Upgrade version: bad news

[ShaneSparky_YYZ]

Ouch, that sucks, but I'm surprised it wasn't liked that before Vista.

[Stetson]

They couldn't have offered an option to enter your key during installation? I disagree with that statement. It shouldn't be a problem as it could establish internet connectivity and validate once setup starts and has loaded the necessary files.

I agree. Just make it so that when you enter an upgrade key during setup, it displays a second box to type in your XP etc. license key. Once Vista is installed and goes to activate, it checks both keys.

[Huy]

They couldn't have offered an option to enter your key during installation? I disagree with that statement. It shouldn't be a problem as it could establish internet connectivity and validate once setup starts and has loaded the necessary files.

Very true. I did realise that my statement was not 'entirely' correct, but it is the way Microsoft have implemented it so that's why I chose to say it is the only option.

You're quite right though, in saying that they had other alternative solutions, such as the one you've suggested, but I suppose they wanted to ensure you were running it, at the time of upgrading. (or something).

Perhaps they thought about cases where someone had no Internet connectivity at the time of upgrading, but had previously been validated/activated on Windows XP months or years earlier. It would also involve (by your solution) validating twice? Once for XP's key, and again for Vista's key?

I don't know, but whatever the reason, that's the way Microsoft have chosen to do upgrades. You're right in saying that they had other options open to them though. :)

[FloatingFatMan]

What I don't get is, ALL the Vista discs are the same.. You can install without entering a key and even use it for 30 days. So this means that if you do a clean install and don't enter your upgrade key until AFTER installation, Vista will immediately disable itself, require you to wipe and install XP, and THEN tell you to install Vista.

Have MS got ANY idea how many people that's going to <bleep!> off?

And why hasn't the license been updated to tell users this? I suspect it'll work the same way as XP does now, just ask for qualifying media to confirm, or at least just ask for the XP key... I mean, it's not like upgrade codes are available yet for anyone to confirm how exactly it's going to work.

[Tom B]

There is NO logic in making you install XP first. Is it going to check it's a genuine XP install? Probably not. What if you've just installed XP With no service pack and no WGA just so you can install Vista. You could easily install a pirate copy of XP. It makes more sense for the Vista to ask for your XP key then validate it rather than have vista setup require XP to be installed.

I'm guessing it'll be like XP upgrade edition. There is no reason for it not to allow you to boot the installer from the CD.

[ambiance]

This will suck for me because I have a SP1 version disc and I will have to install WGA or some crap to please Microsoft. I have had bluescreen problems during XP installations where I have had to wipe everything and start over from scratch. Who is to say this will not happen half way through a Vista installation and then I have to re-install XP just to start over again. They need to re-consider their upgrade discs just like they did their licensing so they don't alienate customers.

What also sucks is I have sent quite a few "Dear Microsoft" letters and was careful not to say anything out of line as I do here in Neowin. I guess they can't take constructive criticism or are sick of hearing me because this is what I get now. I am almost certain they are blocking me unless someone can prove me wrong.

[macrosslover]

I don't understand what's being said unless MS has done a complete 180, according to their retail expert zone, the info they are seeding out as part of the "training" clearly states that for example if you upgrade from Windows XP Home to Vista Home Premium, the upgrade version of Vista will be able to let you choose a clean version or an in-place upgrade. so the upgrade should work just like before, it wouldn't make sense to force you to install XP just so the Vista setup can reformat the harddrive anyway to install vista that's just stupid.

[trek]

This will suck for me because I have a SP1 version disc and I will have to install WGA or some crap to please Microsoft. I have had bluescreen problems during XP installations where I have had to wipe everything and start over from scratch. Who is to say this will not happen half way through a Vista installation and then I have to re-install XP just to start over again. They need to re-consider their upgrade discs just like they did their licensing so they don't alienate customers.

What also sucks is I have sent quite a few "Dear Microsoft" letters and was careful not to say anything out of line as I do here in Neowin. I guess they can't take constructive criticism or are sick of hearing me because this is what I get now. I am almost certain they are blocking me unless someone can prove me wrong.

I can still access that site. There are no options to post feedback on rtm 6000 anyway so you ain't missing much.

[ambiance]

Not impressed one bit. If it weren't for gaming I would switch to anything other than Microsoft. They are so out of touch with their customer base.

[Julius Caro]

Seriously, has it been CONFIRMED?

[ambiance]

I have contacted Microsoft regarding the upgrade having no boot time installation and they are getting back to be.

[Gstar]

I have contacted Microsoft regarding the upgrade having no boot time installation and they are getting back to be.

Great! Thanks! :)

[seafirex]

Well i did a upgrade from winxp pro sp2 to vista, and at no time it requested the winxp pro sp2 cd-key , only the vista cd-key they requested.

So i can't tell if the in-store version will have it, but it should not. Even if it does have that type of validation the new WGA does not currently cause any issue with the cd keys validation, so the only way we could see someone getting an error it would be as per the cdkey for winxp of that person is a fake one. At that point who cares if he can't upgrade. it is not microsoft fault at all at that point.

But anyway's i am sure there will be issue's , as per since when did we see any microsoft software come out without anything bad happening, it's at the point that sometimes i wonder if people make it happend just to brag about it. :)

[viciv]

that sucks :(

[ambiance]

Hello, Here is an update on your inquiry about Windows Vista Ultimate. Please accept our apologies for the delay in our response. WinSAT is available in all editions of Windows Vista. It is true that the upgrade to Windows Vista can only be run from inside Windows XP. The Windows Vista product group has also provided the following information about how this works. a. Recovery on a true bare metal system (formatted disk, no system installed) requires a PSS call, there is no way to use retail media on a boot from media install. PSS has the infrastructure to help customers in this case. b. If you want to install from retail media without a PSS call, yes you?ll have to reinstall Windows XP, then upgrade to Windows Vista. c. In the case where setup fails we have implemented rollback, something we didn?t have for Windows XP - a failed upgrade will simply return the machine back to Windows XP. d. If you choose to clean install from Windows XP, with a failure, the OS will also roll back. e. Windows Vista never really ?Erases? Windows XP until you have successfully reached the new desktop. f. If you need the ability to clean install for bare metal systems, you must buy the full product package, not the upgrade edition. Should you have other quiestions, please feel free to write back. Did I completely answer your question? Please let us know by replying to this message. Thank you

Straight from Microsoft. I was going to grab Home Premium Full, but even after this info I am edging towards Ultimate Upgrade unless someone wants to buy me the full. I wonder how PSS works?

[User6060]

No waaay, this new system sucks :(

What's a PSS call?

[Gstar]

Greatttt! Now it's back to the drawing board! :(

[Denis W. Veteran]

@MS's reply: Argh.

No waaay, this new system sucks :(

What's a PSS call?

PSS call = Product Support Services call?

[fkid]

I don't see why everyone is all upset about this. It makes sense because the Upgrade version of Vista is far less expensive than the Full version. So, if you want to clean install after you have upgraded to Vista already, installing XP again and waiting however long that takes shouldn't really be that much of a bother. Just be patient, that's all. Once you have XP installed, you can do the clean Vista install again right away. Just a little bit more wait time and you have to keep your XP disc and not throw it out. Would be nice to be able to clean install after you have Vista with the Upgrade disc, since if you have Vista you must've already upgraded from an XP OS you have, thus validating your license and all. However, it's not that big a deal that this method is not possible. Just a bit more of a hassle, but all you need really is a bit more time and patience. You really shouldn't need to format all that often anyway, unless you're silly or an idiot. Doing that 2, 3 or 4 times a year shouldn't be that big of a deal for anyone so stop whining and be happy you saved money with the Upgrade edition or just purchase the Full version.

[Gstar]

Yeah you're right - it comes down to the hassle of having to install XP first before installing Vista. Thankfully formatting/reinstalling the OS isn't something I do on a regular basis, so it's not the end of the world, just "grrr!!" :yes:

I don't see why everyone is all upset about this. It makes sense because the Upgrade version of Vista is far less expensive than the Full version. ... Doing that 2, 3 or 4 times a year shouldn't be that big of a deal for anyone so stop whining and be happy you saved money with the Upgrade edition or just purchase the Full version.

[IceDogg]

That and some people think (myself included) that a fresh install is better (more stable) then upgraded install. I think that's probably the bigger reason so many will/are upset about this. If it's true, which I'm not saying it is or isn't, because I don't know.

[gaurav]

Can't you download a full version and then use your legit key to continue?

Or is that key going to work only with the upgrade DVD?

[Japaja]

@gaurav

There is only ONE identical DVD for all versions of Vista!

[kingroach]

Can't you download a full version and then use your legit key to continue?

Or is that key going to work only with the upgrade DVD?

I was thinking the same .. My college will probaby sell upgrade version of vista business cd for $50. I can install vista business without key ( 30 day trial).. then I could just activate with the new key..

[u2_storm]

I'm just waiting until I can get my mucky hands on a legal copy when its been out a month although I've used RC1 & RC2 and just havn't seen anything thats made me go WOW, ok the side bar is nice but thats been an add on in windows xp with 3rd party software for ages, I think when DX10 comes out I will spash. but I hate having to upgrade as I like a clean copy of Windows on my machine not all the difference users with .000 that XP does....