Chris Pirillo says it like it is...

[redfish]

Some other people go and say "vista lacks consistency", but the example they use is the menu bars have different colors (black in applications such as wmp or the picture gallery, and blue in applications like calendar and mail). That's the stupidiest point ever! If those menu bars behave the exact same, it's not that outrageous that they have a different color depending on the application. Anyway, those menu bars are not the same in all apps, and that's another story.

Yes it is stupid, but most of the complaints are not that far from that in terms of making a mountain of a molehill.

The fact is, vista UI is messy, and "illogical", in most of cases. It doesn't feel fight to me that the taskbar is translucent when the desktop can be seen, and not translucent when the window is maximized. But when I think about it, could it be any different? No. Because they abused the whole "glass" thing, and now everything is a mess.

It makes perfect sense that when something is arresting control of the desktop space, ie when its maximized, you don't see through it to the windows behind. When something isn't arresting control of the desktop space it is part of a desktop with other windows so the title bar is transparent.

First of all, many people have complained that it is now more difficult than ever to differentiate the focused window from inactive windows. And it's true, not much changes: the cyan border, the close button color and a slight change of transparency. The huge shadow in all windows don't go well with glass either. You don't feel the window on-top, "on-top" at all. In windows xp you do, even though it's all plain and with no fancy visual effects!

I don't think differentiating between active and inactive windows is a big problem at all even if there were no cues, I think people are visually perceptive enough to know whats on top.

One thing I liked in XP was the left pane in explorer. It is huge, but it's useful some times. In vista it took me a while to find a method to make a new folder! (rather than right clicking).

Organize-->New Folder (first item). Everything having to do with files, deleting, copying, etc, is under Organize. It really isn't hard, people are just not used to it.

Now, I do think there are some problems with the interface, but to me all of the things you mentioned and others are mentioning are really trivial. I think in many ways the Vista interface design is really smart and some interface elements brilliant. I think the icon design has problems and is too metallic, I think they've been having a problem keeping the explorer from looking messy (not because of poor organization but because of color contrasts---though I really do like the white and blue and I would have to think how I'd want it changed, it isn't an easy problem), I think the IE tabbar-toolbar combination is a little messy. I don't have a problem with toolbars in different applications looking slightly different but I'm not happy that they're moving away from a document oriented os, in that in order to deal with pictures or music in an advanced way, etc., you open a completely separate application, although I somewhat understand it. I also think that there could have been a lot more radical changes to improve things, but I don't underrate the good qualities of Aero.

Overall I'm kind of sick of people talking as if the interface design is trash, and even that the look is trash, implying that an average Windows Blinds skin is better, which is ridiculous because most are disgusting, or as Chris Pirillo implied, that KDE/gnome is better designed. Vista feels so much more pleasant to use day to day than XP because of the design and look. I also think people trashed Luna too much even though I didn't completely like it it did have a lot of good aspects. Most people who are complaining REALLY COULDNT design a better interface; and I'd guess one of the reasons they couldn't is because they can't see what is RIGHT about Aero.

Constructive criticism is good but please don't beat on the Aero designers as if they made something worthless.

[dugbug]

i mean even i can make a better looking chart for my own apps why can't ms shell team do it?

I prefer MS' dialog over yours. But its all opinion anyway.

Could MS make a better disk properties dialog? Sure. Would you stare at it every day? No. This dialog is rarely visited. Would you interact with the shell every day? Yes. Has that one seen a big makeover? Yes.

There are inconsistencies in the UI, but nothing that deserves some of the over-the-top reactions in this thread.

The most bewildering comment from anybody involved Office 2007. Let me tell you, that is one hell of a good UI. The upper-left icon may be retarted, but the UI team went after what counts and that is usability and discovery. Hell of a good job.

-d

[»X«]

Ive been using vista for a while and personally i like its design. Granted it took a little getting used to, but in the end I adapted. Maybe some more people should try it. If its just a case of its downright ugly then im sure you will be able to skin it to death.

Only thing ive found that annoys me is the lack of a back button dropdown arrow in IE7. Theres a forward one but no back..unless I am missing something!

[redfish]

Ive been using vista for a while and personally i like its design. Granted it took a little getting used to, but in the end I adapted. Maybe some more people should try it. If its just a case of its downright ugly then im sure you will be able to skin it to death.

Only thing ive found that annoys me is the lack of a back button dropdown arrow in IE7. Theres a forward one but no back..unless I am missing something!

the dropdown arrow by the forward button shows successive and previous pages (thats why when you highlight them there is a little back icon).

[whitebread]

Actually believe it or not, first impressions always count. And 95% of the time for new users, the UI is what they will use to judge an OS the FIRST time they look at it. Doesn't matter how feature plenty it might be under the hood - if it scares them away, they're less tempted to convince themselves to explore it a second time.

I'm not sure how much that will matter. Anybody who has used any recent version of NT Windows (2000/XP/2003) will be able to use Vista with little difficulty (IMO). Quirks included, whatever->Vista is still far more familiar than DOS/Win 3.1 -> Windows 95. Now THAT was a scary (but eventually welcome) change. Some good things take time to appreciate :D .

[xml]

I prefer MS' dialog over yours. But its all opinion anyway.

snip

-d

i said the CHART not the dialog itself

[redfish]

i said the CHART not the dialog itself

your chart takes up too much space (not being angled), has bad dithering, the pie piece sticking out doesn't make sense for a disk space map, and the text is too small

the chart in windows has been unchanged since windows 95 thats why it looks plain

im sure if the windows team redid it they would add highlighting, and it would look better and more practical than yours

not that i think the windows 95 chart looks bad, it just doesnt fit with the graphics oriented aero interface

[xml]

your chart takes up too much space (not being angled), has bad dithering, the pie piece sticking out doesn't make sense for a disk space map, and the text is too small

the chart in windows has been unchanged since windows 95 thats why it looks plain

im sure if the windows team redid it they would add highlighting, and it would look better and more practical than yours

not that i think the windows 95 chart looks bad, it just doesnt fit with the graphics oriented aero interface

- angles are just variables and can be changed (mine is indeed angled but by a small margin)

- the pie sticking out is optional

- the dithering is because im using a richtextbox to show the image and it has to be converted to a wmf and it loses quality in the process

- text font can be changed

- the chart wasn't based on the windows one so i dont mimc that chart or intend to for that matter (hence these diferences)

you cant possibly believe the current win chart is better than mine, if you do then theres nothing else to talk about

[redfish]

- angles are just variables and can be changed (mine is indeed angled but by a small margin)

- the pie sticking out is optional

- the dithering is because im using a richtextbox to show the image and it has to be converted to a wmf and it loses quality in the process

- text font can be changed

- the chart wasn't based on the windows one so i dont mimc that chart or intend to for that matter (hence these diferences)

you cant possibly believe the current win chart is better than mine, if you do then theres nothing else to talk about

i dont think the current win chart is bad, just that it is out of place because of the updated graphics in aero and could use highlighting. i dont think simple things look bad.

i do think it is more practical than yours in how its displayed, plus i think it looks better in just that i dont like how the dithering looks.

[Kirkburn]

- angles are just variables and can be changed (mine is indeed angled but by a small margin)

- the pie sticking out is optional

- the dithering is because im using a richtextbox to show the image and it has to be converted to a wmf and it loses quality in the process

- text font can be changed

- the chart wasn't based on the windows one so i dont mimc that chart or intend to for that matter (hence these diferences)

you cant possibly believe the current win chart is better than mine, if you do then theres nothing else to talk about

Okay.

I like the current design more than yours. And I'm serious. You seem incapable of understanding the idea that people are allowed to have different opinions. Amazing, isn't it. Edit: I agree with brianshapiro

Yes, the UI has minor inconsistencies. This is plain to see. Are you all over-reacting to it? I certainly believe so.

Programs need different UIs - if someone can actually tell me in all honesty that I'm wrong ... well, er ... I'll go home smiling :) but not s<< racial epithet >>ing, because that's not allowed, apparently :p

Edited September 4, 2006 by Kirkburn

[»X«]

the dropdown arrow by the forward button shows successive and previous pages (thats why when you highlight them there is a little back icon).

Oh yea.. :blush:

[Mayhem]

the vista basic is well consistent in all windows, that titlebar blue is really nice and looks good with the rest of the UI like in Explorer windows.

but i think that people will get use to aero look or someone will make a theme to cover the bad things people don't like in aero glass

[hotdog666al]

I can't wait to be changing that glass skin to something minimal and clean. ^_^

Actually... I can.

[rjtd]

I have used vista for months now as a main os, the UI doesn’t suck at all, UAP needs to be done with but the average computer user can disable that in less than 3 clicks.. The start menu is far superior to windows xp, as mentioned before press windows key and type name of app, or irc://irc.efnet.net - I do that all the time! Saves lots of time and is really fast, As well I’m growing fond of the expanding menus within the start menu, it was awkward for a week or so but now it’s very easy and smooth.

There are problems with the UI yes, but this is RC1, it will be fixed no doubt before RTM.

For all of those who say linux is far better, you are clearly in denial. First of all I’m not an advanced linux user, but I’m not a novice user as well, ubuntu linux is more easy than other distros but its still a pain in the ass, and is no WAY practical for the average computer user. ATI driver support is in the garbage, I had to watch movies at 10 fps, not cool.. Had to edit my xorg config for resolution at least 4 times.. Now someone tell me a right click resolution change for linux????

You cant..

and yes after a while you get used to linux but, this is FAR FAR FAR from acceptable for an average user , so all the linux people saying that its better than VISTA please shut your mouth because you sound defensive and stupid.

And in my honest opinion KDE is the worst UI I have ever used.

Resolution change? System > Preferences > Screen Resolution

You guys are so afraid of LInux that you can't even find a shortcut on a menu. But this is offtopic. Here we are discussing Vista UI consistency. And Ubuntu Linux is more consistent UI wise than Windows Vista. Menus, File dialogs, look&feel, icons, all the same across the applications. And it is even more amazing when you think that the people that did all the different apps did not work on the same campus, and worked for free. Not even on the same country. In Microsoft, they were all in the same place, and they get paid for their work!

Consistency wise, Vista is a joke IMO. And UI wise, it is a total failure. Just take a look at the concept art and videos that were published befora Longhorn (I'm not talking about 4XXXX builds).

Those who say that MS could not innovate because common Joe would be lost on the GUI, just remember that Win95 sported a completely different interface, and everybody got used to it.

Edited September 4, 2006 by rjtd

[Denis W. Veteran]

someone that has the benefit of being in the inner circle of Jim Alchin, that's who Chris Pirillo is. So you can laugh out loud all day and night long, it doesn't change the fact that deep down inside Alchin and the rest of the crew at MS know they screwed up royaly with Vista. Instead of using 5+ years of development time to truly revolutionize the OS world and show the world that MS does in fact still have the best and brightest, they are releasing an OS that apart from the most obvious changes amounts to nothing but a silly cartoon on Friday night.

What would you rather prefer? They scrap all the code, make us wait another God-knows how-long, and make us migrate to other OSes and lose a headful of hair in the process?

I'm not sure what side of the boat you're on: half of your posts show reasonable and thoughtful discussion on Vista, and now you're trashing it as the equivalent of "a silly cartoon on Friday night". :huh:

Overall I'm kind of sick of people talking as if the interface design is trash, and even that the look is trash, implying that an average Windows Blinds skin is better, which is ridiculous because most are disgusting, or as Chris Pirillo implied, that KDE/gnome is better designed. Vista feels so much more pleasant to use day to day than XP because of the design and look. I also think people trashed Luna too much even though I didn't completely like it it did have a lot of good aspects. Most people who are complaining REALLY COULDNT design a better interface; and I'd guess one of the reasons they couldn't is because they can't see what is RIGHT about Aero.

Constructive criticism is good but please don't beat on the Aero designers as if they made something worthless.

Great post. (Y)

I also want to add another odd aspect of Vista's UI: the Aero wizards. Why did they put the back button all the way at the top left and the Next button all the way at the bottom right? It's a bit annoying to flick the mouse all the way across a window to correct a mistake in a wizard.

[cropcircles]

Wow I must be a noob. Who is Chris Pirillo? :huh:

A Paul Thurrott want-a-be from Altoona IA. SE Polk High. . A good friend of mine went to High School with him. He started http://www.lockergnome.com/ I believe. Attention seeking as usual

[blitzableiter]

"What would you rather prefer?" = it's called competition. That's what I prefer; it brings out the best in people, whilst on the flip side of the coin also deprives customers of good, solid products, as is the case with MS Windows Vista.

What side am I on? Simple: the side of what makes the most sense - MS is a monopoly and has made it very, very difficult for anyone to enter and successfully compete in the market arena of ideas, which as my above paragraph says is bad for customers, you, me, & Dupree. Anyone remember the "Be" OS of the mid 90's? It was revolutionary from start to finish; it was a true "media" OS, designed fromt he ground up to be that what Vista is trying to be, without all the crap and junk that Vsita is. Unfortunatley, it never went anywhere due to MS and its strongarm tactics. Oh well, tough luck for the folks at Be.

Having used Vista 5536 (granted not quite RC1, but from most of what I read, 90-95% there, no doubt I will download and install 5600 once generally available) for the past few days it leaves me hanging - the UI inconsistencies for the most part, are in my opinion an utter failure - "Clear, Connected" what crap are you smoking Bill? After all the tra-ra that was PDC 2003, all the hype over the past 4 years (!) Vista is *nothing* what was promised. Sure, people talk about the under the hood changes, which is great and appreciated; I find for example that 5536 has infinitley better memory management then XP, however, if people think we are now supposed to fall flat on our backs and scream hip-hip-hurray from the top of our lungs because of this, someone, somewhere is having a great laugh. Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to be greatful for something that I *should already have had* in XP? Hello? Bueller? Anyone home? Give me a break - run to your closest Apple store and play around with 10.4 - it will knock your socks off how *it's* under the hood stuff is.

To further add insult to the injury, MS couldn't even manage to stick to it's very own guidelines when it comes to all the inconsistencies you run into - not to mention hundreds of old icons, old dialog boxes, old fonts, old, old, old, old, old, Win3.11 CRAP inside Vista to be released in 2007! Heck, they couldn't even get Media Center fully integrated for this release, we now have to wait (!) until Christmas 2007 before MC will get the "overall look and feel of Vista" - what kind of horsecrap is this?

I just don't understand these fanboys here who are apparently so intoxicated with their admiration for Vista that they simply don't see the forest from the tree: you've been on candid camera, and YOU are the f00l!

What would you rather prefer? They scrap all the code, make us wait another God-knows how-long, and make us migrate to other OSes and lose a headful of hair in the process?

I'm not sure what side of the boat you're on: half of your posts show reasonable and thoughtful discussion on Vista, and now you're trashing it as the equivalent of "a silly cartoon on Friday night". :huh:

Great post. (Y)

I also want to add another odd aspect of Vista's UI: the Aero wizards. Why did they put the back button all the way at the top left and the Next button all the way at the bottom right? It's a bit annoying to flick the mouse all the way across a window to correct a mistake in a wizard.

[5Horizons]

This thread almost makes me want to try out Vista to see if it's really as bad as it sounds. I remember thinking that XP was a pain in the a** UI-wise when it came out, but I eventually got used to it and prefer it over 2000. I'm honestly hoping that it's just an issue of slowly getting used to the changes they've made as long as they fix the bugs people have mentioned here... Because I know I'll end up using Windows at work and for application development, so I want it to at least be bearable.

[1Frothy]

This thread almost makes me want to try out Vista to see if it's really as bad as it sounds. I remember thinking that XP was a pain in the a** UI-wise when it came out, but I eventually got used to it and prefer it over 2000. I'm honestly hoping that it's just an issue of slowly getting used to the changes they've made as long as they fix the bugs people have mentioned here... Because I know I'll end up using Windows at work and for application development, so I want it to at least be bearable.

RC1 is not that bad, I guess some like me are annoyed that Vista is not as good as it could be. And there are a few features of Vista and its Interface that are annoying. But, overall it is better than XP and I'm sure what follows Vista will include Aero V2 which may actually be far more functional than what Aero in Vista currently is. :blush:

[DG55]

Jeez guys, RC1 is not bad at all. Playing with the Pre RC really got me enthusiastic about finally running Vista properly! I found it a really nice experience, am I the only person who enjoys using flip3D? Its just as useful as alt-tab, but in its own way. This is going to make my life so much easier when I have a million apps and folders open. Even the small things like the new transfer windows are just such a welcome change, the whole thing flows really nicely and its almost a soothing experience after the jerky windows 95 style dialogues we're all so used to now. Its stable, fast, pretty, and full of some really welcome apps and updates. Steve Ball got it spot on in a recent Channel 9 video - Vista includes global improvements and rethinks over the entire system, all culuminating in a far better product than XP.

The only thing to really be disappointed with are the things which unfortunately didnt make it to release, but theyre only things we have to look forward to in Vienna. :) Look on the bright side for a change!

[sleekgeek]

There's a real quick way to fix the UI, themes -- classic -- apply. Then you say that is old and ugly, because for some reason you feel the need to dress your productivity machine up like a little girl.

The downside to the new UI due to malware, ignorant users, and clogged tech support lines is that you get a crippled interface. Best example is right clicking the desktop to be met with the personalize option. There hasn't been so much clickity clack since the dark ages of OS* and Win3.1

How hard is it to download Powerdesk anyway?

[Shadrack]

I expected a consistent UI w/ Vista as well. Since the new UI is eating away 500+ MB of ram on a clean boot you'd expect there to be a point to that entire waste of ram. But Windows Explorer, Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, and Office applications have there own look and feel that is uniquely Microsoft in its inconsistency.

I'll be using XP until SP1 is released unless there is overwhelming evidence that Vista magically improves performance and stability over XP on most hardware.

[mindscape]

Sadly, I do agree with him. But, i decided to stick w/ Windows. I had a bad experience with Linux and if it werent for Apple's horrible attitudes, I would have switched to OS X. But its Vista for me for now.

[1Frothy]

I expected a consistent UI w/ Vista as well. Since the new UI is eating away 500+ MB of ram on a clean boot you'd expect there to be a point to that entire waste of ram. But Windows Explorer, Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, and Office applications have there own look and feel that is uniquely Microsoft in its inconsistency.

I'll be using XP until SP1 is released unless there is overwhelming evidence that Vista magically improves performance and stability over XP on most hardware.

I don't think Microsoft could make a consistent Interface in an operating system. Windows is too big, too many fingers in the pie. Each group with its brilliant ideas. That's why Windows will never be consistent. :ermm:

Hey. When are Microsoft getting started on SP3 for Windows XP? :shifty: That's something I'm definitely interested in.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Even the small things like the new transfer windows are just such a welcome change

Recently I noticed the transfer windows now display the transfer rate in MB/sec if you display the details. :yes:

Hey. When are Microsoft getting started on SP3 for Windows XP? :shifty: That's something I'm definitely interested in.

They have already started on SP3. All the fixes following SP2 (quite a lot of fixes in fact) are part of SP3.

SP3 won't be nearly as dramatic as SP2; SP2 was a rare exception in that it brought in a nice handful of new features to XP.