explorer as your primary browser. :) If you do try Firefox, try using the "Open in IE" extension. Makes it really easy to right click in a page and select that to auto open IE to that same page. I end up using it a few times a month. Who knows.. opera may already have this.

[betasp]

All browsers have had their individual "reasons" to be blocked. The little guys are always put at a disadvantage when it comes to ignorance, and that includes Opera.

I always email every site the does not work with Opera or Firefox and point out that they are both more standard complaint and that IE has a shrinking market share. Usually, I get back something saying that the issue will be addressed. I have seen two sites begin to support both browers within a month of my emails.

[d_ralphie]

One thing that really annoys me however is that for quite a few homepages i still have to use IE! :( i dont think we can ever get away from ie, for doing such simple things as google mail, a lot of other web mail places, places that use imbeded flash and finally internet banking- I cant do these things in opera

opera 8 works with gmail.

flash works fine in opera.

internet banking works fine too, but some banks are known to block opera.

if you are having problems, go to the opera forum and list the sites.

[ZZOOzzoo]

I tried Opera the other day... and it sucked.

Very slow and 2 times the memory usage of Firefox.

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Wow... just perfect example of fanboys who never used Opera.

:rolleyes:

[tiagosilva29]

thank you for proving our point about mindless firefox fanboy drones who spread fud and lies about opera, but don't really know what they are talking about.

Wow... just perfect example of fanboys who never used Opera.

:rolleyes:

Uhm... let me put it this way: Screw you, Opera fanboys. I'm not a Firefox fanboy, since I use Internet Explorer, Konqueror, Firefox and Galeon daily, If you want to bash somebody, you better do it with somebody else. Your arrogance is quite irritating.

I used Opera, Firefox and Internet Explorer with National [Portuguese] and International contents. And even tried the ****ing FTP functions (not with Firefox).

My test machine? See my signature.

My connection? 640 Kbps [d] / 128 Kbps.

Plain simple: was slower in both national and international contents.

In a Opera/Firefox dispute, Firefox won.

I don't even want to talk about IE.

Thanks for your productive comments about a "fanboysism" that doesn't exist, you have been reported.

[Help]

at least opera users have made a conscious choice based on the quality of the program, and not just had it forced down their throats.

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"forced down their throats." ??? WTF?? so you're saying that Mozilla had some how controlled us into clicking that "download firefox now!" link??

It's funny that you say that Firefox fanboys spread lies (in your sig) but it is very apparent to me that the person who is spreading lies in here is you.

[ZZOOzzoo]

Uhm... let me put it this way: Screw you, Opera fanboys. I'm not a Firefox fanboy, since I use Internet Explorer, Konqueror, Firefox and Galeon daily, If you want to bash somebody, you better do it with somebody else. Your arrogance is quite irritating.

I used Opera, Firefox and Internet Explorer with National [Portuguese] and International contents. And even tried the ****ing FTP functions (not with Firefox).

My test machine? See my signature.

My connection? 640 Kbps [d] / 128 Kbps.

Plain simple: was slower in both national and international contents.

In a Opera/Firefox dispute, Firefox won.

I don't even want to talk about IE.

Thanks for your productive comments about a "fanboysism" that doesn't exist, you have been reported.

585363850[/snapback]

Hmm... I use IE too, I just found it ridiculous that you said Opera's memory usage is twice as much as Firefox.

In fact, Opera uses LESS memory than Firefox, and that's one of points people in this thread have been trying to make, to convince FX users that Opera is not bloated.

Sorry if you're offended by the word 'fanboy', but your invalid statement just makes it looks like you never tried Opera before.

[tiagosilva29]

Hmm... I use IE too, I just found it ridiculous that you said Opera's memory usage is twice as much as Firefox.

In fact, Opera uses LESS memory than Firefox, and that's one of points people in this thread have been trying to make, to convince FX users that Opera is not bloated.

Sorry if you're offended by the word 'fanboy', but your invalid statement just makes it looks like you never tried Opera before.

Invalid?

My statement is quite valid. Opera uses more memory than Firefox in my computer.

Do you want me to install Opera again and take screenshots of the memory usage?

Please, don't make me lose my patience. Questioning my ability to read numbers and my temporal perception is just not good.

[vcv]

Invalid?

My statement is quite valid. Opera uses more memory than Firefox in my computer.

Do you want me to install Opera again and take screenshots of the memory usage?

Please, don't make me lose my patience. Questioning my ability to read numbers and my temporal perception is just not good.

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Try changing how much memory opera can use for cache in preferences.

Honestly, I'm shocked that Firefox would run faster on your machine, as old as it is, than Opera. Opera has always been known and is known for running very well on older machines. A little tinkering and I'm sure you'll find Opera to be fine.

[Veedems Veteran]

For the love of God, can you people not act like normal human beings for more than 5 minutes? Talk about thism aturely or shut up, simple as that. I'm tired of getting non stop report after report because someone posted something that someone else doesn't agree with. Get over it. Different people have different needs. Each browser meets a different user's needs. Who cares which browser the next person uses?

[liquilife]

Haha well.. I guess that about sums up 76 pages of discussion on the Firefox/Opera discussion. What did we learn? Apparently people are passionate about their choice of browser.

[Chode]

^ agreed

^^double agreed.

This thread is just going round and round in the same circles over and over, and getting more and more aggressive as time goes on.

I think every aspect of both browsers has been discussed in large detail several times over and over, there really isn't anything left for this thread but the non-stop flaming.

[Michael_C]

I've used Opera since 2002 and I've seldom visited pages that doesn't render properly. I use Opera as identifier. Wonder how wrong the browser statistics is about IE's marked share because of Opera identify as IE by default.

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When Opera is set to identify as IE it still has Opera in the user-agent string:

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 7.60

And as Opera:

Opera/7.60 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en)

FF 1.0:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041109 Firefox/1.0

[worbd]

Plain simple: was slower in both national and international contents.

In a Opera/Firefox dispute, Firefox won.

If Opera is "much slower", then something is wrong. We've already established the fact that some sites discriminate against Opera and send content uncompressed, while Firefox gets the content gzip compressed. But that shouldn't be too noticeable to most people.

Thanks for your productive comments about a "fanboysism" that doesn't exist, you have been reported.

I am sure they will look kindly at your comments too. Things like "X sucks" really make for a calm and sensible debate.

"forced down their throats." ??? WTF?? so you're saying that Mozilla had some how controlled us into clicking that "download firefox now!" link??

This has been explained. I believe it refers to the way Firefox fans constantly make derogatory remarks about other browsers, spread FUD and lies and so on, just to get people to use Firefox instead of whatever they are comfortable with.

I've found Firefox fans to be quite bad in a few forums I frequent. They always go on about Firefox, even when it's absolutely not appropriate, such as threads discussing Opera. Why do they feel the need to ruin people's threads by interrupting people and telling them what idiots they are for not running Firefox?

That's what people mean by "forced down their throats".

It's funny that you say that Firefox fanboys spread lies (in your sig) but it is very apparent to me that the person who is spreading lies in here is you.

If you had taken the time to read the thread, we've already explained that these things are a reaction to the constant attack by Firefox users against Opera users. It seems that a lot of Opera users are simply fed up, and not getting anywhere with arguing rationally, they instead behave the same way as many Firefox fanboys. An unfortunate development, but I guess people can only take FUD, lies and attacks for so long.

I'm tired of getting non stop report after report because someone posted something that someone else doesn't agree with. Get over it. Different people have different needs. Each browser meets a different user's needs. Who cares which browser the next person uses?

This is very true, but I think a lot of Opera users are getting fed up with the misinformation and FUD spread about Opera by certain Firefox fans.

When Opera is set to identify as IE it still has Opera in the user-agent string

Nevertheless, some/most of the major stats packages apparently fail to recognize Opera. This has been discussed in the Opera forums, and people actually tested this. The results were everything but encouraging.

[vancity001]

Ok i dont know if i should even bother saying this, as it appears fanboys cant be convinced (and yea call me a fanboy cuz of my sig if u want i really dont care)

Heres how i see the situation. Both are Excellent browsers. Both offer different choices for customization etc. They both kick IE's ass. Some say one is faster than the other, but these days those differences are probably so small that the majority of users wont even notice. Essencially, the two browsers are equal.

Now the only downside to Opera is the Banner Ad. You can all scream and rant that its just a banner, but to me it makes opera feels like trial software. It doesnt feel right. And if you want to complain that nobody really cares about a banner, look at all the fuss about Exeem and the Ads it has (yes more people complain about the banner than about the adware included :wacko: ) Go look up how many patchers there are to take the banner of MSN Messenger. Most people hate banner Ads, and if you can stand them, thats great, but realize that this is the reason FireFox will rise to the top in the small browser race.

And also, to comment on those who say FireFox fanboys attack everything, ive had just as much trouble with opera fanboys attacking FF IE and everything else. Fanboys are Fanboys, no matter who they represent.

[lav-chan]

However, I disagree with Operas default user-agent is IE, infact Mozilla, Firefox, Konq, Lynx, Safari, Netscape have done well on there own user agents. Why is Opera any different? I dont mind people changing there useragents, but the Default? No other browser I know uses another browsers useragent by default, Shows a lack of support in there own product.

585360789[/snapback]

I forgive you for missing this because this thread is like 900 pages long, but i explained that already. It's because stupid people use copy-and-paste browser detection scripts that either are out-dated or operate on the mistaken assumption that Opera 7 is as crappy of a browser as Opera 6 (and earlier) was.

Opera doesn't give the users the interface (Firefox has them way beat with making the default interface look familiar to former IE users), but at least they do their best with the user-agent string, i guess. :/

[THE BAT]

I never use firefox before

so Opera

[ZZOOzzoo]

I never use firefox before

so Opera

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:no:

[Michael_C]

I never use firefox before

so Opera

585372577[/snapback]

How can you make a decent decision without even trying both solutions? :blink: