Happy Indivisble Day Everybody

[Mark Otto]

Originally posted by Keldyn

I could not have said it better myself. I live just fine without "god" thankyou very much.

agreed :)

[IgwanaRob]

Originally posted by BananaMan

I'm going to respectfully disagree here, hehe.

No there's a word that is shocking in a thread like this - respecfully :)

Originally posted by BananaMan

. And when I was chrisitan, I definately wasn't like that, I detested that behaviour.

Ditto this, and the stuff I cut out

Originally posted by BananaMan

Also, with your reference to the middle ages, I don't really think that's fair. The christians of today aren't responsible for what the other middle ages nutters did. It's sort of like blaming all the germans for the behaviour of the Nazi party, y'know?

Anyway, that's just my two cents!

True, true.

Originally posted by BananaMan

EDIT: I have to agree with you about one thing, religion, or at least key religious representatives deserves a slap for some of the BS being pumped out their to the public, and the wrongful acts that have been done. In Australia ATM, the catholic church is under fire as it's been revealed that a priest (or two) have molested some poor children, although it's being denied. Sick sick people.

I'm a recovering Catholic myself. I saw very early on the insane hypocracy of the religion, as well as what was going on. I still don't understand why this sex scandal with the priests is shocking so many people - has the Catholic Church really blinded that many people? They have been hiding behind the "Separation" issue for decades in order to protect themselves. They move proests around, but never let it get out why. It's freightnening how many people never had a clue about what was going on - Heck I knew when I was 10, and woke up and decided the religion was a disgusting crock. Not to mention how they view/treat women (the Catholic Church has some very disturbing views on women and their role in society). Does that mean everyone who believes it is stupid or below me, no of course not. I just choose to be realistic and not be blinded by what they tell people.

[IgwanaRob]

Originally posted by BudMan

How about leave them out - who loses in this?? If anyone is forcing anything on anyone - it is the xians. Why should someone that does not agree with your beliefs have to go into the hall??

-BudMan

You should do some reasearch. The phrase was ADDED to the pledge 50 years ago (pretty much a political thing, and it was wrong to begin with). Restoring the pledge to it's original form would be the right thing to do, as it would be correcting a mistake that should not have been allowed by congress in the first place.

And stop with the racist abbreviations already!:p

[Borg77]

Originally posted by IgwanaRob

How are they trying to destroy this country?

Like I said its a group of people like this one Athiest group who is apparently speaking for all the people of the state of Minnesota. This in itself is unescusable. This should of been the will of the people and not the will of one group. So, in a sense it is destroying a part of the country (one state I mean) which could spark movements like this all the way around the country.

People like me? Excuse me jackass? Apparently, and obviously, you ARE the one with an agenda. You seem to think anyone who is an Atheist is inherently wrong. Aside from your obvious belief that you are better than Atheists (an obvious trait of the hypocritically based Christian religion), you are trying to accuse me of being a liberal and trying to tear down the country. Bite me. Seriously, take your hypocritical BS and bite me.

If I was a one with an agenda, I would be just like Pat Robertson shoving religion down your mouth. Then wouldn't I. I believe in the separation of Church and State as declared in the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence.

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

As you can see we should disband all political motivations of religion or ideology from becoming widespread in our country. I don't think every Athiest is wrong but only the ones that use politically correct ideas like this fellow out in California.

I was just replying to your attack on me as being a stupid schmuck in which I am not. And I assumed you thought I was a liberal in which I am not. I apologize for what I assumed of you in my reply of your attack on me.

Your right in saying that the separation of church and state was more pure in 1776 than it is today before all this political motivation of religion began. Church and state should be separate entities but in reality they are not today. These children should understand what they are saying because somebody that doesn't truly believe in what their saying shouldn't say it at all. The same goes for Christians that take holy communion and all the beliefs that go into it.

The only reason the pledge was started with the words 'Under God' was to show the soviets that we denounced communism.

Wow, are you confused. Am I forcing my beliefs on anyone or not - you seem to jump back and forth on this. Let's get this straight - Ventura did nothing with the Federal Holiday of Independence Day. He simply declared that in his state, it is officially 'Indivisible Day'. Only in Minnesota, not the entire country. He has every right to do that, and it's done in every state all the time, as well as in individual towns in individual counties in states. Are you offended when a town declares a day as Official Pig Race day? What if it fell on another national holiday - say Thanksgiving. Would you think that they are trying to ruin the country by renaming Thanksgiving Pig Race Day? Truly mind-boggling.

Just because you cannot comprehend the difference between a National, Federal holiday and a day of recognition in a state, doesn't mean you should attack and accuse. You name 2 very important documents, yet obviously have no clue what they say or mean.

I know the difference between a federal and a state holiday is. If you can't read the first post in this thread, then you can't read at all. I was saying it about my state and not the whole country. I was just assuming people would realize that from reading the whole thread. Its the same as a book. The author is assuming that you have read Book A before you read my book.

As I don't truly know you IgwanaRob, I don't truly know that your imposing any beliefs on anybody at all. If I assumed wrong, then I apologize for that.

Again, he did NOT change the national holiday - get that through your head.

Again you assumed wrong. I was talking about my state holiday and not the federal holiday. Please refer to the first post in the thread. Plus, I know the difference between a national holiday and a state holiday.

Ahh, the hypocrisy continues. You freely admit, how nice. Here again, you show your contempt for "non-believers", in the same breathe that you say people have the right to a "CHOICE". (apparently as long as that choice is belief in some religion) Funny, you seem to be pushing religion quite a bit, while putting down people who you falsely accuse of imposing their views on people.

Ahh, you don't understand me. You didn't read my argument did you. I said he didn't represent me. He is a rogue Christian Liberal trying to impose on me and other Christians that his way of believing is right. You forgot that there are many Christian denominations and some don't agree with Pat Robertson. I am in a denomination that rejects the way Pat Robertson does things. So, please read before you post. I am not imposing anything on anybody. You just assumed that from me freely admitting that Pat Robertson didn't represent me.

I meant the choice of anything. That includes Athiests believing there is no God. They can do or believe ANYTHING they want. So, you assumed wrong because I didn't say belief in any religion.

Lets get one thing straight - the entire Politically Correct movement, largely made up of Liberals, is what is destroying this country. They claim to be trying to remove racial boundaries, and make it a nicer place to live - when in reality they are segregating this country by separating people into religious, political, and racial groups and pitting them against each other in a race to see which group can accuse the most people of offending them.

I agree with you on this statement. This Athiest group in Minnesota is trying to segregate rather then bring together. If they wanted to truly bring people together, then why did they write this proclamation in the first place.

Also, Jesse Ventura contradicted what he approves as being a proper proclamation:

5. Subject matter of the proclamation should not take sides in matters of political controversy, ideological or religious beliefs, or individual conviction.

http://www.governor.state.mn.us/proclamations.html

But he signed it anyway. This was for the state holiday and not the federal one if you don't understand IgwanaRob.

If Ventura was a true American he wouldn't of segregrated but he would of united then wouldn't he. And if Ventura was seeking re-election as governor he wouldn't of signed it in the first place. So, don't give me this BS that it wasn't political like this Athiest group wanted it to be.

[IgwanaRob]

Originally posted by Borg77

I'd like to thank you for being adult about this. Too many people would have jumped on and continued with more vicious and personal attacks, whereas you were courteous enough to explain your thoughts (even the wrong ones - j/k :p ). Although some of what I replied with was semi-personal (at least in appearance), the intent was to get honest reactions, as that seems to be to only way to make some people think honestly (not that it's right or wrong, just a method).

At least we agree on the fundamentals, and can agree to disagree on the rest.

It's amazing, even to this day, how insightful the founding fathers were. Imagine how much worse we would be without the Separation of two very strong, and very different schools of belief that contradict each other in so many ways.

Enjoy the rest of the holiday.

[sanctified Veteran]

In my eons of life I?ve been studying religions very hard (christianism, catolicism, budism, SATANISM, and some cults)

my conclussions are:

there?s no god

The word and image of a god was created by the human mind, a mind that needs to believe in something because that adds a "meaning" to their life, of course, and this is MY opinion, minds like that are somehow weak, not weak in the intelligence level, weak in the level that that minds cant explain certain things without the word "god", is just the easy and fast answers to everything, of course there almost no religious scientist

Im not attacking any specific religion here, every religion was founded in the same base, the curiosity for find answers, but the answers that religions provide are just biased, unless science comes and show us the truth (ex: plain earth, the earth centrism theory and some other myths that religons created)

This is my last post (maybe) in this thread because I cant stand some religious people here, thanks.

[Borg77]

Originally posted by [saint dark]In my eons of life I?ve been studying religions very hard (christianism, catolicism, budism, SATANISM, and some cults)

my conclussions are:

there?s no god

The word and image of a god was created by the human mind, a mind that needs to believe in something because that adds a "meaning" to their life, of course, and this is MY opinion, minds like that are somehow weak, not weak in the intelligence level, weak in the level that that minds cant explain certain things without the word "god", is just the easy and fast answers to everything, of course there almost no religious scientist

Im not attacking any specific religion here, every religion was founded in the same base, the curiosity for find answers, but the answers that religions provide are just biased, unless science comes and show us the truth (ex: plain earth, the earth centrism theory and some other myths that religons created)

This is my last post (maybe) in this thread because I cant stand some religious people here, thanks. b>

As a whole, Athiests can't prove there is no God or not. Although that is your opinion, in general, people can't disprove or prove either God or evolution with hard SOLID facts. So, its a two way street because in the future one will eventually be proven. JMHO.

[sanctified Veteran]

Originally posted by Borg77

As a whole, Athiests can't prove there is no God or not. Although that is your opinion, in general, people can't disprove or prove either God or evolution with hard SOLID facts. So, its a two way street because in the future one will eventually be proven. JMHO.

agreed, whe cannot prove the non existence of a god, as you cant prove it, very well stated post, however, the most solid facts that I know are on the evolution and atheism side, maybe Im wrong and you see the things in other eyes, thats because I dont want to enter into a debate here, is not only a two ways street, is a grenade

[Tesseract]

Originally posted by Borg77

As a whole, Athiests can't prove there is no God or not. Although that is your opinion, in general, people can't disprove or prove either God or evolution with hard SOLID facts. So, its a two way street because in the future one will eventually be proven. JMHO.

Well, one group will disprove the other's arguments. Einstein tried to prove mathematically that there was a God, but he died before he could complete the proof. I don't think the existance of God can be proven mathematically, nor do I think that it can be proven at all. Athiests may think that this is the main reason that there is no God, but the fact is that the existance of god exists within faith in Him. People who truly believe in Him don't need scientific proof of his existance. They already know that He exists. And athiests: don't flame be because that is the beliefs of many God-fearing people across the planet.

[Borg77]

Originally posted by codyg11

Well, one group will disprove the other's arguments. Einstein tried to prove mathematically that there was a God, but he died before he could complete the proof. I don't think the existance of God can be proven mathematically, nor do I think that it can be proven at all. Athiests may think that this is the main reason that there is no God, but the fact is that the existance of god exists within faith in Him. People who truly believe in Him don't need scientific proof of his existance. They already know that He exists. And athiests: don't flame be because that is the beliefs of many God-fearing people across the planet.

I agree with you on what you said. But the point of the matter is that Athiests and others alike have chosen not to believe in anything. Thats why we have freedom of choice. I also have faith in the existence of God. But my point earlier is they can't disprove or prove that one exists. If they could prove that it didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Thats why the debate continues.

We as humans rely on sight, taste, smell, and observation to get us through the day. And we as humans want to find out the truth. Thats why we have divisions. One being science trying to prove everything and anything with numbers and the other through faith alone.

As being a member of the human race, its up to the individual to make his/her own decisions without anything being forced on them. Thats why our country exists for that very reason and why we celebrate July 4th.

[Fedr0]

Originally posted by Borg77

If a 7 year old can pass a Microsoft certification test, then yes a 8 year old has the capacity to know that.

If that Indian (if I correctly remember) kid passed that exam, it's because he learnt not because he understood.

There's a big difference between the two. :right:

[Borg77]

Originally posted by Fedr0

If that Indian (if I correctly remember) kid passed that exam, it's because he learnt not because he understood.

There's a big difference between the two. :right:

Ok, I will agree with you on that point. But there are a few 8 year olds in the world that do understand the difference. As that said, they are probably in some potential learning school for the gifted.

[Fedr0]

Originally posted by Borg77

Ok, I will agree with you on that point. But there are a few 8 year olds in the world that do understand the difference. As that said, they are probably in some potential learning school for the gifted.

And I will agree with you on your point now. Actually, I was referring to a normal life situation. :)

[+BudMan MVC]

Originally posted by IgwanaRob

xian?

You meant Christian.

As much as I don't like the religion (or at least some of it's denominations), I dispise the use of, and people who use that disgusting abbreviation. It Christian, and Christmas - NOT xian, and xmas.

No I did not mean Christian - I mean xian. More to the -ian part, referring to anyone that belongs to any type of religion. If you read it as being a direct reference to christian, that is how you read. Not how I meant it ;)

I look at all religions the same, does not matter if yours revolves around some guy named christ or buddha, or billy, allah, jehova, or whatever. In my eyes your a xian :) Now I also could of been referring to anyone from Xian - a city in China. But then that would of been way off the mark, and the correct term would of be Xianian.

And to the remark about it being racist - thats just crazy!! What does your religion have to do with your race?? It is at no way a racist type remark. Now it may have some prejudiced overtones to it - by attempting to lump everyone with a religious belief together. But it is not in anyway a racist term!

If you do not like the term, I am sorry - but I thought this term better to use on a public forum than the term I normally use to refer to religious people --> "Moron" Now if you like, I would be happy to replace the word "xian" with "moron" since in fact they very interchangeable words - ROFL ;)

-BudMan

[IgwanaRob]

Originally posted by BudMan

No I did not mean Christian - I mean xian. More to the -ian part, referring to anyone that belongs to any type of religion. If you read it as being a direct reference to christian, that is how you read. Not how I meant it ;)

-BudMan

Ah, I see. Sorry then:)

This thread is the perfect example of why you should mix politics and religion with alcohol - to easy to misinterpret things and quickly end up in some sort of violent outburst (be is physical or mental).

BTW, I like your regular term ;)

*edit* I ain't saying I am drinking, nor implying anyone else in this thread was - just pointing to an old saying, and how the lesson can be applied to any situation, not just drinking.

[ZeroXero]

Ok, I'm appalled at some of the comments early on in this thread. Here on Neowin people have complained over and over about people 'forcing' their beliefs on others and mods have concequently stopped it. But whats this? People condeming ALL religions? Come on, this should work both ways! I'm christian, and yes, religions have been the cause of many wars etc. But it's the extremists of those religions. Not the normal believers (in most cases).

Now to me, condeming all religions includes my own, and that ****es me off.

- ZX

[azazel-]

What? So because the Mother is a xian - that makes the daughter one 2? Why is that? Does this girl not have freedom of choice? Why do you assume that she would choose the Mothers belief vs the Fathers views - or something else for that matter.

You don't know? Xtianity is hereditary. It's like a passed-on genome. Or a disease. Your pick.

Personally, I choose the latter.

--Happily living out of the "flock" for seven years now.

;)

[azazel-]

Originally posted by ZeroXero

Ok, I'm appalled at some of the comments early on in this thread. Here on Neowin people have complained over and over about people 'forcing' their beliefs on others and mods have concequently stopped it. But whats this? People condeming ALL religions? Come on, this should work both ways! I'm christian, and yes, religions have been the cause of many wars etc. But it's the extremists of those religions. Not the normal believers (in most cases).

Now to me, condeming all religions includes my own, and that ****es me off.

- ZX

Extremists? So, the "extremists" were the ones burning witches at the stake in Salem? The "extremists" were the ones on a holy crusade to take back Jerusalem during the Crusades, thereby slaughtering thousands. In the name of the all-mighty catholic church no less? What about all the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children that were murdered outright or tortured to death during the Spanish Inquisition? These weren't "extremists", this was the general populous at the time carrying these acts out. It's estimated that more people have died in the name of religion than have died in every major military conflict *combined*. Love thy neighbor indeed. And this has changed how? People blowing up abortion clinics? Snipers shooting abortion doctors? Suicide bombers blowing themselves and others up under the premise that they will be securing their way into the afterlife. Life should be precious, but instead, it's better to be a martyre and die for your faith. No thanks, I'd rather live my life secure in the knowledge that everything I have here is only that which I have gotten through my own hard work and abilities, and I'm a lot happier for it.

[Guest deadzombie]

Well, the day is over, and people had an opinion.

Isn't that what freedom is all about? :D

Thread Closed

deadzombie

Free and Wild Forever