Why Why Why

[JimJimJim]

Originally posted by configure

What will happen if every one on Earth stop believing on their God? What will happen when suddenly the word "sin" was taken away and you do not have to feel guilty at yourself after comitted a crime? I don't know about you, but I surely wouldn't want to live in that world. Just my 2 cents :p

Well put :-)

Most kids nowadays beleive in ockult things, like ghosts and demons......some even prefer to say that they rather beleive in the devil than god!!?? This is taken from a swedish magazine, and it?s so true........Why this fear of beleiving in god??

I really envy those who have strong faith.....

[Toxicfume Veteran]

Originally posted by Neobond

Lets just leave it with the thought that if God "was" why does God allow the self-desctruction of man and his beautiful planet?

Well..what i think is that...uhmm..alright there's a big explanation to it which i don't really know, but putting it in a nutshell...

God made "bad" to value the "good", "bad" was created..so there could be a certain value given to the "good" performed by Humans, who are under "Free Will" provided by God.

If everything was good, wouldn't the whole nature be compatible within itself? but no, animals kill each other, there competition between and within every species..this is where God puts the provided, "Free Will" into action.

..Now that might be wrong, but it's just what i think.

And about how we began... I'm not sure if God created us or executed the big-bang, but sometimes I have a feeling that...

Humans are experiments being undertaken by the aliens.

God might have been just a myth created so that there is a "Constant" to good things.

[Osiris]

Toxicfume I am inclined to agree with you partially. The concept of god is merely a mechanism to steer social values in a favourable direction. We have instincts on what is right and wrong, the concept of heaven and hell and god, merely regulate and enforce this point.

Have any of you actually read the bible? its a story told by man, and created by man to renefoce the point again.

The only truth is the truth that man is infact god.

No alien gods

No Immortal Omni Poweful gods

Since Humans created the concept of god, And since predomoninatly humans have been the only species on this planet to date capable of controlling there own fate, and altering planetary systems, it seems only logical that man inessence is god.

But then again people have to have something to believe in, everyone has a hero they look upto or rolemodel so why not a mythical omni poweful presence such as a god.

I think we can all agree that this is the timeless debate. If humans ever created a conspiracy or myth to fool people, this is certainly the mother of all mnyths, since the existence of god cannot be proven, nor disproven. Except for the question Who made god?

[Arpit]

God is just a synonym for conscious. I've been told that when involving God, do not use logics, because then nothing makes sense whatsoever. If I exclude the logics, then the only possible answer is that it's the conscious.

Some people go to confessions so they can get off whatever was bothering them from their mind, by apologizing to God, and asking for his forgiveness, why?...because 'He's watching at all times'...I highly doubt that. It's just their self-conscious, which makes them realize that they've done something wrong, and they just want someone to know that, someone who's known by all, and looked upto by most.

Why do they have all these hymns for God, if the basic idea is just to remember him from your heart? Why do people go to church, if God is everywhere?...*sorry, logic again*

As for the purpose of us on this Earth...same as every other organisms'...to survive, via best possible ways.

I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to Hell?

[Arpit]

Oh by the way, I'm an athiest but I envy people who have strong faith...;)

[Guest shardie]

Interresting indeed.......

Everyone seems to believe that God does NOT exist... As for me I believe that there ************** a God, and I have ALL the proof for it.

If I were to reveal my beliefs with proof, then I will be challenged by you. BUT will you be willing to ACCEPT the the proof if convinced? Thats the important question.

Just what if there REALLY is a God? Deep down "HONESTLY" do we believe? We always ask the question WHY? What if they could be answered, then again will we accept.

One puzzling thing - "When we find some tribe lost away for centuries in the mountains, of whom NEVER had contact with the "civilized" man in order for him to be hear of the Bible or God.....WHY does even him have a belief in a GOD."

Who planted that INSTINCT there to begin with. Evolution, I doubt it. Why do humans only want to pray when the animals and man evolved from the same thing.?

Answer these questions.......before you look at your beliefs.

What type of answers are we looking for in order to believe in a God - Should the answers make sense? Then will we believe?

I ask again - Are we willing to accept?

[Toxicfume Veteran]

Ok, this is my response to some of the points in your post, shardie:

One puzzling thing - "When we find some tribe lost away for centuries in the mountains, of whom NEVER had contact with the "civilized" man in order for him to be hear of the Bible or

God.....WHY does even him have a belief in a GOD."

Well...I think it's these Tribes who Started the belief in God. And civilized man used to be a part of these Tribes, so the belief in God has begun from these Tribes...and has been spread around within the civilized man when it got seperated from these tribes.

Who planted that INSTINCT there to begin with. Evolution, I doubt it. Why do humans only want to pray when the animals and man evolved from the same thing.?

INTINCT...hmm..I don't think praying is an instinct built within man. If a child is born, and no one tells him a word about God, praying, etc.., and when he grows up, will he just begin to pray when time comes? I guess not until he is taught something about God.

I think it's more of a social influence being put in man, since the beginning of the belief from the Tribes.

As for me, i'm 50-50 in the belief...but i do follow religious ceremonies as i'm told to, etc.

Corrections Accepted :p

[Toxicfume Veteran]

Why the inactivity in this thread?!

come on guys...lets get the discussion going :)

[Glowstick]

I say there is no god. Currently, I am right with this, because noone ever saw him and he never showed a sign. So it's the duty of the believers to prove his existance. Because it's not my duty to prove the non-existance of something that is not there or has never showed up. Also the Bible is no proof, it's just a mere book. And it is NOT inerrant like most hardcore christians try to claim. A book is errant. Especially if it has been transmitted orally for some hundred years and then has run thru lots of translations.

Then, why do so much people believe in a god? Many people tend to believe mystical stuff, might it be a god, deity or some esoteric stuff . A christian believes in his god, but condemns e.g. a muslim in believing in Allah or some people in Heavens Gate believing in some Alien coming rescuing them. Ok, Heavens Gate has been proven wrong, being a hoax. But same could go for christianism, it could be a 2000yr old hoax. Why do people believe in it? Because their parents pushed their kids into that direction since they've been born, made them believe it from very young age. And only few really do THINK about it. I've turned away from any faith with young age. I think it was around being 8-9 years, because the stuff in the bible sounded stupid to me. And with growing up I thinked more and more logical about it, which finally led me to classify all the god stuff as bull. Tho I don't criticize anyone else in believing. But for me it is bull, my "religion" is science.

Also, why is everything "perfect" or why are we concious? Anthrophic principle, we are just concious because the development of the universe has allowed life to exist. You won't be able to discuss this if the universe had evolved in another way. You wouldn't notice you don't exist.

(On a sidenote, go search on Google for Multiversum).

[Guest shardie]

God Bless America ...... do you believe in this too.

[Guest shardie]

Reply to:

So it's the duty of the believers to prove his existance.

So Tom, if one was to prove that God exists, what kind of prove would convince you? Scientific proof, Geological proof, Biological Proof, Historical proof.

My question still stands that NO-ONE has answered.

"Will you be willing to ACCEPT, or will PRIDE overtake you"

To me....these more PROOF that God exists than not.

[Guest shardie]

Reply to

INTINCT...hmm..I don't think praying is an instinct built within man. If a child is born, and no one tells him a word about God, praying, etc.., and when he grows up, will he just begin to pray when time comes? I guess not until he is taught something about God.

I dont believe this cos, well yes a child won't instictively start praying without the knowledge of a God BUT (This has been proven that) when he grows up (even if isolated from the world), he will eventually believe in some sort of a creator and ask the question "who made all of this, the sun, moon, plants, etc. ESPECIALLY if he comes from a world totally in touch with nature.

Scientists believe in theory and proof BUT dont you think that all these things (the beautifuls stars at night, the perfect colour of a sunset, the solestical heavens, the balance of nature........) are all the SIGNS a PERFECT CREATOR. More likely than just a mere theory of evolutionary LUCK.

[Guest shardie]

Reply to:

Why the inactivity in this thread?!

Maybe the inactivity cos of the lack of knowledge.....?

[Guest shardie]

We seem to know more about Windows XP than GOD. Take away ALL the technology and throw us back into the world where we have to cut trees for firewood, fetch water from lakes, grow our own veggies & fruit, etc.......THEN we will wonder and see the beauty of all this that was created by a .......... hmmmm evolutionary LUCK?

Oh well, some might call Bill Gates God cos of the wonderful OS created....... he he he ye right

[OldSchool]

The wonderful thing about countries such is American and Canada and New Zealand is that people can believe in what they choose to believe in. While many Americans choose to belive in fame and fortune there are many followers of God. I choose not to believe in God because it all sounds a load of rubbish. The Stroy of Noah makes a wonderful childrens book and so do most of the stories in the Bible, a collection of fairytales.

The funny thing about people that belive in god is that they can take their belief in any way they wish to interpret the written word. Strange indeed.

There is so much that could be said about the lunacy of christianity but I will instead place a link which provides much of what I believe. "Its not easy being an atheist"

[Steven P. Administrators]

hmm, people seem to forget that there are stars and beautiful sunsets etc etc because life waited for the right moment and balance to actually start. Our planet has been here millions and millions of years. I think its highly hypocritical to say that it was put here for man. because in the short space of time we have been here we have been succesful in almost wiping out all life on this wonderful planet.

Nature will only work if the conditions are right, call it what you will, a miracle or plain science, the fact is no "creator" took 7 days to build this planet and put Adam and Eve on it. It took a whole lot longer.

Plus I find it almost amusing that Return of Christ after 2000 years never took place. By the book he should be here already.

Like Tom says a story told over 2000 years is bound to get mis-interpreted along the way.

[Phil Gates]

you want to know the REAL reason? you see, the F.B.I. has been holding it back for all these years..... it's Neowin.net, and God said it was good.

[Captain Phatty]

"There is more evidence of the existence of UFOs than the existence of God, yet if you mention that you believe in UFOs, you're considered a kook. Whereas if you believe in this man in the sky, you're on the right path."

- George Carlin (Maxim Magazine, June 2001)

[Steven P. Administrators]

Its highly possible that an alien species discovered this Planet in much the same way Columbus discovered America and left behind its own dna/life in some form.

Its something that is worth thinking about.. Top 'o the food chain Man who doesnt really seem to fit in anywhere in natures game plan.

[Glowstick]

shardie: The type of proof depends on him. He shall e.g. do some mystical stuff like it's written in the bible. Stuff that can't be produced by men. That would qualify him MAYBE (remember... Copperfield).

But as Neobond said, the universe doesn't look at all like it has been created for us. All this creator/god thing is an old belief that still relies on old facts, means when people still thought the earth was flat and had borders. With todays knowledge you know that the earth is just a trabant of a sun in billions of billions of stars in the universe. Worse than a grain of sand on a beach. Makes the whole god thing look stupid, doesn't it?

Also as said before, if the universe would have developed else, you wouldn't even be here to discuss it. It's hard to understand, because you can't imagine the other case easily.

--edit--

Hah, a real challenge now, for everyone who believes in god... especially to you shardie.

Why do you believe in a god?

Gimme a real reason. No unreasoned answer. I want a real useful explanation. "There must be a creator" or "This can't be a hazard" do not qualify. I want reasons from your side.

Because I believed in this stuff because my parents and family did make me believe so. Luckily I got away with young age.

Just tell me a reason, why you believe in this. A reasonable one. And think it throughoughly before answering.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

i thought that id add my 2 cents.

personally, I see no reason to beleive in (a) god. Whether he be Jehovah (i read somewhere thats his real name), or Jesus, its as someone pointed out before, told though the ages by man.

This includes the bible, its nothing more then a story. Heres my proof:

The very first line says "in the beginning, god created the stars, heaven and earth" or something to that effect. Who was around apart from god to document that? Adam and Eve if they were indeed the first 2 humans on earth, would of been 2 inept retards.

They would of have no idea what anything was, and just like a newborn baby, would have to be taught even the basics of how to walk, and talk etc. Even if god existed and taught them, logic would suggest they would of taken hundreds of years to even evolove to the state of mental awareness. (i say hundreds of years because if theyre the only 2 ppl alive, then they wouldnt have anyone before them to guide them on life)

if you read the bible, and you still beleive in god, you will find that it contradicts itself all the way though it. eg: the part where god says you cant eat the apple or you will goto hell or something, and then the devil just comes straight out and says "dont eat that, or you will become evil"

why would god be so cryptic, and the devil, the heart of all evil, be so straight forward and truthful? just something to think about.

Frankly, i cant see the point in living your life devoting everything to a thing that may or may not exist.

I beleive in myself, theres my god. Who made my god? My mother and father.

You see my point im sure. Another quick thing, if god is this multidimentional, all knowing, all seeing thing, if to make me and you truely beleive, why cant i just say to myself, "show yourself to me god and ill beleive"... why wont he appear to make me beleive?

why doesnt he appear to the hardcore christians and catholics? I bet the pope hasnt seen god as a human in all his life.

I close with this, just beleive in yourself. doing that will mean you would become alot more powerful then any god. doing so you can become anything, not beleiveing in youself, then you should beleive in a god, because then you will have something to hold onto.

cheers im goin to bed now :)

[Toxicfume Veteran]

Originally posted by shardie

[i dont believe this cos, well yes a child won't instictively start praying without the knowledge of a God BUT (This has been proven that) when he grows up (even if isolated from the world), he will eventually believe in some sort of a creator and ask the question "who made all of this, the sun, moon, plants, etc. ESPECIALLY if he comes from a world totally in touch with nature.

If you had read carefully, you'd see that i said "when he grows up", not when he is a child, so what i actually meant..even when he grows up, he won't suddenly start praying or have a belief in some creator. Eventhough you said it is proven.

Yes, he might have the questions like.. who created what, and why? but i don't beleive he'll "Beleive" in "some sort of creator".

No.

Scientists believe in theory and proof BUT dont you think that all these things (the beautifuls stars at night, the perfect colour of a sunset, the solestical heavens, the balance of nature........) are all the SIGNS a PERFECT CREATOR. More likely than just a mere theory of evolutionary LUCK.

I don't really beleive what is 'PERFECT' to us is "ACTUALLY" Perfect.

We might see "the beautifuls stars at night, the perfect colour of a sunset, the solestical heavens, the balance of nature........" as beautiful, perfect, orderly, etc...but actually it could be just another ugly, imperfect, random stuff.

[Toxicfume Veteran]

Prick and Tom: both of you got some nice statements, facts and logic there...

wholeheartedly agreed. :)

[Glowstick]

Thank you, toxic! :D

Scientists believe in theory and proof BUT dont you think that all these things (the beautifuls stars at night, the perfect colour of a sunset, the solestical heavens, the balance of nature........) are all the SIGNS a PERFECT CREATOR. More likely than just a mere theory of evolutionary LUCK.

I seem to have overseen this one.

Perfect creator? Signs? Again, anthrophic principle: If it WOULDN'T BE like THAT, you wouldn't be able to see the stars, the color of a sunset (tho I don't know what's so perfect to its color, it's just a light refraction thing). Also if there would be no "balance of the nature", you and I wouldn't be there. It's no perfect sign at all, it's just a fact/coincidence which allows you to live.

Do I need to tell you where you come from? Approximately 300000 years after the big bang, only hydrogen existed which after longtime formed first stars which started to burn. That hydrogen burned into helium. After a these stars have been burned out, due to gravity the helium was started to burn and created heavier matter like carbon, oxygen etc. (It took multiple matter collapses, coz fusioning helium can't create any heavy matter) It took a couple of billion years to get all the matter you know by now. It's cosmological evolution. If that process didn't happen, you also wouldn't live now. I see the question coming up "Why is the sun still a hydrogen sun?" Noone ever claimed that all hydrogen burned up after the bigbang, hydrogen stars popped up longtime after the heavier matter has been created and still do in other galaxies.

Also, evolution is the process where genetic defects show it's luck or not. Evolution is all about genetic mutations. If the mutations are advantageous, you're going to survive, if they're not, you're going to die. Evolution has been taken place long time enough on earth. For your interest, the human differs in only 3% of an ape regarding genetic material.

So then you're going to notice why humans would pray and animals not. Well, it's easy, the human is able to think more and able to do way more complexer processes, because the evolution spent the human a big efficient brain. And the praying the human is doing is just a mere ritual which developed during the early humanity, because the humans were unable to explain different phenomenons. Imagine you being in 1000BC and are fearing of a thunderstorm. These days you know how it happens, but 1000BC it was a miracle. Then it needed just someone who claimed that it must be a higher being, and everyone believed it, because it sounded reasonable that time. So since then people were admiring some higher being. Parents taught their kids of that higher being and made them to pray at it too. This process has been happening till today. You just believe it because you have been taught so since you've been born. See? That's the way a religion and a god develop!

[sOma]

I think that perhaps we were put here on earth by an advanced civilization from another planet conducting some kind of experiment? At that time, we were all probably very ape like, and perhaps they just didn?t have the patience to stay here and wait for us to evolve? or maybe we were just too dumb for them, and they gave up? or perhaps we were too violent? If you look back at ancient drawings on cave walls, you will see many images depicting violence, and murder? and I believe there are some images that appeared to represent flying crafts in the sky, which might be the proof that we need in order to believe that beings from another planet have been here?

I don?t know if our minds are capable of understanding the mystery of life? We are capable of understanding a lot, but it is possible that there are things that can?t be understood by the human brain? just as there are things that dogs, cats, and other animals can never understand? for example, they are not capable of understanding death, or knowing that they are going to die one day?

As for the bible, I think it is just a very outdated book that is useless now? Because there are many civilized cultures that have laws against things like murder, and theft? I think heaven and hell were just a representation of prison, and freedom? created by man to scare other people from commiting crimes? During those times, humans learned things from stories? those stories aren?t necessarily real? they were just stories meant to teach us something? We were not as intelligent then as we are now? we are now capable of learning things without fictional stories behind them, so the earlier question about what would happen when we all stop believing in God, and the word ?sin? is taken away can easily be answered? The word ?sin? has already been replaced by the word ?illegal? and just because the word ?sin? is gone doesn?t mean that we will have no morals, or no sense of right and wrong? We don?t need religion to remind us of what is right and wrong.

I do think there is a possibility that a god, or gods could exist? I?m not really an atheist? I am open to the idea of gods? and have often wondered if maybe there is one god for each solar system? I believe in reincarnation, and that we are all here to learn? in each life I think we are just supposed to learn as much as we can? and I think that also includes the power to use your mind for things other than what most of us use them for now? like maybe moving objects with our minds, traveling through time? I?ve actually heard of people who have had out of body time traveling experiences? But most importantly, I think telepathy is possible, and one day will make language obsolete, and useless? I think when we get to that point, we reincarnate into a spiritual being? not as a physicially living being, because we would have no need or use for the bodies we have now? This theory may sound weird or insane to you, but is it really any weirder than believing in a God or places like heaven or hell? Most of us are guilty of believing in things we?re not sure exist.

I really don?t think we will ever see an end to destruction, hate, and violence? It?s nice to think about, but for as long as we have been around, we have had differences and resolved them with violence? I think it?s pretty likely that man will destroy this planet before our own sun does... probably with a nuclear bomb.

If God gave humans free will to do what they wish, then why do so many people believe that God has sent sons here, and angels here, and created a flood? Why do you think he would do those things then, but not now? Is the world not more destructive now than it was before the bible was written? We have better weapons, and better tools of destruction than we had then? We have the capability to eliminate life on this planet? So, Why did he help then, but not now?

Many Christians believe in the bible so strongly, but I am surprised to see that some would disregard the bible when we debate things like the destruction on this planet, and simply say ?God has given us free will, and we are on our own?. I don?t find that to be very logical? A comment like that pretty much goes against quite a few stories in the bible, does it not?