Sony: 360

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

But the lack of a guaranteed HDD means devs can't cache information and the such as they did with the first Xbox.

Yes games do take a quality hit, but I think the number of games which require it are in single digits.

Ironman273, play Oblivion without the HDD :p

[bangbang023 Veteran]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=111775

The lack of a guaranteed HDD causes problems. Like I said, it can be frustrating. Sony took the much wiser approach by making every system have an HDD. It simplifies things and lets devs develop for one setup and not two.

[magik]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=111775

The lack of a guaranteed HDD causes problems. Like I said, it can be frustrating. Sony took the much wiser approach by making every system have an HDD. It simplifies things and lets devs develop for one setup and not two.

Sony would have you think that. But, realistically, the reason why every PS3 comes with a HDD is that it is essentially necessary. Data cannot be streamed off of a Blu-Ray disc as fast as it can off of a DVD and because of that, it is necessary for PS3 games to cache data to the HDD for faster access.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Sony would have you think that. But, realistically, the reason why every PS3 comes with a HDD is that it is essentially necessary. Data cannot be streamed off of a Blu-Ray disc as fast as it can off of a DVD and because of that, it is necessary for PS3 games to cache data to the HDD for faster access.

I don't care if the reasons were to make pretty flowers for kittens around the world, it winds up being a smart decision and easier for devs and consumers. What Microsoft should have done was use standard HDD's, like Sony, to cut costs, both initially and in the long run. Custom parts only add to per unit costs and, thus, end up with us paying more. They may have been able to dip the cost a little further below $400, then, and appeased both sides of the 360 market.

[magik]

I don't care if the reasons were to make pretty flowers for kittens around the world, it winds up being a smart decision and easier for devs and consumers. What Microsoft should have done was use standard HDD's, like Sony, to cut costs, both initially and in the long run. Custom parts only add to per unit costs and, thus, end up with us paying more. They may have been able to dip the cost a little further below $400, then, and appeased both sides of the 360 market.

What are you talking about? The Xbox 360 HDD is a 2.5" Laptop HDD. Seems pretty standard to me. :rofl:

[MrCobra]

I can't believe he says "I feel sorry for the guy who bought an Xbox", this is just classic coming from Sony, who have crapped over their users time and time again.

Sony can feel sorry for me all they want. At least the system I have has games.

Sony turned in to a sh*t company about 15 years ago and they will always continue to be.

[Ironman273]

And when you're paying $100 more for an extra 20Gb the Elite seems like a bargain!

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Here is a question for you: If the PS3 was an overwhelming success from launch and was continuously sold out, would Sony support the PS2 as much as they do now?

Why wouldnt they?

It's a hugely successful console with lots of AAA titles just released in the past year or so and more just out.

They also promised a 10 year life cycle and are so far keeping that promise :whistle:

Also as for my viewpoint on a HDD, its pretty much necessary for every next gen console.

The "casual gamers" line gets thrown around faaar too much. People know how to download trailers, extra maps, extra content on their console's nowadays. Or at least 95% of gamers do.

[StandingInAlley]

Xbox 360 is definitely ruling the market as of now with just too many killer exclusives which Sony's PS3 lacks. Sony needs to understand that Game titles with exclusives sell a console. Its also amazing how Microsoft keeps on adding new features to Xbox 360, for example IPTV coming to the 360 during the holiday time.

I just think Microsoft is taking the right step in every direction and Sony is just getting jealous

[bangbang023 Veteran]

What are you talking about? The Xbox 360 HDD is a 2.5" Laptop HDD. Seems pretty standard to me. :rofl:

I guess that casing, the fact that only certain model drives work, and the $180 cost for 120gb of space is extremely standard. The fact is, it costs money to manufacture every nonstandard case and that cost gets placed on us consumers with added fluff just because there's no alternatives.

[AlphaPrime]

I guess that casing, the fact that only certain model drives work, and the $180 cost for 120gb of space is extremely standard. The fact is, it costs money to manufacture every nonstandard case and that cost gets placed on us consumers with added fluff just because there's no alternatives.

The case is only really costs Microsoft a few dollars to make. Otherwise, the 2.5" HDD is pretty much standard, as in, it doesn't cost MS any more than any other laptop drive would. They would have saved money if they used a 3.5" HDD, but I guess that would have made the system a bit bigger. I still wish that the Core had a HDD (or at least something cheap like 2GB of internal flash memory) so developers could utilize the storage to it's maximum potential, but what's done is done.

[magik]

I guess that casing, the fact that only certain model drives work, and the $180 cost for 120gb of space is extremely standard. The fact is, it costs money to manufacture every nonstandard case and that cost gets placed on us consumers with added fluff just because there's no alternatives.

Oh yea, the massive costs of that ingeniously designed plastic casing is just too much and is raising the bottom line by hundreds of dollars. :rolleyes:

[HawkMan]

I guess that casing, the fact that only certain model drives work, and the $180 cost for 120gb of space is extremely standard. The fact is, it costs money to manufacture every nonstandard case and that cost gets placed on us consumers with added fluff just because there's no alternatives.

Do you see your average consumer replacing a HDD on a PS3, despite them making t easy. while on the 360 70 year old aunt selma with coke bottles for glasses anda single celled orgnism for a brain, will be able to replace the HDD.

And it helps ake sure customers buy a product guaranteed to work on the consile and has been quality tested. as opposed to stufing in any old Maxtor disk wich we all know will die in a matter of months at best :)

[EduardValencia]

I prefer the 360 than a usless expensive brick called Playstation 3

[Lexcyn]

What are you talking about? The Xbox 360 HDD is a 2.5" Laptop HDD. Seems pretty standard to me. :rofl:

I think he meant standard as in user-upgradeable off-the-shelf type deal. I remember seeing someone from Microsoft say they have strict requirements for the HD they use and they all have to match the same model numbers, etc. So I wouldn't say they are using a 'standard' HD. They are using a customized HD. :p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

And it helps ake sure customers buy a product guaranteed to work on the consile and has been quality tested. as opposed to stufing in any old Maxtor disk wich we all know will die in a matter of months at best :)

:no: I'd much rather be able to put my own 3rd party purchased drive in than pay the premium prices MS charge. (I'd think the same way if it was Sony charging for a hard drive)

But thats just me, if you're happy to pay more, that fine :yes:

Oh and I wouldn't just stuff "any old drive in", I'd buy a good one.

I prefer the 360 than a usless expensive brick called Playstation 3

That's great, thanks for telling us :laugh:

[magik]

I think he meant standard as in user-upgradeable off-the-shelf type deal. I remember seeing someone from Microsoft say they have strict requirements for the HD they use and they all have to match the same model numbers, etc. So I wouldn't say they are using a 'standard' HD. They are using a customized HD. :p

No, it's still a standard HDD, but it is signed and verified by the Xbox 360 upon boot. All the HDD have the same model number because Microsoft picked one model to manufacture, which adds to the security. It is not customized in any way physically, so no, it's still a standard laptop HDD. :)

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

No, it's still a standard HDD, but it is signed and verified by the Xbox 360 upon boot. All the HDD have the same model number because Microsoft picked one model to manufacture, which adds to the security. It is not customized in any way physically, so no, it's still a standard laptop HDD. :)

But I think the main point is, you can't stick your own OEM purchased hard drive in a 360 for example.

(correct me if im wrong but im 99.9% sure you can't)

So in a sense it is a "custom" drive that is required.

[magik]

But I think the main point is, you can't stick your own OEM purchased hard drive in a 360 for example.

(correct me if im wrong but im 99.9% sure you can't)

So in a sense it is a "custom" drive.

You can't stick your own OEM purchased Xbox 360 game disc into the DVD drive and have it play (without prior firmware mods)... does that mean that Xbox 360 DVD discs are 'customized'? No, they're still standard DVD discs, just with 'custom' digital content on them. The same goes for the HDD.

[Spartan_X]

But the lack of a guaranteed HDD means devs can't cache information and the such as they did with the first Xbox.

you don't need massive amounts of memory for that purpose, when the system was designed every draft of the tech spec was passed around to some key game studios for evalutation, and they all agreed with the idea of having a modular system where you can add and remove components/features without impacting game perfomance/design. they also agreed to use part of the 512mb of memory to create a ram drive for file caching (which is faster) with or without a HDD present. it was left of each game studio to optimize their titles for HDD use and that's why you don't see them bitching about it and the only few that do so are the ones that didn't take part in the design process... :p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

You can't stick your own OEM purchased Xbox 360 game disc into the DVD drive and have it play (without prior firmware mods)... does that mean that Xbox 360 DVD discs are 'customized'? No, they're still standard DVD discs, just with 'custom' digital content on them. The same goes for the HDD.

Bad comparison.

You're comparing a piece of software to a piece of hardware.

Also there is no such thing as an OEM game unless you mean a copied one.

I know the drives are physically the same, I've never debated that. They are though customized differently... making them in a sense "custom".

The PS3 can accept any standard drive and doesn't need them to be "slightly modified" or "customized" to run.

In the end the big difference is saving ??? or $$$ in the long run, and having a larger amount of space without being restricted in choice.

Here: http://www.gamersreports.com/article/43/

PS3 with a 120GB drive.

[magik]

Bad comparison.

You're comparing a piece of software to a piece of hardware.

Also there is no such thing as an OEM game unless you mean a copied one.

I know the drives are physically the same, I've never debated that. They are though customized differently... making them in a sense "custom".

The PS3 can accept any standard drive and doesn't need them to be "slightly modified" or "customized" to run.

In the end the big difference is saving ??? or $$$ in the long run, and having a larger amount of space without being restricted in choice.

Here: http://www.gamersreports.com/article/43/

PS3 with a 120GB drive.

Yea, you're right, not a great 1:1 comparison, but you get what I'm saying.

Look, you're missing my point. I'm saying that it doesn't cost Microsoft much more to use the 2.5" Laptop HDD that the Xbox 360 currently comes with than it would for any bulk purchaser to do so. Tonly/i> difference is that the HDD is put in an enclosure and is digitally signed, just like all Xbox 360 Game Discs.

It's not like Microsoft created their own proprietary HDD for use on the 360, and therefore, the HDD is not 'custom'.

[Huleboeren]

Sony needs a complete overhaul of PR folks :p (Phil Harrison is okay tho)

No, it's still a standard HDD, but it is signed and verified by the Xbox 360 upon boot. All the HDD have the same model number because Microsoft picked one model to manufacture, which adds to the security. It is not customized in any way physically, so no, it's still a standard laptop HDD. :)

I hope you know what Audioboxer meant and you're not just being an *** :/

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Yea, you're right, not a great 1:1 comparison, but you get what I'm saying.

Look, you're missing my point. I'm saying that it doesn't cost Microsoft much more to use the 2.5" Laptop HDD that the Xbox 360 currently comes with than it would for any bulk purchaser to do so. The only difference is that the HDD is put in an enclosure and is digitally signed, just like all Xbox 360 Game Discs.

It's not like Microsoft created their own proprietary HDD, and therefore, the HDD is not 'custom'.

Ok yeah, I see your point there!

The only thing im saying is the drive is "custom" when it comes to the consumer upgrading their 360 drive. Unlike the PS3 they can't go use any standard one - It must be an addon purchased from MS.

My point is it costs a lot more for the consumer.

Your point is it doesn't cost that much more for MS.

:laugh:

[Lexcyn]

Yea, you're right, not a great 1:1 comparison, but you get what I'm saying.

Look, you're missing my point. I'm saying that it doesn't cost Microsoft much more to use the 2.5" Laptop HDD that the Xbox 360 currently comes with than it would for any bulk purchaser to do so. The only difference is that the HDD is put in an enclosure and is digitally signed, just like all Xbox 360 Game Discs.

It's not like Microsoft created their own proprietary HDD for use on the 360, and therefore, the HDD is not 'custom'.

Since the HDD is not 'custom', why do they charge so much? I wouldn't care if it was cheaper but I mean, the 120GB here is $200. :s