Chris Pirillo says it like it is...

[blitzableiter]

well it's rather obvious that Vista is intended for people just like YOU, ie. the ones that think that MS God's gift to mankind.

ignorance is bliss as they say...

PS: anyone with subtitles such as "Punk Ass Bitch" must be suffering from some inferiority complex otherwise I don't see why you would want the world to know how "tough" you are.

I said it before but here goes. You 10 or 15 whiny little geeks are the minority. You are not the target audience for this OS. You people can't stop crying long enough to realise this I guess. Oh well, what's mommy making for dinner tonight?

[trek]

I said it before but here goes. You 10 or 15 whiny little geeks are the minority. You are not the target audience for this OS. You people can't stop crying long enough to realise this I guess. Oh well, what's mommy making for dinner tonight?

and who is the target audience for this os then; oh mighty one?

[rjtd]

Sad thing about this, is that they redesigned that UI parts that are inconsistent.

I would accept that older apps, unchanged, would run differently than the rest.

But they redesigned them, and they didn't even care to make them behave the same way, or have the same layout and colors.

They even go againts their UI guidelines.

Sad thing is that Vienna is years away, and prob will be another disapointment.

I'm not a MacOSX fan, but I admit that even their inconsistency is better than MS Inconsistency. At least all their themes are beatifull, non distracting and they don't waste space on my monitor.

I only have 1280x768 real estate, and that will be filled with empty window titlebars! What is the use of empty titlebars? I really don't get this. Ohh! That way we can see that glassy effect. Yeah, that is really what I always wanted to do with my screen space.

http://winsupersite.com/images/showcase/rc1_11.jpg

Fugly. Colors are darker than the explorer windows. So much wasted space. chavo, can you please tell me what would you do with that empty space on the titlebar?!

[Kirkburn]

Win95 was more revolutionary UI and OS wise, and they did it in less than five years.

It is kind of sad that the biggest company in the world (not just software) cannot make the greatest UI out there.

Next time, I guess they would be better by outsourcing the UI design to someone else, and not to Microsoft Design team.

BTW, Zune interface is just becoming a disapointment. And OFFICe UI looks like an application for kids.

Why on the Earth do Office Teams and Vista Teams do not communicate? For example, Office team thinks that a TAB UI is better for productivity. But if you look at vista, only Media Player is using that tab approach. So, what is better?

I can only assume you haven't actually tried the Office 2007 UI? Because if you had, you wouldn't have just said such a silly thing.

Can no-one get it into their heads that different programs need different UIs. What works for Office 2007 obviously won't work for folder windows, because it just doesn't. The same goes for Media Player - if it had an Office 2007-like UI, it would be a waste of space. If it had an explorer-like interface, people would complain that it was too complicated and/or boring.

Think about it for a few seconds. Notice how everyone doesn't live in identical houses, drive identical cars, eat identical food? It's because people need different things, and so do programs.

And before someone makes a smartassed reply, no, I have not just said the Vista UI is perfect. However I will say it's not the failure some of you want to believe. Just like you want to believe Microsoft is evil and incompetent. If you're so good, why don't you submit an application to them to help them out? Maybe you could send them some ideas of how to improve it? Problem is, you won't .. will you?

Edited September 3, 2006 by Kirkburn

[rjtd]

I'm not talking about the UI layout because I like that new tab disposal.

But I hate that color scheme and that glassyness. It looks like a toy. But it is where I will do most of my work. I don't want a work tool to look like a playground for kids

Kirkburn, I will give you an example about the second thing you said. Windows Media player also has that tab like menu. But when you click in them, a menu comes up. In Office, the options that were staying in a menu are in the tab! But tabs on Windows Media Player and Office look the same. But they behave differently than Office tabs.

Also, if you use a bar on the same place and with the same funcionality, why will you make it darker on one window and lighter in another?! That is another example. Look at explorer toolbar and Calentar bar. Same functionality, different colors. Why?

But yeahhh, maybe I'm asking too much. It is very sad that I will be keeping XP and will not be able to use the new security features, new DX10 games and new TCP stack, because I refuse to use such a GUI, and surelly I will not pay for this crap.

Even that fake one everybody was talking about this week looked better than Vista!!! Even that little concepts from MS Design looked better than Aero!!!! MS couldn't implement their own designs!

A thing that even Novell, with very little manpower and money, did! And they even managed to do a DWM like Xserver quicker than MS and their Vista stuff, with only one guy working on it.

Edited September 3, 2006 by rjtd

[DG55]

When you actually use the UI, it really doesnt suck that much, many of the inconsistencies arent that bad, I think we're all looking in the wrong areas here.

My problem is things like the control panel - the interface seems pretty random, im not sure why they've split things into explorer type windows instead of tabs, they could have put some WMP style tabs on the green option bar at the top of the window, to navigate the display area for example.

Not to mention the green utility bar at the top of the explorer Windows strangely does not complement the light blue gradient of the file-info section at the bottom. Whats this all about?

Another thing is the column on the left of control panel windows, that random blue/green gradient, whats going on there? It looks horrible. Im dissapointed by RC-1, I would have liked to see some of these UI 'fit and finish' updates, it just seems so late in the game to be changing things around before RTM.

Although the good news is that Alchin confirmed in his 'RC-1 Speech', that fit and finish updates would be coming in the interims before RTM. Now we've seen some of the cleaned up UI screenshots on the Microsoft Design websites (see Long Zhengs blog) so hopefully we will see these by next release.

Otherwise, its not that bad. I actually found the pre-RC1 quite easy to use, I was suprised with the updates from Beta2, the whole thing was quite visually appealing and easy to use, I liked it.

Chris Pirillo is partly right in his blog, there are some inconsistencies in the UI. But this is the first i've heard of this illusive guy - and I lost faith in his reportage as soon as a read the title of his blog post on this subject. Unlucky for him.

[dduardo]

I think the bottom line is: What can you do in Vista that you can't already do?

If you can't come up with a good answer for the type of things you do, then Vista is not worth it.

It all depends on the individual and their particular needs.

In other words: You're not going to invest in a new computer if your current one does everything you want and more.

Oh, and for those gamers that say that they need DirectX 10, the argument doesn't hold any water. You have to understand that DirectX is simply an API. Any good programmer can write code that has equivalent functionality in DirectX 9, OpenGL or direct GPU progamming.

[-Anthony]

Vista UI team should take lessons from Office UI team, their UI improvements are the best I have seen from Microsoft in years, I love(d) the ribbon.

[micro]

I have used vista for months now as a main os, the UI doesn’t suck at all, UAP needs to be done with but the average computer user can disable that in less than 3 clicks.. The start menu is far superior to windows xp, as mentioned before press windows key and type name of app, or irc://irc.efnet.net - I do that all the time! Saves lots of time and is really fast, As well I’m growing fond of the expanding menus within the start menu, it was awkward for a week or so but now it’s very easy and smooth.

There are problems with the UI yes, but this is RC1, it will be fixed no doubt before RTM.

For all of those who say linux is far better, you are clearly in denial. First of all I’m not an advanced linux user, but I’m not a novice user as well, ubuntu linux is more easy than other distros but its still a pain in the ass, and is no WAY practical for the average computer user. ATI driver support is in the garbage, I had to watch movies at 10 fps, not cool.. Had to edit my xorg config for resolution at least 4 times.. Now someone tell me a right click resolution change for linux????

You cant..

and yes after a while you get used to linux but, this is FAR FAR FAR from acceptable for an average user , so all the linux people saying that its better than VISTA please shut your mouth because you sound defensive and stupid.

And in my honest opinion KDE is the worst UI I have ever used.

[tronmaster]

The UI is not revolutionary and I think that is the problem. You think after 5 years (I know the reasons why it took this long but the average Joe doesn't) that it would be better. You know yesterday I was trying to find out where the hybernate was located, "previously" it was with Display. Of course now there is no display, and it didn't occur to me until I read every icon text to see it was under Power, duh!

Remember the early video of Longhorn? With icons flashing, and wild animation? Nothing of that is here. It's like were on a tight deadline and let's make it like a WindowsBlind (insert trademark here) extension. Why are we exactly running the desktop in 3D anyway? What do we see that a 2D desktop that we all have been using since who knows when.

Admittedly, its only RC1 and unlike other companies RC1 is not RC1, so MS still has time to change things. But something you just wonder. Like why show transparencies on windows, just so when we maximize it, the bar becomes solid?

Don't get me wrong, I will be one of the first to purchase Windows Vista Ultimate when it comes out, just for the security alone. But after 5 years it is a disappointment. I know some people mentioned Office 2007, I been testing that, and the difference between that and 2003 is astonishing. Things that I couldn't do because I had no idea where it went was easily displayed and understandable with its large and easy icons.

To bad the Office 2007, couldn't have really make Windows Vista.

[Grope for Luna]

You are not the target audience for this OS.

The target audience is still running the default blue Luna theme. :rolleyes:

[Commodore Max]

The one that kills me with Vista is that if you open the Windows Photo Gallery and WMP11 you'll find a load of wasted space at the bottom of the window, in WMP11 you can grab that space and move the app around but with Windows Photo Gallery you cannot. That's a true indication that things really aren't linking together.

I've also noticed that, it's quite annoying.

I think the main problem with Vista's UI is that it has so much potential that everyone knows it could be so much better, and in the end it's very disappointing. This is not going to have nearly as much success as Windows 95 back in the day.

Vista UI team should take lessons from Office UI team, their UI improvements are the best I have seen from Microsoft in years, I love(d) the ribbon.

Really ? I find it looked better when it was blue and silver. Now with all this orange everywhere, I find it's UI to be even more confusing than Vista's.

[daniel_rh]

Revolutionary UI? What do you want? Star shaped windows?. Most of you want is an all brand new OS, but come on people, that's impossible, not because Microsoft can't do it, is because Microsoft don't wanna do it. The legacy support would be hurt, at least 50% of Windows users are retarded about computing thing, If you change to much an OS the people will running away of it.

Most of the people that post in the topic are "GEEK" or something like that, the point of view of you represent, I don't know... Maybe 10-20% of computer users?

Anyway, who's C. Pirillo? Is a Computer Evangelist? Come on, think by yourself. Don't hate make peace. Look the positive things not the bad things.

[freak_power]

There are two functions or two ways to do OS. The one way is to follow OSX principle where every app looks almost exact same. The other principle is Vista where each app brings its own look and feel and functions. You people are not talking about kernel, updated NTFS etc, DX10.0...all those things will make Vista to outperform OSX and Linux...pretty much OSX and Linux are crap OSs....

As I said before OSX might look nice, but underhood is one big pile of **** which runs games for 50>% slower then Windows....

I don't think UI finalized...afterall...

I use windows classic look anyway...always did and always liked, simple, effective, slick. The best one was Windows 2000, had minor upgrades on top of Windows 95 look. The only thing which matters to me is Vista engine...

Edited September 3, 2006 by freak_power

[AltecXP]

I use Office 2007 everday at work on my main system...love it. But I cant make myself run Vista for more then a few day w/o getting UTTERY ****ed at the UI. its inconsistancies, waste of space, it is overall ugly IMO I typicly turn Aero off and run Vista Basic.

Grant it the technology in this release is a REALLY great thing, but I would honestly rather run the XP interface then Vista's.

[xml]

and another thing just look at the disk properties dialog. it's the same since win 95.

i mean even i can make a better looking chart for my own apps why can't ms shell team do it?

[micro]

wow ITS RC1 DO YOU PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL BE HERE WHEN ITS FINAL!? if you do please do your self a favor and SHOOT your self..

[Vice]

wow ITS RC1 DO YOU PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL BE HERE WHEN ITS FINAL!? if you do please do your self a favor and SHOOT your self..

It's release cadidate 1. Pretty much everything we see now will be in the shipping version.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I said it before but here goes. You 10 or 15 whiny little geeks are the minority. You are not the target audience for this OS. You people can't stop crying long enough to realise this I guess. Oh well, what's mommy making for dinner tonight?

Wow! The ego has landed!

If GEEKS are complaining about UI inconsistencies and general usability issues then what help have the moms and pops out there?

I must admit I found a few elements of the UI in pre-RC1 a little confusing and a fairly large departure from XP.. obviously we'll get used to it but people who're a bit newbie and are used to XP are going to struggle!

[Kirkburn]

Can I just ask a question here (especially with those screenshots above) ... why does everything have to be new, exactly? The screenshots above show the information perfectly adequately.

Do you want speed, or fancy graphics in even the most trvial of locations?

[1Frothy]

yeah chris is right.

vista ui is a piece of crap. i cant believe the biggest software company in the world cant do any thing better than that. it's frikkin unbelievable! :angry:

Not only that....

.... it's"By Design" :laugh:

[Julius Caro]

Some people fail to see the point. It's not about vista having improved in matters of kernel, stability, etc. Or OSX having less software available than windows.

This guy is talking about the User interface!

Some other people go and say "vista lacks consistency", but the example they use is the menu bars have different colors (black in applications such as wmp or the picture gallery, and blue in applications like calendar and mail). That's the stupidiest point ever! If those menu bars behave the exact same, it's not that outrageous that they have a different color depending on the application. Anyway, those menu bars are not the same in all apps, and that's another story.

Look at office 2007. They pulled a completely NEW UI and it rocks, and yet is different than anything else done in windows before.

The fact is, vista UI is messy, and "illogical", in most of cases. It doesn't feel fight to me that the taskbar is translucent when the desktop can be seen, and not translucent when the window is maximized. But when I think about it, could it be any different? No. Because they abused the whole "glass" thing, and now everything is a mess.

First of all, many people have complained that it is now more difficult than ever to differentiate the focused window from inactive windows. And it's true, not much changes: the cyan border, the close button color and a slight change of transparency. The huge shadow in all windows don't go well with glass either. You don't feel the window on-top, "on-top" at all. In windows xp you do, even though it's all plain and with no fancy visual effects!

One thing I liked in XP was the left pane in explorer. It is huge, but it's useful some times. In vista it took me a while to find a method to make a new folder! (rather than right clicking).

And to all those complaining about old things still present, I'd say "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". It's fine that they update the icons, and stuff, but what kind of amazing things do you expect from the "add font" dialog?

They're definitely experimenting. In wlm, wmp11, ie7... you can see that they are trying to get rid of the menus. "File, edit, etc.." they want to make it a thing of the past. And what's the replacement for the menus? Icons!! I think there are many icons in the wmp11 library. On the other hand, in the management console, they updated all the icons and it's hard to difference all icons from the others. They look the same to me.

And yet in the start bar they got rid of all the useful icons in the right pane (computer, documents, pictures, etc).

The "all programs" menu also feels weird. I dont think it's a bad idea, but icons are way too small. Those fancy icons they've designed for vista are better for bigger sizes. There's not much you can do with 16x16 icons anymore.

[1Frothy]

Vista UI team should take lessons from Office UI team, their UI improvements are the best I have seen from Microsoft in years, I love(d) the ribbon.

(Y) Agreed!! :yes:

I think Windows won't have a decent UI until:

1. Microsoft fires all their UI Guru's

2. Jim Allchin leaves Microsoft / Windows Group

3. Steven Sinofsky takes full control of the Windows Group and releases Windows %codename% plus Point 1.

The target audience is still running the default blue Luna theme. :rolleyes:

I prefer it to Aero. :yes:

[redfish]

all i had to read is that chris pirillo thinks KDE/gnome looks, works, and feels better than Windows Vista and i understood immediately how distorted his perception is. the vista interface has a few problems in my view and they could have been more radical, but people are giving the UI far too little credit, its much much better than people are saying it is. in many ways its even better than the early Longhorn prototypes, and there are many aspects of the interface which are brilliant. there are some shortcomings, but i still believe the Vista UI to be the best on the market

[1Frothy]

wow ITS RC1 DO YOU PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL BE HERE WHEN ITS FINAL!? if you do please do your self a favor and SHOOT your self..

UI wise - yes!! You may want to point the gun towards yourself.