FireFox or Opera ?

[lav-chan]

I do not lie about anything, especially not Web browsers. Will you guys get the hell over yourselves? We're talking about a little piece of software, this isn't Yalta. If someone says something inaccurate or misleading, it's not a POLITICAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN, it's just inaccurate or misleading. So if you guys could all stop throwing words like 'lie' around like there's this big conspiracy movement to topple your stupid browser, that would be incredibly rad.

Please don't lie to make your browser seem better.

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Right. In-line find was introduced in Opera 6.0 beta 1, which was released in November of 2001. Click those shiny little underlined words and you'll see the change log and the press release.

'Type-Ahead Find' (as it was originally called by Mozilla) was introduced in Mozilla 1.2 alpha, released September of 2002.

Call me a liar again!

This goes the same for pretty much all of Mozilla's 'killer' features. Most of them were invented (or, at the very least, developed into their modern forms) by Opera. The one semi-exception is tabbed browsing -- Opera had supported MDI for ages, but Galeon was the first browser to really use tabs the way we know them. Opera borrowed them from Galeon (and, i think, perfected them)... and then Mozilla borrowed them, in turn, from Opera. Opera was also one of the first browsers to include a built-in pop-up blocker. I don't think it was the first, but, again, they were the ones who perfected it. Opera also invented the search tool bar, if i'm not mistaken. And mouse gestures.

This doesn't make Opera better than Mozilla (or Firefox), of course, and i don't think there's anything wrong with Mozilla having borrowed their ideas. Mozilla sucks enough on its own without even having to worry about arguing over who made what first. Firefox is loads better than Mozilla but i still prefer Opera. (There are a few things i really like about Firetruck, like how its mouse-gestures extension makes that rad line following your cursor.) But... that's how it is. I'm not biassed about it: Most of them WERE invented or perfected by Opera.

As far as 'Firetruck', that was something i came up with on my own (i don't know if other people came up with it independently, but i didn't join some trend or anything) after they thought it would be great to change the name a thousand times (well, maybe just two or three, but it's close to a thousand). It is not meant as some kind of retarded insult like saying 'M$' or 'Winblows'. I think Firetruck is a really cute nickname and if i used Firefox as my browser i would get the extension (Firesomething) that a Firefox user developed to let people do the very same thing that i'm doing: Poking a little fun at Firefox's name changes.

At least, that's my reason. If other people are doing it because they think it's insulting, whatever.

[Chode]

Firetruck's are f*cking awesome so calling firefox firetruck is a complement.

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LOL! And I thought all the fun was gone from this thread :laugh:

[worbd]

but every fkin thread on every fkin forum has some clown with "SPREAD TEH FIREFOX!!!11one" type piece of cack in it :D

u got mozilla.org but when fools do getfirefox.com spreadfirefox.com isleepwithfirefox and omfgilovet3hfirefox sites on the same thing, it gets waring. personally FF is a distant 3rd place browser for me.

It's clever. Nokia, Google and other megacorporations are using Mozilla to rally the people to battle against Microsoft. People think mozilla.org is a grass roots organization, and that all the user did this, without any money what so ever, but Mozilla is thriving because huge corporations are pumping money into it :)

The open-source fans who think that they are fighting the good fight, David vs. Goliath, aren't realizing that it's really Goliath vs. Goliath.

[lav-chan]

And where does that put Opera?

[worbd]

The one semi-exception is tabbed browsing -- Opera had supported MDI for ages, but Galeon was the first browser to really use tabs the way we know them. Opera borrowed them from Galeon

Actually, Opera had tabs before Galeon:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=11681555&sid=139557

NetCaptor introduced tabs to browsing, but Opera already had MDI of course.

[worbd]

And where does that put Opera?

It's a small company, and it does not try to hide the fact that it relies on money to keep going.

[lav-chan]

(That fellow is going to try to use Lynx against my in-line-find arguement, isn't he? I guess if i have to make disclaimers for idiots who rely on literal string comparison instead of this crazy human thing called common sense, i can do that. I MEANT THEY INVENTED IT IN GRAPHICAL WEB BROWSERS.)

Actually, Opera had tabs before Galeon:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=11681555&sid=139557

NetCaptor introduced tabs to browsing, but Opera already had MDI of course.

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I've learnt something new today then! Golly!

It's a small company, and it does not try to hide the fact that it relies on money to keep going.

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Neither does Mozilla. They list on their Web site many of their partners, and they were ridiculously open about the fact that they were funded by AOL before that. Just because they don't list the details of every single partnership they have like Opera does doesn't necessarily mean they're 'hiding' anything.

[worbd]

I'm not saying that Mozilla is necessarily hiding things, although that page doesn't explain how they are funded, or that they receive massive support from huge corporations (other than IBM). And people still seem to have the impression that Mozilla is David fighting Goliath, which isn't quite true.

I've seen someone describing what's going on is Mozilla acting as a cover operation for aspiring monopolists (other than Microsoft), and although I'm not sure that is a fair description, one can get suspicious when "everyone" seems to think of Mozilla as this cute little organization that does all these good things with help from the grass roots, when it is clearly an organization which is relies heavily on money from megacorporations, and they aren't quite as open about everything they do.

But never mind, I'm sure the Mozilla fans won't get hurt by seeing this as participating in a "revolution" where the "little guy" fights the "big guy" (as opposed to everyone trying to take down Microsoft, including other huge corporeations ;))...

By the way, who said that Mozilla uses XSLT for the UI? I thought they were using XUL?!

[Xtreme $niper]

I have a question. In Opera 8 beta, when posting on some message boards, I press add reply, and it goes and says "completed" but it doesnt refresh to show my post. Sometimes it does, most of the time it doesnt. So I have to refresh it manually, and my post is there. Any idea how to fix that?

[trigger_my_passion]

I used to have this prob in Opera 7 but not in 8 beta any more. Try posting in Opera's forums.

I have a question. In Opera 8 beta, when posting on some message boards, I press add reply, and it goes and says "completed" but it doesnt refresh to show my post. Sometimes it does, most of the time it doesnt. So I have to refresh it manually, and my post is there. Any idea how to fix that?

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[jantjetest]

I have a question. In Opera 8 beta, when posting on some message boards, I press add reply, and it goes and says "completed" but it doesnt refresh to show my post. Sometimes it does, most of the time it doesnt. So I have to refresh it manually, and my post is there. Any idea how to fix that?

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ctrl+f12->history and cache->check documents->always

[randy_tho]

I've just always thought Opera's name was funny. It's kind of feminine. lol

What is the origins of the name?

[M/\TT]

I use Firefox as my main browser. I tried Opera but found the default layout way too busy for my liking. Yes I could change the settings to something I like but that first impression put me off. Un-installed Opera.

[niuus]

Is there any extension to save an MHT file (Web archive, single file) within Opera or FireFox? If so, provide the link please... i would really like to left IE forever :D

Opera is great. FireFox is great (and Open Source). IE is... well, let's just leave it that way. :laugh:

[Xtreme $niper]

ctrl+f12->history and cache->check documents->always

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That helps having the "recent posts" always updated, but it doesnt help the problem with the browser not refreshing the page after sending a post. I mean it doesnt even do anything other than send the data. It sends the data and then it sits there saying its completed sending of data (in the status bar). So it not a cache problem.

edit: I also want to point out that Blogger does not work at all in Opera.

Edited February 23, 2005 by Xtreme $niper

[Xtreme $niper]

Alright so heres my final impressions on Firefox 1.0 vs Opera 8 Beta.

Firefox -

PROS:

Runs on Gecko engine

Built-in popup blocker

Ability to add hundreds of extensions

Ability to use themes

Add unlimited search engines on the drop down menu next to the address bar

Nice and compact download manager

A lot of features are already implemented into it, instead of having to mess around with config files.

Built-in RSS support

CONS:

Usage of RAM is very high often times, especially after long periods of use. (not a issue to me because I have 1gig of ram)

Overall appearance not too customizable without hunting down extensions.

Opera -

PROS:

Built-in popup blocker

Ability to use themes

Search engines are customizable* (see CONS)

Download manager that allows for resuming

Not too RAM heavy

Customizable toolbars

Double, triple clicking on words and sentances comes up with cool options

CONS:

Some sites do not load properly, and some not at all (Making a new post in Blogger is not possible)

Some sites take longer to load because gzip not enabled on some sites

*Each search engine takes up a large portion of the bar, making it look cluttered.

Download manager takes up whole tab (annoying for me personally)

Download manager gave me troubles, was not able to keep a solid connection often

Ad-supported if you do not pay

To customize some things, you need to edit config files (aka, not noob friendly)

Conclusion -

All in all, its up to you and what you are willing to give up to get. Personally, I have tried numerous times to give Opera the chance to stay on my computer, but frankly I just cant do it. Most of the sites I go to are giving Opera problems, I feel that Firefox loads up faster and loads pages faster, and I like having my Yahoo Toolbar. I also dont like how Opera doesnt change the mouse pointer to a text pointer when selecting text. And when I middle click, it doesnt make it look like I clicked it like it does in Firefox.

Also, in some message boards I was having troubles posting. It's just these little things that end up making me go right back to Firefox. I mean especially since Blogger is something I use a lot, I need to have a browser that can actually let me use Blogger. I feel like by using Opera I am putting an extra effort into actually liking the browser. I'm just far too spoiled by Firefox.

But thats just my opinion. Hopefully this helped some people who were sort of clueless on the subject. I am positive I missed a lot of PROS and CONS but I listed the important ones and the ones that actually came to mind.

[Kieron]

I want to buy Opera 8 beta but my freind gave me a Reg crack for it..

[vcv]

Runs on Gecko engine

That's not a PRO. You'll have to get specific if you think Gecko is an advantage.

Add unlimited search engines on the drop down menu next to the address bar

You can do this with Opera as well.

Nice and compact download manager

Very arguable. Opera's is very compact, and it even resumes where FF does not.

Some sites take longer to load because gzip not enabled on some sites

That's pretty much Google, and is not Opera's fault or problem.

*Each search engine takes up a large portion of the bar, making it look cluttered.

No, actually it works pretty much the same as Opera. You CAN add multiple search fields however (Can't in FF)

Download manager takes up whole tab (annoying for me personally)

You can make it stay in a panel.

I want to buy Opera 8 beta but my freind gave me a Reg crack for it..

Are you asking to be reported?

[Xtreme $niper]

1. I stated further down that opera does infact support resuming downloads, maybe if you read that you should have taken your comment off your post.

2. I dont care if its google's fault or operas, the fact of the matter is, the Opera browser has this problem and if neither party will fix it, then why should I be the one to suffer?

[vcv]

1. I stated further down that opera does infact support resuming downloads, maybe if you read that you should have taken your comment off your post.

You are right. My sincere apologies.

2. I dont care if its google's fault or operas, the fact of the matter is, the Opera browser has this problem and if neither party will fix it, then why should I be the one to suffer?

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But there is a "fix" for Opera. Identify as IE or Mozilla on those pages and it works fine. I don't see how Opera can be expected to do anything more than that. It's not possible, save hard coding it to identify as IE or mozilla on certain google sites (can't on Gmail though, as it requires identifying as Opera for it to send the right code).

[Xtreme $niper]

Well I've since set it to identify as Mozilla and 2 cons have been solved. I'm switching back and forth between FF and Opera.

[ZZOOzzoo]

I want to buy Opera 8 beta but my freind gave me a Reg crack for it..

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[arturogoga]

Alright so heres my final impressions on Firefox 1.0 vs Opera 8 Beta.

...

Opera -

PROS:

Built-in popup blocker

Ability to use themes

Search engines are customizable* (see CONS)

Download manager that allows for resuming

Not too RAM heavy

Customizable toolbars

Double, triple clicking on words and sentances comes up with cool options

CONS:

Some sites do not load properly, and some not at all (Making a new post in Blogger is not possible)

Some sites take longer to load because gzip not enabled on some sites

*Each search engine takes up a large portion of the bar, making it look cluttered.

Download manager takes up whole tab (annoying for me personally)

Download manager gave me troubles, was not able to keep a solid connection often

Ad-supported if you do not pay

To customize some things, you need to edit config files (aka, not noob friendly)

...

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Blogger input has worked for me since the first preview release of Opera 8. Weird that it doesn't work on you. Maybe you should try installing the final version, now that it is out.

As for the customization, yes, it is indeed kind of annoying there's no GUI to make things easier, but if you take a look at the Opera forums, it is not that hard. I've modded my search.ini in no time.

The other points are discussed in the attached image

[howb21]

I have not used Opera for myself yet so I have no rights to compare between the 2 current leading browser. My knowledge of browsers only brings me to the fact that Firefox is better that IE. But instead of straying off point and start discussing who invented what first, I believe the community can be more constructive by pinpointing what the exact advantages and disvantages of both are.

From what I have gathered after reading the last few pages of this thread, Opera is less of a resource hog than Firefox, is that true? If the statement has the backing of solid evidence and the difference is significant, I am more than willing to switch over to join the Opera brigade since my computer has only a 1.8GHz processor and 256M RAM. :pinch: So does anyone has an answer to my doubt?

[vcv]

Yes, Opera uses less resources than firefox.