Apple Boot Camp

[.Neo]

I've got a feeling this may be one of the new additions in Leopard - since Boot Camp is going to be a feature of Leopard, Apple may want to add full NTFS support for XP.

Yeah exactly. Currently we have a pretty crappy situation because you're forced to use NTFS when having a partition larger than 32 GB (or something like that).

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

Ok well I have thought about it, and read some rumors that make a ton of sense and have come to the conclusion that boot camp will be the corner stone of making Macs a more popular machine bundled with a future more popular OS. What's the reason behind this? Yellow Box. Yellow Box was a NextStep deal that would make the programing architectures (I think that would be the right terminology) such as Carbon or Cocoa universal, aka, you could program using those fronts on a Windows PC, a PPC Mac or an Intel Mac. Think about that for a second. Programers would be able to easily program apps, that are universal across 3 different platforms.

Anyhow, rumor has it, that Apple is working on a yellow box type solution again. It would weigh somewhere in the 150 meg range, and would allow for developers to develop universal programs for both Mac and PC. Apple ports the Cocoa and Carbon API's as well as Xcode to Windows, and it makes developers real happy. What does Boot Camp have to do with this? Its simply a method of getting people to switch over to OS X. It is a safety net for those that need to use those one or two windows programs. Leopard would introduce a virtualization of Windows for OS X and that coupled with the fact that developers would be developing universal programs for all three platforms, its a no loose situation.

At first I thought this was a bunch of eh BS to be honest, but now that I think about it, if this is what Apple is doing and has in its cards, then its genius. Developers need not worry about wasting money developing for Mac because they could develop for all 3 at the same time. It saves money and makes the consumer happy too. Apple uses the safety net feature of having Boot Camp and later on a virtual version of Windows in Leopard, to draw in switchers. And MS is fine because developers would be able to develop cool programs in a very nice, easy to use environment.

If these predictions turn out to be true, I really think its blue skies for Apple. The combination of dramatic enhanced compatibility and interoperability plus ease of development for consumers with successful safety net for consumers, will be Apple's strength in taking a nice chunk of the market. Apple will never beat MS, I think everyone knows that. But with a strategy that at least tries to accomplish the same goals as the one that I sort of laid out, I think they can regain a nice little segment.

[.Neo]

^If one application is being developed for both Mac OS X and Windows in the way you're stating won't that seriously affect Aqua and other Mac OS X-specific technologies? :/

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

I don't think so, this would just allow developers do develop programs that would run on both platforms nativly. That can only be a good thing because if Apple plays its cards right, OS X will be an actual competitor. Aqua and OS X specific technologies will still be OS X specific, but being able to program applications that will run on both platforms will make development costs drop and make developers jobs easier. It will just open the door for more development on the OS X side.

[Chadwick]

^If one application is being developed for both Mac OS X and Windows in the way you're stating won't that seriously affect Aqua and other Mac OS X-specific technologies? :/

Apple enforces strict GUI guidelines, if a professional developer makes an application it must meet the guidelines of each OS, which is very doable, most likely it will be implemented so that this is done automatically, picture itunes on windows vs. osx.

[Dejon]

Maybe you guys should read the Boot Camp manual Apple provided on their site. ;)

Ah, thanks.

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

Apple enforces strict GUI guidelines, if a professional developer makes an application it must meet the guidelines of each OS, which is very doable, most likely it will be implemented so that this is done automatically, picture itunes on windows vs. osx.

Bingo

[xxdesmus]

Parallels runs very fast. It certainly takes advantage of CPU Virtualization. Its very near native speed. Pity it doesnt take advantage of the video card. Maybe I could try installing the drivers that Apple provides with Boot Camp. :whistle:

I was just going to do the same thing this evening. I can tell everyone as well, it runs very fast. I would say excluding the second of lag when you click inside the virtual machine it is definitely quick enough to make you think it was native. I'll be getting my extra ram today...so I'll let you know how this runs with a dedicated 1GB to it :yes:

[aristotle-dude]

I was just going to do the same thing this evening. I can tell everyone as well, it runs very fast. I would say excluding the second of lag when you click inside the virtual machine it is definitely quick enough to make you think it was native. I'll be getting my extra ram today...so I'll let you know how this runs with a dedicated 1GB to it :yes:

Parallels will not let you run games regardless of what drivers you install. The video drivers Apple provides for the XP install are just ATI Catalyst drivers. The VM only provides an SVGA card. It is only useful for productivity apps and the like which are not available on OS X.

[crazzyyfool]

Parallels will not let you run games regardless of what drivers you install. The video drivers Apple provides for the XP install are just ATI Catalyst drivers. The VM only provides an SVGA card. It is only useful for productivity apps and the like which are not available on OS X.

Does anyone know if the ATI drivers Apple supplies in Boot Camp are the latest available from ATI. Can you for example, get newer/updated versions for XP from ATI's site and install them. :unsure:

[raskren]

Does anyone know if the ATI drivers Apple supplies in Boot Camp are the latest available from ATI. Can you for example, get newer/updated versions for XP from ATI's site and install them. :unsure:

Welcome to the world of Windows Drivers.

Yes, you can. Will they work properly? I'm not sure. The video BIOS is usually the only difference between a PC video card and a Mac video card. If there is some Mac specific feature in the video BIOS of your card, the generic Ati drivers probably won't support it (power management comes to mind). Naturally, on a desktop this may not be an issue.

[ilkevinli]

by drivers show a driver date of 03-02-06 so they seem pretty new.

Does anyone know if the ATI drivers Apple supplies in Boot Camp are the latest available from ATI. Can you for example, get newer/updated versions for XP from ATI's site and install them. :unsure:

[xxdesmus]

Parallels will not let you run games regardless of what drivers you install. The video drivers Apple provides for the XP install are just ATI Catalyst drivers. The VM only provides an SVGA card. It is only useful for productivity apps and the like which are not available on OS X.

argh...for craps sake. Once and for all, I am not saying you can or would want to run games on Parallels. The attraction of Parallels is that you don't have to dual boot and you don't have to restart to use Windows.

You use Windows inside OSX, you can use Final Cut to do your video editing in the native OSX environment, then open up your VM in Parallels to use MS Access or any other Windows App you need in very near native speeds...side by side, no reboots.

Yeesh.

[.Neo]

Apple enforces strict GUI guidelines, if a professional developer makes an application it must meet the guidelines of each OS, which is very doable, most likely it will be implemented so that this is done automatically, picture itunes on windows vs. osx.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but basically you mean an "universal" application that runs on both Mac OS X and Windows will contain resources (toolbar icons for example) for both platforms? So basically everything is double?

How are you going to that with Mac OS X specific technologies like Spotlight etc.? Those won't run on Windows.

You use Windows inside OSX, you can use Final Cut to do your video editing in the native OSX environment, then open up your VM in Parallels to use MS Access or any other Windows App you need in very near native speeds...side by side, no reboots.

Yeesh.

I don't think Final Cut will run that fast with Windows XP in Parallel hogging up resources. ;)

[NY1]

Anyone know how well the 1.66ghz intel duo (within windows xp, boot camp) performs compared to a intel 630 (3.0ghz) running Windows Xp?

[freedom77]

will all windows programs/games work as normal??!?

[.Neo]

will all windows programs/games work as normal??!?

You're running a normal Windows XP SP2 copy on an Intel Mac, so why would you expect things to run differently?

[instant.human]

because its still unbelievable that its no emulation with performance lacks but a natively running windows xp.

[freedom77]

You're running a normal Windows XP SP2 copy on an Intel Mac, so why would you expect things to run differently?

just checking, hopefully this will push the idea to get a mac as he next family computer:P

[Windam]

Maybe you guys should read the Boot Camp manual Apple provided on their site. ;)

maybe the guys on onmac.net can supply those drivers.

[S.MULLA]

tried it at work today with member qbie.

ran 3dmark 03 and got 6,363 - this is on the high end imac. one thing i did notice was the botting times on the winxp-was very fast. i just hope driver are developed for the isight and other hardware thats not working at the moment.

very nice... :) pics taken with mobile phone-so abit grainy.

[LingeringSoul]

I want a Macbook Pro so badly now. I've got love for MacOS, and I'd take it over Windows any day, but as an engineering student, sometimes I'm forced to use programs that don't have MacOS equivalents. I was thinking of buying a MBP and dual booting with the onmac.net method, but Boot Camp just seems like a perfect solution now.

[mootymoots]

same here, MBP all the way... i just wish it was a litle cheaper!

[5Horizons]

I was wondering, why does my iMac X1600 show up as a Mobility card on Windows? On the Apple website it says nothing about it being a mobility version of the card, and they do make the distinction on the MacBook Pro site. Is it a driver thing (just using the same drivers for now and they'll fix later?) or do they just sneak that mobility in on the iMac users? ;)

Sorry if it's been asked before, I think I've read most of this thread but I might have missed something.

[Si Veteran]

Not really sure - part of the system changed it's description when I installed the latest Catalyst drivers (I manually selected X1600, everything works perfectly).