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[_neutrino Veteran]

I'm not brave enough to do Heroics as a healer yet, because my ****ing god, healing is ridiculously hard now. It's like they went from one extreme (very easy) to the other.

That is just because neither you or the people you are healing are in epics anymore.

[firey]

I'm not brave enough to do Heroics as a healer yet, because my ****ing god, healing is ridiculously hard now. It's like they went from one extreme (very easy) to the other.

How is healing hard? I play a Disc Priest and it seems to be as easy as always for me. Shield, Renew, flash heal, pennance.

[enigma-penguin Veteran]

How is healing hard? I play a Disc Priest and it seems to be as easy as always for me. Shield, Renew, flash heal, pennance.

What level are you at right now? I'm hearing complaints all over about healing as disc at 85, mostly about people going oom after every pull/fight and sometimes during (and even when a boss is at 50%-30% health). Some of it has to do with people's mindset;

- Some tanks are chain pulling and not letting healers drink

- Some dps are still pulling threat and expecting a healer to be able to save them because they must top dps

- Healers are using in efficient spells

- Healers are trying to "top up" all members in a fight and wasting a lot of mana

- People are not moving out to aoe damage

- People have no idea what CC is anymore

- People are forgetting they are in Blues and Greens

People need to take a breath, sit back and let a group flow like it used to in early TBC.

As for Disc Priests and 85 healing:

Single target spells
 	        Healing	HPS	HPCT	HPM
Penance	        23831	13244	 13244	8.27
Heal	        12360            5495	6.67
Binding Heal	35655	         26420	6.18
Greater Heal	32972	         14659	5.93
Shield	        15483	         11473	5.28
Flash Heal	24722	         18319	4.29
Renew4*	        11636	 1078	 8622	3.59
Smite	        9311	 	 5175	3.01
*Renew5 has similar efficiency to Flash Heal, and is generally not worth using.

Multi-target spells
 	             Healing	HPS	 HPCT	 HPM
Divine Hymn	     114326     15884    15884	 15.42
Prayer of Mending    35306	 	 26162	 12.70
Prayer of Healing    57958	 	 25768	 10.83
Holy Nova	     12667	 	 12667	 5.47

I play a disc priest and I'm at 85 right now, if I did the above and threw out PW:S,Rn, Fh, Pn - I'd be out of mana in no time in present coefficients. Using smart healing and only using Fh in an emergency I'm usually perfectly fine.

[firey]

What level are you at right now? I'm hearing complaints all over about healing as disc at 85, mostly about people going oom after every pull/fight and sometimes during (and even when a boss is at 50%-30% health). Some of it has to do with people's mindset;

- Some tanks are chain pulling and not letting healers drink

- Some dps are still pulling threat and expecting a healer to be able to save them because they must top dps

- Healers are using in efficient spells

- Healers are trying to "top up" all members in a fight and wasting a lot of mana

- People are not moving out to aoe damage

- People have no idea what CC is anymore

- People are forgetting they are in Blues and Greens

People need to take a breath, sit back and let a group flow like it used to in early TBC.

I play a disc priest and I'm at 85 right now, if I did the above and threw out PW:S,Rn, Fh, Pn - I'd be out of mana in no time in present coefficients. Using smart healing and only using Fh in an emergency I'm usually perfectly fine.

Im still leveling so im 81. So yes I haven't had the end-dungeon experience however this will allow me to kinda see the changes too, so it was more of a question: How is it harder?

Im nothing special, I know in wrath doing what I mentioned above with the gains I was barely ever OOM.

The way I heal is: Tank -> RN Before pull, PW: S and penance / FH when needed. With Ranged DPS I would just RN and penance if low usually they were out of the line of Damage, then melee DPS was more or less the same as the tank, except I would PW: S and let Renew heal them if they got low. Using much of the Mana / Heal returns from Glyphs and the Spec, it made sense to PW: S as I would get x% mana back, then with the Instant Cast Renew the mana cost by default was reduced by x% due to the talent.

I try and keep people topped off if I have the mana, however I always put tank as priority. If a DPS Is low I will ensure they are shielded, and have a renew and throw a Penance on them. At 81 my flash heal does over 15k healing so I can bring people up relatively fast.

Also yea, I think Wrath destroyed a lot of the group mechanics. I noticed in Wrath I never needed to drink, and that if I did it was because a tank was trying to do the entire dungeon holding their breath. As for the DPS that pull threat there isn't much I can do except shield them and try and mitigate as much damage (Pain Supp) as I can for them, otherwise I feel they shouldn't have pulled agro, or should have done something to reduce threat.

Yes, I agree about the use of inneficient spells, as a disc priest our jobs are not to run around and GH everyone, if we get something that procs and the speed/mana is reduce yea go for it, otherwise for us it's burts quick heals that use the least mana and heal for the most. A lot of that is knowing what proc's what, and how you can maximize throughput. As I said aside from the tank I don't worry about the others being topped up, as long as they are above 70% hp I am usually fine to let them do what they have to do.

AOE Damage and people not moving out of it, unless I know I can heal through it, it's a wasted cause they do more harm than good by being alive at that point. And yea with wrath a lot of CC was removed it was run in tank n spank everything, no need to sap, or polly, or shackle, or banish it was run in and hope the heals can keep up. In all honesty, blue''s and greens mean nothing. I got a green robe from a drop that was better in all aspects than my epic t8.5 robe that was fully gemmed and chanted, so the gear doesn't mean everything, it's stats, and knowing how to play your class, which I think a lot of people now adays button mash, kill stuff but don't see how to improve.

[_neutrino Veteran]

spent two or three hours yesterday and im still level 82 doing quest after quest and still there, its taking so long :p i love question though so it works out for me. However, it made me mad that the Free Wil'hai quest was broken, the hotfix for this morning should have fixed it though I will attempt to turn it in when I get home from work this evening.

[Shaun N.]

However, it made me mad that the Free Wil'hai quest was broken, the hotfix for this morning should have fixed it though I will attempt to turn it in when I get home from work this evening.

Broken? I managed it fine last night, What's broken about it?

[_neutrino Veteran]

Once i complete the quest Wavespeaker velorn is no longer present in her little air bubble. so I cannot turn the quest in. However, If i travel into the entrance of Throne of Tides she is standing there prepared to send me back to the surface of the rift however, she will not allow me to turn the quest into her at that location.

in the hotfix this morning

*Players will now be in the correct phase with Wavespeaker Valoren after completing the quest "Communing with the Ancient". Seeing ghost question marks on the mini-map is no fun for anyone.

[enigma-penguin Veteran]

@ firey:

I was fine up until I started hitting 84/85 and the coefficients start working against you, long as you bare that in mind going up you'll be fine. You sound like an old school player so it'll come as no surprise this is more like healing heroics in blues and greens in TBC. To be perfectly honest, I'm THRILLED that healing is a thought process again. Basically the reason it's harder is due to mana management and spell coefficients with the gear available. You'll need to pick the spells you're using and how you're using them instead of just topping people off like we had to in wrath.

You're putting out a lot more mana at 85 than you are at 81 and getting a lot less mana back in return due to how stat requirements per point start getting larger.

[Slane]

[quote[ Some tanks are chain pulling and not letting healers drink

- Some dps are still pulling threat and expecting a healer to be able to save them because they must top dps

- Healers are using in efficient spells

- Healers are trying to "top up" all members in a fight and wasting a lot of mana

- People are not moving out to aoe damage

- People have no idea what CC is anymore

- People are forgetting they are in Blues and Greens

Sounds like a bunch of peeps who started playing in LK.

Even doing Stonecore last night, we did manage to survive groups with no CC or extra groups. Granted I joined a guild on there vent so we could communicate and they weren't idiots. Heroics will be hard to 80% of the WoW population, another 10% will find them challenging but easy to complete if you play properly (me!) and the other 10% are already raiding so who cares about 'em? :p

[treemonster]

Once i complete the quest Wavespeaker velorn is no longer present in her little air bubble. so I cannot turn the quest in. However, If i travel into the entrance of Throne of Tides she is standing there prepared to send me back to the surface of the rift however, she will not allow me to turn the quest into her at that location.

in the hotfix this morning

*Players will now be in the correct phase with Wavespeaker Valoren after completing the quest "Communing with the Ancient". Seeing ghost question marks on the mini-map is no fun for anyone.

can you link the hotfix notes? i was having some issues with phasing and getting quests in hyjal last night.

it sounds like 5mans are more like tbc i guess with needing to slow down and not just spam dps to the max on everything all the time. i was actually surprised at how wotlk 5mans worked compared to what i remember of tbc(and the reasons i quit doing end game pve altogether back then)

i wouldn;t mind a good mix of the overal time spent in each run and the boss scripts not being overly annoying or as punishing compred to tbc in wotlk, but with the overall style and needing to cc and so on of tbc.

5mans in teh last couple weeks of wotlk were basicaly an aoe rotation(which mine was a whole two buttons) for every trash pull, and arcane blast spam after blowing CDs for every single boss. it can be fun at first but i can definitely see it getting boring pretty quickly.

[_neutrino Veteran]

I attempted to post the whole thing however, it was too long here is a direct link

Hotfix Notes

[the evn show]

another 10% will find them challenging but easy to complete if you play properly (me!) and the other 10% are already raiding so who cares about 'em? :p

So i'm casual now just because we moved our first raid to Saturday so people can go see Tron with their girlfriends?

[treemonster]

I attempted to post the whole thing however, it was too long here is a direct link

Hotfix Notes

thx :)

So i'm casual now just because we moved our first raid to Saturday so people can go see Tron with their girlfriends?

everyone knows if you aren't getting world firsts on every new content patch and expansion you aren't hardcore bro :rofl:

[_neutrino Veteran]

thx :)

no prob. I kinda troll the Blizzard forums frequently since I cannot play wow at work I have to get my fix somewhere.

[the evn show]

everyone knows if you aren't getting world firsts on every new content patch and expansion you aren't hardcore bro :rofl:

8/12 easy mode this early is cool but it's not really isn't going to be a big help because world+dog is probably scheduling their real raids for next week (leveling professions, farming heroics, etc).

Clearing it by Thursday vs Monday is more a function of "who took days off work" than skill IMO but grats to them all the same. My major concern is getting through all the content before they nerf the crap out of it. It's not particularly challenging but I hate the though of missing out on the most difficult stuff we're likely to see for a 4 or 5 months. Heroic raiding starts Tuesday, should be awesome and I'm looking forward to the races on our server (what some random guild in Europe does isn't as interesting to me as what my friends alliance side, or in the other horde guilds are up to).

We're farming heroics now - raiding saturday or sunday and maybe monday. I'll likely level my paladin over the christmas break so I'm good to do alt runs in the new year.

Goblin priest in full Tier 5 with shadow form, wings, and orb buff: impossibly cute & incredibly cool looking.

I ended up making my priest female because they have a bondage themed /joke and the males don't.

[_neutrino Veteran]

Honestly i think being able to level that quickly and complete content that quickly is sort of a waste of my money, I plan on taking a good week or two to get to 85 and then i can work on getting heroic gear and completing my professions and whatnot however, until then I am going to enjoy myself questing and reading through the lore of each zone rather than rushing from one place to another and not understanding what is going on in any of them :D

[treemonster]

no prob. I kinda troll the Blizzard forums frequently since I cannot play wow at work I have to get my fix somewhere.

cool stuff :) unfortunately i didn't see the fixes to hyjal phasing and quests i was looking for. maybe they just went undocumented.

it seems i can't get any more quests there due to issues with my phasing not working and not getting go to the next quest giver quests after finishing the chains in each area.

by the time we finished in hyjal we both couldn't see each other and my bro had to fly to org because no matter where we went inside hyjal we were in a different phase. keeping in mind we had both been in party for a couple hours at that point. but his quest areas were out of order compared when i did them, and when we were on teh same parts progression of quests were out of order between us.

8/12 easy mode this early is cool but it's not really isn't going to be a big help because world+dog is probably scheduling their real raids for next week (leveling professions, farming heroics, etc).

Clearing it by Thursday vs Monday is more a function of "who took days off work" than skill IMO but grats to them all the same. My major concern is getting through all the content before they nerf the crap out of it. It's not particularly challenging but I hate the though of missing out on the most difficult stuff we're likely to see for a 4 or 5 months. Heroic raiding starts Tuesday, should be awesome and I'm looking forward to the races on our server (what some random guild in Europe does isn't as interesting to me as what my friends alliance side, or in the other horde guilds are up to).

We're farming heroics now - raiding saturday or sunday and maybe monday. I'll likely level my paladin over the christmas break so I'm good to do alt runs in the new year.

Goblin priest in full Tier 5 with shadow form, wings, and orb buff: impossibly cute & incredibly cool looking.

I ended up making my priest female because they have a bondage themed /joke and the males don't.

yeah i agree about firsts often being about who took time off work to no life it for the first few days. imho for raiders the best groups are teh ones who clear and put new content on farm before it gets nerfed.

server firsts are cool and all, but honestly i find they're so done to death in wow compared to my older mmo's.

there's swtor guild that i've mentioned before in this thread that brags up their region firsts in their individual member's former wow guilds, and talks big about how they are going to get every single world first in swtor, even before any info is released on what kind of end game content there will be if any. nevermind that the whole point of swtor seems to be to enjoy the story telling pillar rather than speed level through it. then again they brag about doing boss kills on wow p servers on their guild news. and one member claims the leader is stilla ctive in his wow raiding guild and links his profile, then the leader hismelf says he hasn't played that toon in months and sold his account. yet the profile shows recent achivements and boss kills, and is still in the same guild. so something is fishy with these guys.

Honestly i think being able to level that quickly and complete content that quickly is sort of a waste of my money, I plan on taking a good week or two to get to 85 and then i can work on getting heroic gear and completing my professions and whatnot however, until then I am going to enjoy myself questing and reading through the lore of each zone rather than rushing from one place to another and not understanding what is going on in any of them :D

yeah i like to take my time to a certain extent too. i don't like going too slow as far as pace of leveling goes, and i felt in wotlk leveling questing was too many quests per level, with some zones having too many quests and others having too few. but i also got alot less world pvp in wotlk too which didn't help.

that being said i don't often read the quest text except if need the useful info in it for some reason. i get a general sense of the story line just by what each quest has me doing though, and so far the quests themselves have been fairly interesting to do without too many gimmicks or time spent purely running around.

hyjal so far seems fairly well designed and well paced. it helps having epic flying, and specifically flying right from teh start of the leveling content. i was only half paying attention to teh quests themselves in vashjir last night between the beer and the pvp, but the swimming combat reminded me of the promise of flying combat/pvp in aion and i couldn't help but think "this is flying combat done right" melee seemed to have no issues hitting other players due to z axis issues like aion had, there was no "flight timer" to worry about and so on.

overall i feel so far at maybe 40% or so into 81 that progress isn't too slow or too fast, but just about right. each area has a good number of quests and i'm moving to new areas before i get bored of the current one.

[Got3n]

Ok so my digi copy did me well, logged in at basically 1205am and started playing, 85'ed on my rogue last night and time to move on to my paladin. So far I like it, actually have to play now, and I died so many times its making me smile.

Also won http://www.wowhead.com/item=63043#comments last night with a 100,next one was a 99, i was soooooo excited. I never win or get cool mounts.

[_neutrino Veteran]

yeah i am also enjoying the challenge ever since the release of the ulduar patch for lich king the game has felt too easy due to the quality of gear that we had.

[treemonster]

Ok so my digi copy did me well, logged in at basically 1205am and started playing, 85'ed on my rogue last night and time to move on to my paladin. So far I like it, actually have to play now, and I died so many times its making me smile.

Also won http://www.wowhead.com/item=63043#comments last night with a 100,next one was a 99, i was soooooo excited. I never win or get cool mounts.

gratz! :D

i've mostly died to other players but it's nice to actually get alliance that not only gank you but fight back and band together and so on. we were getting PMs from horde players to stop pvping because alliance were coming into the area in force after we left and killing everyone.

yeah i am also enjoying the challenge ever since the release of the ulduar patch for lich king the game has felt too easy due to the quality of gear that we had.

when i logged in at 4am the other night the spawn rates were so fast that mobs were spawning before i was done killing the first mob. it was pretty crazy lolz. but by the time my bro logged in that evening they had tuned down the spawn rates considerably(maybe a bit too much in some areas). still it was a lot of fun keeping up with 3 hours of sleep and a pot of coffee.

[Slane]

So i'm casual now just because we moved our first raid to Saturday so people can go see Tron with their girlfriends?

And how are you getting casual on how I think people well see heroics? Where did I even mention casual/hardcore? Simply stated I think majority of WoW players will find heroics to be way hard (mostly from expecting everything to be handed to you on a silver plater like LK) or you'll find the doable and challenging (where I fit in and I presume u?) or you'll find them not necessarily easy, but not hard nor very challenging (hinting as long as you have enough people you are already raiding).

It's not a matter of casual vs. hardcore. Not sure how you got that out of it, or why but that wasn't what I was implying nor stating.

[_neutrino Veteran]

yea i was running into that issue as well i would die because they would spawn so fast, however its better than lich king where you were waiting around just to do the beginning quests because there was nothing to kill.

[treemonster]

yea i was running into that issue as well i would die because they would spawn so fast, however its better than lich king where you were waiting around just to do the beginning quests because there was nothing to kill.

i started a month late in wotlk so idk about that. there was enough people in the area to support faster spawns when my bro logged in but there was like no mobs in teh area i had been innundated in at 4am at 7pm.

i didn't die to mobs there, but i did have to actually eat food for the first time since coming back.

And how are you getting casual on how I think people well see heroics? Where did I even mention casual/hardcore? Simply stated I think majority of WoW players will find heroics to be way hard (mostly from expecting everything to be handed to you on a silver plater like LK) or you'll find the doable and challenging (where I fit in and I presume u?) or you'll find them not necessarily easy, but not hard nor very challenging (hinting as long as you have enough people you are already raiding).

It's not a matter of casual vs. hardcore. Not sure how you got that out of it, or why but that wasn't what I was implying nor stating.

i think he was joking with what you quoted but...

i have no doubt that the new end game content will get nerfed before too long. less able players and groups/guilds will have to wait to get it on farm, but i think it's important to give the higher end raiding guilds a chance to get a challenge in at first and have first crack at the top tier gear as it comes out.

[firey]

Honestly i think being able to level that quickly and complete content that quickly is sort of a waste of my money, I plan on taking a good week or two to get to 85 and then i can work on getting heroic gear and completing my professions and whatnot however, until then I am going to enjoy myself questing and reading through the lore of each zone rather than rushing from one place to another and not understanding what is going on in any of them :D

Same, if I wanted to I could stay up all night play wow, go to work super tired, go home at lunch play wow, play wow all weekend grind to 85, run heroics till im geared then do raids. Instead I wanna take the time to learn my class changes, I want to take time to do all the instances, explore the zones, do quests.

[SMELTN]

Jesus.. So hard to hit 329 gear!! I am at 327 now and trying to get my ass to 329