Upgrade version: bad news

By Andy1369
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Rising Star

Morpheus Phreak

Posted
Posted

Fair enough, thx for the info :) seems rather strange way of doing it though, so an upgrade can't do a fresh install like the XP upgrade could (when you prove you own a copy of the previous OS your upgrading from) and the full install can't upgrade...seems rather odd considering that RC1 could do a clean install or upgrade...guess MS want to make it clear that the Upgrade version is only for upgrading and the Full is only for a clean install I guess.

Nope you're still lost lol

Ok let me re-explain this.

The DVD's are identical, so they both function EXACTLY the same way.

The only way to access the Upgrade option from any Vista edition (Retail, OEM, Upgrade, ect.) is while inside of a Windows Environment, however the Upgrade option is only available on Windows XP, since you cannot Upgrade a Windows 2000 install.

Now on Windows 2000 what you have to do is boot up Windows 2000 and when inside of Windows 2000 choose to run a New Install, instead of an upgrade since it does not support Upgrades.

So to sum up, you cannot use the upgrade option from boot on any version of Vista, be it full version or upgrade version. The only way to use the upgrade option is from within a Windows XP environment. The New Installation option on an Upgrade DVD can only be ran from inside a Windows 2000/XP environment due to the key restriction. However on a full version DVD you can run the New Install option from boot.

Make more sense now?

Mentor

Huy

Posted
Posted (edited)

So what's the best way to get Vista, legally and cheaply?

Have Windows 2000 legally and install Vista cleanly from an Upgrade edition of Vista? Doesn't that install freshly?

I don't care about my files/settings. They're backed up anyway.

Edit

Yes I think I'm right. I'll just have to install 2000/XP and have it activate etc, then decide to do a "full install" from within XP for example and off you go.

Edited by Huy
Grand Master

Xerxes

Posted
Posted

Nope you're still lost lol

Ok let me re-explain this.

The DVD's are identical, so they both function EXACTLY the same way.

The only way to access the Upgrade option from any Vista edition (Retail, OEM, Upgrade, ect.) is while inside of a Windows Environment, however the Upgrade option is only available on Windows XP, since you cannot Upgrade a Windows 2000 install.

Now on Windows 2000 what you have to do is boot up Windows 2000 and when inside of Windows 2000 choose to run a New Install, instead of an upgrade since it does not support Upgrades.

So to sum up, you cannot use the upgrade option from boot on any version of Vista, be it full version or upgrade version. The only way to use the upgrade option is from within a Windows XP environment. The New Installation option on an Upgrade DVD can only be ran from inside a Windows 2000/XP environment due to the key restriction. However on a full version DVD you can run the New Install option from boot.

Make more sense now?

So you can only clean install from boot or from within Win2k/XP, or upgrade from within XP (2k doesn't support upgrading) have I got it right this time? :unsure:

Rising Star

Morpheus Phreak

Posted
Posted

So you can only clean install from boot or from within Win2k/XP, or upgrade from within XP (2k doesn't support upgrading) have I got it right this time? :unsure:

Yes and no.

A clean install from boot is only supported on full versions. Upgrade versions will only work from within a version of Windows itself. That way they can guarantee that the copy of Windows that you're using to upgrade from is a genuine copy. They really don't have a way of doing that at boot time that's why it's not allowed on upgrade discs. Does that make a little more sense or am I still explaining it wrong?

By the way, I am dictating this using the new vista speech recognition tools. Isn't that cool?

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

So basically, if you should need to wipe your HD in the future and need to reinstall Vista, and you only have the upgrade version; you have to install XP first THEN install Vista?

That majorly sucks! Surely a better way is to allow the install from boot, but require the old product key be input as well as the new one, before it can be activated? Seems a much better way to do it.

Anything is just a MAJOR inconvenience to well.. 1000's and 1000's of people really!

Grand Master

WelshBluebird

Posted
Posted

So what's the best way to get Vista, legally and cheaply?

Have Windows 2000 legally and install Vista cleanly from an Upgrade edition of Vista? Doesn't that install freshly?

I don't care about my files/settings. They're backed up anyway.

Edit

Yes I think I'm right. I'll just have to install 2000/XP and have it activate etc, then decide to do a "full install" from within XP for example and off you go.

the easiest and cheapest way is to just get an OEM copy of Vista, and do a clean install

Atm, you can get OEM copies of XP Home for around ?60, while upgrade versions are around ?86. (FYI, the full version of XP home is around ?160 - just so you can see the difference).

However, the problem you may have is that OEM versions are tied to the motherboard they are first install on, and so if you change motherboards, you should have to get a new licence. Although some people have been able to activate an OEM copy of XP on a second motherboard.

Experienced

Aero Ultimate

Posted
Posted

So basically, if you should need to wipe your HD in the future and need to reinstall Vista, and you only have the upgrade version; you have to install XP first THEN install Vista?

That majorly sucks! Surely a better way is to allow the install from boot, but require the old product key be input as well as the new one, before it can be activated? Seems a much better way to do it.

Anything is just a MAJOR inconvenience to well.. 1000's and 1000's of people really!

Yes, that way they could also check if XP is legal. Having to install XP first, just to install Vista, is indeed very ugly.

It may be not as bad now where any sane person will still keep XP around until there's full driver and program support for Vista, but in a few years, this will be a serious pain in the a$$ :crazy:

Grand Master

Denis W. Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

I guess that makes sense (only allowing an upgrade/clean install from within the operating system environment) BUT BUT BUT how would users handle it if their copy of Vista got corrupted? How would they "repair" from the DVD? How would they run the Startup Repair tool?

Something's just not right here.

Welcome to the world of OEM OS installs. My previous VAIO PC only came with a set of three discs that images a copy of XP, with some of their bundled crap (the rest of their programs came on two other discs). That was my only solution to a botched XP install at the time. No option to boot off a disc into Recovery Console whatsoever.

They figure it's not worth their time to integrate their bundled software into the XP install discs, so they take a less messy approach. Bet they won't change their act with Vista either.

Grand Master

Xerxes

Posted
Posted

Yes and no.

A clean install from boot is only supported on full versions. Upgrade versions will only work from within a version of Windows itself. That way they can guarantee that the copy of Windows that you're using to upgrade from is a genuine copy. They really don't have a way of doing that at boot time that's why it's not allowed on upgrade discs. Does that make a little more sense or am I still explaining it wrong?

By the way, I am dictating this using the new vista speech recognition tools. Isn't that cool?

I think it does now, thx :)

Yeah that is cool :cool:

Grand Master

Julius Caro

Posted
Posted

I still don't get it.

Have they changed the license again? Buying an upgrade version never meant losing some functionality (in this case, losing the ability of a clean install when you have windows xp).

What I mean is, upgrade version "condition" was to have an earlier version of windows. And that's why it would check for a CD of a previous version. But this never meant that you would lose the ability of doing clean installs, etc.

Unless the license explicitly says that an upgrade version of vista can only be installed on top of a previous XP installation, then there's absolutely no reason to believe that help article. Because for all sakes, upgrade version or not, you're still buying the SAME product. The only difference is the license terms and the condition for you to be using the upgrade (== cheaper) version instead of the more expensive one.

Proficient

grunger106

Posted
Posted

Heres the deal,

You CAN boot from the vista DVD, the edition you install is decided by the key entered

However if you Boot from the DVD you can only do a CLEAN install, you can't upgrade you existing OS.

If you do not boot from the vista DVD and run the install from within your existing windows installation, you have 2 options, to do a clean install OR upgrade inplace your existing OS install

Enthusiast

Runt888

Posted
Posted
Heres the deal,

You CAN boot from the vista DVD, the edition you install is decided by the key entered

However if you Boot from the DVD you can only do a CLEAN install, you can't upgrade you existing OS.

If you do not boot from the vista DVD and run the install from within your existing windows installation, you have 2 options, to do a clean install OR upgrade inplace your existing OS install

So you're saying that you can boot from and do a clean install from an upgrade disk? That means that the original poster is completely incorrect (as is the MS help). Others have been saying that you can not do a clean install by booting from an upgrade disk; the only way is by running the install program from a valid windows installation.

However, if it is true that all disks are identical (OEM, upgrade, and retail) and the key is used to differentiate between them, then you have to be able to do a clean install from the upgrade disk, since you can do the install without entering a license key.

Experienced

Andy1369

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I still don't get it.

Have they changed the license again? Buying an upgrade version never meant losing some functionality (in this case, losing the ability of a clean install when you have windows xp).

What I mean is, upgrade version "condition" was to have an earlier version of windows. And that's why it would check for a CD of a previous version. But this never meant that you would lose the ability of doing clean installs, etc.

Unless the license explicitly says that an upgrade version of vista can only be installed on top of a previous XP installation, then there's absolutely no reason to believe that help article. Because for all sakes, upgrade version or not, you're still buying the SAME product. The only difference is the license terms and the condition for you to be using the upgrade (== cheaper) version instead of the more expensive one.

Well, why does the Help file say that, then? It's RTM - shouldn't the Help file be updated too?

Grand Master

Julius Caro

Posted
Posted

Well, why does the Help file say that, then? It's RTM - shouldn't the Help file be updated too?

Shouldn't the LICENSE be updated too? If the upgrade version is crippling some functionality (and I consider a clean install a feature), then it should be stated somewhere, not just in the help.

I'm inclined to think that the help file means that you can only perform an upgrade from within the previous version of windows, and not by booting the disc.

Experienced

Aero Ultimate

Posted
Posted

Shouldn't the LICENSE be updated too? If the upgrade version is crippling some functionality (and I consider a clean install a feature), then it should be stated somewhere, not just in the help.

I'm inclined to think that the help file means that you can only perform an upgrade from within the previous version of windows, and not by booting the disc.

Yesthat would be better... not being able to install from boot with an upgrade dvd would be a serious crippling indeed.

Veteran

ambiance

Posted
Posted

So let me get this clear as I am unsure going through all this thread. I have a legitimate copy of xp pro and buy an upgrade copy of vista ultimate. I can only install it through the windows environment and I can do an upgrade or clean (which I plan on) install, but if my hd dies I have to install xp for it to work because of wga?

If that's the case its worth it to save me $200 and <sarcasm>thanks</sarcasm> microsoft for not just having vista starter and vista.

Rising Star

Morpheus Phreak

Posted
Posted

Yesthat would be better... not being able to install from boot with an upgrade dvd would be a serious crippling indeed.

How is it crippling to people who aren't pirates?

Here's how it works.

You have XP installed.

You put in the Vista Upgrade DVD.

It asks if you want to do a clean install or upgrade.

You choose which one you want and it does it's thing.

What's wrong with that?

Veteran

Stetson

Posted
Posted

Whats wrong is that when you have to start fresh (reformat or new HD), you have to install XP and THEN Vista. One of the main features of Vista is that it only takes ~20 minutes to install. The quick install time is worth nothing when you have to do a ~1 hour XP install first. :angry:

Mentor

Huy

Posted
Posted

Bummer, but that's why you're paying for the cheaper "upgrade" version. Since you intend on upgrading an existing OS to Vista. Otherwise you'd be paying for the full version copy which can boot off the DVD and start fresh, without having to install a previous version.

Sucks, but that's the only way to validate (WGA) your copy of XP/upgrade to Vista.

Veteran

ambiance

Posted
Posted
Sucks, but that's the only way to validate (WGA) your copy of XP/upgrade to Vista.

They couldn't have offered an option to enter your key during installation? I disagree with that statement. It shouldn't be a problem as it could establish internet connectivity and validate once setup starts and has loaded the necessary files.

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