The Wii

[quigley0]

Oh please. Stop your whining. If you're such a "huge fan", you'll get one regardless.

While the hardcore gamer contigent might have a decent HDTV penetration, the market at large does not, and that's what Nintendo is going for. When less than 10% of your target demo has HDTV, does it make business sense to incur all the extra costs of making games HD compliant, when a tiny majority of your users are going to see any benefit?

Look at the gamecube. They took out the digital AV output when they realized no one was using component output cables with it. Did people stop buying gamecubes?

I disagree with your percentages. First, the gamecube is selling for less than $100, making it an easy buy for people on a budget. People who will be able to afford the Wii, may also be able to afford an HDTV. I would not be supprised if the Wii is 2 1/2 times more expensive than the current gamecube. (There are already rumors) Now, this is going to be nintendo's system for the next few years, and, HDTVs are only getting cheaper. 3 years down the road, when Nintendo can make a good amount of money selling Wii's for cheap (costs are down, etc), People may not want to buy it, because they will be getting HDTV's, and, lets be honest, who wants non HDTV on an HDTV? Do you like to play PC games at 640x480?

I am huge fan of nintendo's games, and am excited about the premise of a unique controller, and how that will impact gameplay. However, I disagree that saving money on HDTV now is a good business model. I am also not sure where you get your percentages from, or if you just made them up. But, here are some facts:

Feb 17 2009 is when NTSC will be shut off, and ATSC will begin broadcasting. This is a congressional mandate. Why this date? This is when it is believed that 85% of all homes will be HDTV ready.

Bottom line, i think this is going to byte Nintendo in the arse. Unless there is something to be released in the future making it HDTV, but i doubt it. It will of course play on an HDTV, only it will look like crap.

[Xerus]

Its hard for me to believe that so many people own HDTVs. A lot of you guys on forums and stuff do, but thats because your techies, and thats why you're on the forums... when I look at the friends I know in person, only one of them out of pretty much all of them owns an HDTV. And whenever I'm over at that particular friend's house, we have to wait 10 or 15 minutes while he configures everything for it to work when we just want to watch a DVD... that just may be him though.

I still play console games on my little 15" tv in my room, I dont have a huge living room entertainment center or anything, and I really dont think I'm going to have one. I dont spend time watching TV, I watch movies on my computer, and I play a majority of PC games with the occasional Gamecube and PS2 game. So no HD in the Wii doesn't bother me one bit.

[quigley0]

I agree, more people today on standard TV's then HDTV's, i bet in 2 years time, that wont be the case. I think it will hurt Wii sales down the road. Or people thinking of getting one. Some wont care, but I suspect may will.

The point is, it is an easily correctable situation. Just make it HDTV compatable. That way, you dont lose ANYONE.

[magik]

True, and so far at least 360 WONT make full use of its HD as far as we know, maybe Ps3 will?

You're confused.

Its hard for me to believe that so many people own HDTVs. A lot of you guys on forums and stuff do, but thats because your techies, and thats why you're on the forums... when I look at the friends I know in person, only one of them out of pretty much all of them owns an HDTV. And whenever I'm over at that particular friend's house, we have to wait 10 or 15 minutes while he configures everything for it to work when we just want to watch a DVD... that just may be him though.

I still play console games on my little 15" tv in my room, I dont have a huge living room entertainment center or anything, and I really dont think I'm going to have one. I dont spend time watching TV, I watch movies on my computer, and I play a majority of PC games with the occasional Gamecube and PS2 game. So no HD in the Wii doesn't bother me one bit.

Yea, I know what you mean. I still play on a SDTV but as games start to get more impressive graphically and start to really use the power of the Xbox 360 and the PS3 then I will definitely try and get an HDTV, hopefully by then a decent one will be much more reasonably priced.

I'm loving what the Nintendo Wii will bring to the table, but I just hate the name. Nevertheless if it retails for $200 I'm buying one, if it's $250 I will wait to be impressed by the gameplay first.

[Sheppard]

As much as i like the concept and how theyve incorporated the controller i just cant see myself sat on a chair waving the controller about, just feels wrong to me.

[magik]

As much as i like the concept and how theyve incorporated the controller i just cant see myself sat on a chair waving the controller about, just feels wrong to me.

I agree, but I think it would be great fun as a party game and ultimately the best party console to date. The bottom line is my Xbox 360 is my main gaming machine while (if I chose to get one) the Nintendo Wii will be what I bring out every once in a while for some laughs and/or during parties and get-togethers. The PS3, on the other hand, is just too pricey for me to give it any serious consideration. Maybe after a few price-cuts I'll grab a PS3 though.

[Erich]

Harddrive adds no visible funcionality to the consumer unless they're using their videogame machine as a tivo... Sure you can debate for and against it to the end, but unless you get modding communities the likes of Half-Life for a console a game, I seriously doubt the impact of a Harddrive. The rest of this debate lies in the ability to display better graphics. Nintendo explicitly said graphics are not next-gen - I tend to agree with them.

Altho I do not make money developing games, I have worked very deep in the modding community (notably Desert Combat if I wish to blow my own horn), and designed some of my own compo-games from scratch. The point game development is at, graphics artists in most cases are simply not able to make things look better than what engines are capable of. There are a few exceptions to this of course, mainly the elite game companies who can afford to pay top of the line artists. Developing successful games has become such an elitist proffession that we lack any kind of individuality and variety. Nintendo is saying enough is enough, let creativity win... which in the day of NES/SNES/Pentium 1 thrived!!! If you look at most of the games that exist today, they derived from this time period. UT,Doom,Quake,HL,Warcraft,SC,HALO for f's sakes started development right around the time of Pentium2 (then was later bought out by ms to put it on console instead of pc). Tribes, AoE, the list from this generation that is still around today could go on for almost forever. I say bring back those days.

In the 60s & 70s hit bands were born overnight with 1 succesful appearance... society commanded what lived and what died. In the 90/00s pop is completely controlled by head executives who thinks we should by more albumbs by white trailer trash ###### and creed clones. Napster shook things up a bit. Didn't completely change the direction, but it definately helped brodden musical tastes, and I think this is what Nintendo is trying to do.

[Xerus]

I agree, more people today on standard TV's then HDTV's, i bet in 2 years time, that wont be the case. I think it will hurt Wii sales down the road. Or people thinking of getting one. Some wont care, but I suspect may will.

The point is, it is an easily correctable situation. Just make it HDTV compatable. That way, you dont lose ANYONE.

Understandable. However, I feel the opposite way you do it seems. I feel more shut out by Xbox360 and PS3... both boasting these amazing graphics and super amazing resolution and HDTV stuff. All things that I dont care about in the least bit... it just seems nowadays people are looking more at the pixels on the screen rather than looking at the game.

[quigley0]

Understandable. However, I feel the opposite way you do it seems. I feel more shut out by Xbox360 and PS3... both boasting these amazing graphics and super amazing resolution and HDTV stuff. All things that I dont care about in the least bit... it just seems nowadays people are looking more at the pixels on the screen rather than looking at the game.

I can't argue really. Good graphics should only enhance an already good game premise. If the premise for the game is no fun, then, good graphics wont make it any better.

[Marduk]

Quote - (Marduk @ May 8 2006, 07:40) *

True, and so far at least 360 WONT make full use of its HD as far as we know, maybe Ps3 will?

You're confused.

I'm confused eh? When did they come out and say any different? Theres only been ONE game to make use of the HD and I thought before more than a FEW devs said they had to gimp their games due to the 2 skus of the Xbox 360, maybe your confused, although you do have a master cheif avatar so I think theres something else going on.

Anyway today is nintendo's big day we'll know everything we need to know about the wiii in a few short hours.

[jackwanders]

I disagree with your percentages. First, the gamecube is selling for less than $100, making it an easy buy for people on a budget. People who will be able to afford the Wii, may also be able to afford an HDTV. I would not be supprised if the Wii is 2 1/2 times more expensive than the current gamecube. (There are already rumors) Now, this is going to be nintendo's system for the next few years, and, HDTVs are only getting cheaper. 3 years down the road, when Nintendo can make a good amount of money selling Wii's for cheap (costs are down, etc), People may not want to buy it, because they will be getting HDTV's, and, lets be honest, who wants non HDTV on an HDTV? Do you like to play PC games at 640x480?

I am huge fan of nintendo's games, and am excited about the premise of a unique controller, and how that will impact gameplay. However, I disagree that saving money on HDTV now is a good business model. I am also not sure where you get your percentages from, or if you just made them up. But, here are some facts:

Feb 17 2009 is when NTSC will be shut off, and ATSC will begin broadcasting. This is a congressional mandate. Why this date? This is when it is believed that 85% of all homes will be HDTV ready.

Bottom line, i think this is going to byte Nintendo in the arse. Unless there is something to be released in the future making it HDTV, but i doubt it. It will of course play on an HDTV, only it will look like crap.

have you ever played a game at 480p on an HDTV? It doesn't look like crap. It looks pretty damn good. Is it 720p? Of course not, but I don't think the difference is worth a more expensive console and more expensive games.

And a $250 Wii? I believe Nintendo is aiming at a $199 launch. Besides, even if it was $250, how can you say that if someone can afford a $250 console they can afford a $2000 HDTV? They're not even in the same ballpark.

And you're forgetting one thing. Nintendo prides itself on first party games and exclusives. If you're a fan of any of those games, would you rather play them at 480p on your HDTV or not play them at all?

I agree, more people today on standard TV's then HDTV's, i bet in 2 years time, that wont be the case. I think it will hurt Wii sales down the road. Or people thinking of getting one. Some wont care, but I suspect may will.

The point is, it is an easily correctable situation. Just make it HDTV compatable. That way, you dont lose ANYONE.

You're forgetting that it's not as easy as just waving a wand and making it "HDTV compatable [sic]".

There are costs involved. Nintendo would have to spend more to make a more powerful console that can handle HD resolutions and the larger textures associated with it. They would probably have to prepare to expand the Wii to play HD-DVD or BluRay games to handle the next generation of HD games that are over 8.5GB. Developers would have to expand their budgets to make HD games, creating bigger HD textures, better models, etc.

All of this leads to a more expensive console (maybe $300 instead of $200) and more expensive games ($55-$65 instead of $40 or so Nintendo is currently aiming for).

In all honesty, which do you think will lose Nintendo more customers. Playing games at 480p (16x9) instead of 720p, or forcing consumers to spend an extra $100 (plus another $10-$20 per game) on a feature most of them won't use for the forseeable future?

[magik]

I'm confused eh? When did they come out and say any different? Theres only been ONE game to make use of the HD and I thought before more than a FEW devs said they had to gimp their games due to the 2 skus of the Xbox 360, maybe your confused, although you do have a master cheif avatar so I think theres something else going on.

So you're saying only 'one' game had HD? You're telling me none of the titles released thus far render and play on 720p/1080i? And claiming that developers said that they had to "gimp their games due to the 2 skus" is rubbish and you know it, show some proof and maybe you can hope to have an intelligent argument. :pinch:

Yes my friend, just like your avatar you are confused, because you meant to say HDD instead of HD. There is a difference. HDD = Hard Disk Drive (what you meant to say) and HD = High Definition (what you did say). Clearly the Xbox 360 renders all games in high definition (HD), that is not disputable. Also, you fail to realize that when a HDD is present all games make full use of it by caching information to the hard drive and therefore minimize loading times, if a HDD is not present then critical things are stored in memory (there's plenty of it) until needed to reload from the DVD. And of course your claim of devs 'gimping their games due to the 2 skus' is purely propaganda, are you trying to say that Oblivion was "gimped"? :laugh:

Edited May 9, 2006 by magik

[Shetland]

i read that sony have motion sensing.

owned nintendo. owned.

the one thing you had going for you has been taken.

i said that any other company could do it and they did.

i WAS looking at the wii as a secondary console but no.

i DARE anyone to tell me that nintendo has ANYTHING over the competition now.

dont give me the "oh nintendo will change the way you play games" bull**** cause it means nothing now.

and it IS about hardware.

the new generations of console are ALL about hardware.

the games are made by software makers, the hardware lets them do new things - so hide behind the truth all you want, without better hardware you dont get far.

the masses want NICE looking games - the controls arent special anymore anyway.

[Xerus]

i read that sony have motion sensing.

owned nintendo. owned.

the one thing you had going for you has been taken.

i said that any other company could do it and they did.

i WAS looking at the wii as a secondary console but no.

i DARE anyone to tell me that nintendo has ANYTHING over the competition now.

dont give me the "oh nintendo will change the way you play games" bull**** cause it means nothing now.

and it IS about hardware.

the new generations of console are ALL about hardware.

the games are made by software makers, the hardware lets them do new things - so hide behind the truth all you want, without better hardware you dont get far.

the masses want NICE looking games - the controls arent special anymore anyway.

What did you read? Because the Sony PS3 controller...

-Only will sense 6 degrees of rotation, like those controllers that came out for the PC a long time ago

-Will probably not be used by developers that much.

Sony just thought "Hey motion sensing is cool lets do something like that" But its not going to be anywhere close to what the Wii controller will do.

But if you really believe that games are about hardware then I probably cant convince you otherwise.

Hell, if control doesnt matter anymore you might as well just be staring at a CG movie rather than playing a game.

[PaulCabby]

i read that sony have motion sensing.

owned nintendo. owned.

the one thing you had going for you has been taken.

i said that any other company could do it and they did.

i WAS looking at the wii as a secondary console but no

But will the motion sensing capabilities of the PS3 compare with the Wii?

[NeoTrunks]

i read that sony have motion sensing.

owned nintendo. owned.

the one thing you had going for you has been taken.

i said that any other company could do it and they did.

i WAS looking at the wii as a secondary console but no.

i DARE anyone to tell me that nintendo has ANYTHING over the competition now.

dont give me the "oh nintendo will change the way you play games" bull**** cause it means nothing now.

and it IS about hardware.

the new generations of console are ALL about hardware.

the games are made by software makers, the hardware lets them do new things - so hide behind the truth all you want, without better hardware you dont get far.

the masses want NICE looking games - the controls arent special anymore anyway.

:laugh: :rofl: This just made me laugh. As it has been mentioned, the motionsensing added to the PS3 controllers is a mere afterthought. Don't get me wrong, I may end up picking up a PS3 sometime in the future, but the next console I will be getting is Wii. You will defintely not be able to play games in the same way on the PS3 as on the Wii. It has motion sensing, but that is about it. The Wii remotes have that and more.

[magik]

But will the motion sensing capabilities of the PS3 compare with the Wii?

Of course not, its idiotic to think so. The PS3 controllers will have 6 degrees of freedom and will be used by very few developers/titles. The Nintendo Wii controllers will have 360 degrees of freedom and will be used by all developers/titles. There really is no comparison... PS3 Tilt = Gimmick, Nintendo Wii-mote = Innovation in gaming.

[Michael1406]

Shetland doesn't quite get the full picture of the Wii. Poor kid.

[Druw]

i read that sony have motion sensing.

owned nintendo. owned.

the one thing you had going for you has been taken.

i said that any other company could do it and they did.

i WAS looking at the wii as a secondary console but no.

i DARE anyone to tell me that nintendo has ANYTHING over the competition now.

dont give me the "oh nintendo will change the way you play games" bull**** cause it means nothing now.

and it IS about hardware.

the new generations of console are ALL about hardware.

the games are made by software makers, the hardware lets them do new things - so hide behind the truth all you want, without better hardware you dont get far.

the masses want NICE looking games - the controls arent special anymore anyway.

snip

Edited July 14, 2006 by mAcOdIn

[Tiger.Girl]

(if I chose to get one) the Nintendo Wii will be what I bring out every once in a while for some laughs and/or during parties and get-togethers. The PS3, on the other hand, is just too pricey for me to give it any serious consideration. Maybe after a few price-cuts I'll grab a PS3 though.

I have always been a huge Nintendo fan but the Wii seems like it would be expensive for something "every once in a while" or something "just for parties". I couldn't imagine myself just sitting around and playing it much let alone laying out afew hundered in games and controllers just for parties.

Hopefully all the games arent gimmicky.

[PaulCabby]

Of course not, its idiotic to think so. The PS3 controllers will have 6 degrees of freedom and will be used by very few developers/titles. The Nintendo Wii controllers will have 360 degrees of freedom and will be used by all developers/titles. There really is no comparison... PS3 Tilt = Gimmick, Nintendo Wii-mote = Innovation in gaming.

It was more of a "I know the answer to it already question" ;)

[jackwanders]

i read that sony have motion sensing.

owned nintendo. owned.

the one thing you had going for you has been taken.

i said that any other company could do it and they did.

i WAS looking at the wii as a secondary console but no.

i DARE anyone to tell me that nintendo has ANYTHING over the competition now.

dont give me the "oh nintendo will change the way you play games" bull**** cause it means nothing now.

and it IS about hardware.

the new generations of console are ALL about hardware.

the games are made by software makers, the hardware lets them do new things - so hide behind the truth all you want, without better hardware you dont get far.

the masses want NICE looking games - the controls arent special anymore anyway.

You're a bitter, bitter man. Or perhaps boy? Your profile doesn't say, but I can't imagine someone with this level of hatred for something as simple as a video game console can be much over 15. If you were, you'd probably have more important things to worry about.

But let's start at the top. Sony's PS3 does not have motion sensing. It does have a 6-axis tilt sensor. What does this mean? It means you can tilt the controller up and down, tilt it left and right, and turn it left and right (like a steering wheel). It also means that the controller's rumble feature has been removed. A feature that nearly every PS2 game uses has been removed in favor of a new feature that few developers will have reason to use.

Nintendo's wiimote also has a 6-axis tilt sensor. It also utilizes a sensor bar to track the controller's location in 3d space. However, it has managed to retain a rumble feature. Not to mention that the wiimote has a built-in speaker for localized sound (think gun shots, crack of a bat, twang of a bow, etc). Oh, and there are also add-ons to the wii-mote, such as the nunchuck analog stick, classic controller, gamecube controller, etc. I'm sure 3rd party developers will probably think of more. Nintendo's also working with developers so that as many Wii games as possible implement all the possible features of the wiimote.

Sony implemented one of the many features found on the wiimote, and you're saying that the Wii has nothing going for it? If I put a slice of cheese between two pieces of bread, are Big Mac lovers everywhere going to switch to my sandwich? I mean, they both have cheese, right? Oh, well, you may or may not be able to actually taste the cheese on my sandwich. It's a production issue.

Re: your "it's all about the hardware" comment. I just have one question. Do you play games on these consoles? Or do you just take apart the console, caress each piece of hardware, and brag to your friends about how big your HDD is?

Console gaming has never been about the hardware. It's always been about the games. The hardware needs to be good to allow for good games, but there's always a range in there. you're surely not going to play a crappy game simply because it displays at 1080p? Likewise, would you refuse to play a Wii-exclusive game solely because it plays at 480p instead of 720p?

[Deciever]

I use a projector for my gaming...... at around 80 inches diagonal and I must say component 720p makes a huge difference over 480i whether it is ps2, xbox or gamecube and I even went out of my way to track down a gamecube with component out. I think this is a big mistake on Nintendos part, I understand not doing the full blown 1080i/p but not even 720p o0. Very bad decision in my book but regardless it will be my next console of choice and I will be 20 by the time the Wii comes out. Honestly these past few years no game has really captured my attention they all feel too repetitive and boring and rehashes of old games souped up with fancy gfx..... umm yea I think I will pass.

Edit: 720p is recognized as SD, and SDTV's are cheaper than HDTV's and this is the same resolution as DVD are when you use the component out, which few currently use(most use s-video or composite)

composite(480i), component(720p, or 1080i) not sure if component can do 1080p but component is the analog version of hd vs the digital HDMI or DVI.

I am glad to see nintendo going their own way and offering a new gaming experience. And finally Mario 128 will be out(galaxy). And I also hope a true Mario Kart successor comes out too.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Deciever

[jackwanders]

The Wii will not display at 480i. It will display at 480p widescreen (16x9). Anyone who's gone from the analog to the digital output on their gamecube can tell you that the difference between 480i and 480p is substantial. Of course, you're going to see a bigger difference between 480 and 720 when you have an 80" projector...

...but can't any of you think past your own home theater? Sure, it might have been a mistake for Nintendo not to cater to your specific needs. But guess what? Nintendo's going after a slightly larger demographic.

Also, where do you get the notion that 720p is not a high-def resolution? DVDs don't ouput 720p, but between 480 and 500 vertical lines. DVD-Forum says so, and I'm pretty sure they know what they're talking about.

[Master Shake]

I really want to see TETRIS for the Wii... that would be awesome!!